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The Bear and the Dragon


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Or so he wanted.  But it is interesting that the United States not only picked up the pieces of the British Empire's spheres of influence, we also took over some of their foreign policy, whatevre FDR may have said to the contrary.

For example, it was British foreign policy (until they did their famous 180 spin at the beginning of WWI) to prop up the Sultan in Constantinople to keep the Russian navy out of the Mediterranean.  NATO included Turkey.  Also British policy for years to keep the Russians out of Afghanistan.  In 1979 the USSR invades and the US tries to boot the Soviets out.  There are some differences of course but the general idea is the same.

Edited by JamesHackerMP
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On 1/22/2017 at 2:43 PM, DogOnPorch said:

I'm not sure how up you are on the Russian Revolution and following Civil War...but many countries...including the UK...invaded Russia on the White side.

 

They lost.

And the Japanese kicked their ass. You have a point to this or are you just expressing your love and admiration for Russia because Trump does?

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11 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

Or so he wanted.  But it is interesting that the United States not only picked up the pieces of the British Empire's spheres of influence, we also took over some of their foreign policy, whatevre FDR may have said to the contrary.

For example, it was British foreign policy (until they did their famous 180 spin at the beginning of WWI) to prop up the Sultan in Constantinople to keep the Russian navy out of the Mediterranean.  NATO included Turkey.  Also British policy for years to keep the Russians out of Afghanistan.  In 1979 the USSR invades and the US tries to boot the Soviets out.  There are some differences of course but the general idea is the same.

Containment of an enemy to prevent them from growing stronger is not a new idea.

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19 minutes ago, Argus said:

And the Japanese kicked their ass. You have a point to this or are you just expressing your love and admiration for Russia because Trump does?

 

Uhhhhmmmm....having Volga German roots, I have a weeeeeeee bit of affinity for the 'Old Country' even though fascists like Stalin and Hitler destroyed it. Now the vast majority of Volga Germans live in Canada, USA and some parts of South America.

Think Mennonite farmers with good irrigation skills. Often mistaken for Jews by the slow-witted...and SS men.

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On 1/24/2017 at 5:21 PM, Argus said:

Containment of an enemy to prevent them from growing stronger is not a new idea.

No of course not.  But it's interesting how the exact spheres of influence were taken over by the US as the UK's imperial power declined.  Although, the British were protecting the "Indian Empire" by keeping the Russians out of Afghanistan; the United States was protecting its Pakistani ally, rather than the non-aligned Indian republic (though "Pakistan" and Bangladesh were originally part of that Indian Empire, so you get my drift.)  There was also the US support of regimes in Indonesia and Malyasia--formerly Malaya and British Borneo in that area. Let's not forget our support of the Shah of Iran.  In the early 20th century a treaty between the Tsar and the UK divvied up Iran/Persia into a Russian zone, a neutral zone and a British zone.  Our support of the gulf states (Kuwait, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain) was taking over Britain's securing of its "lifeline" between India and the Suez Canal.  To an extent you're right: it's part of a very old game.  But nonetheless, we took over Britain's containment in all but name, to an even greater extent.

Orwell predicted in "1984": "with the absorption of Europe by Russia, and the British Empire by the United States, two of the superstates, Eurasia and Oceania, had already come in to being."  (I'm trying to remember that quote from years ago, so it may not be precise, but I did read 1984 four times.)  A dystopian novel like that uses exaggeration: he didn't mean that the US would literally invade British territories and add them to its own empire; but would "absorb" the British Empire's [former] spheres of influence.

Russia has always wanted a weak China rather than a strong one.  One of the causes of tension between the Chinese commies and the Russian commies was Stalin's initial support of Chiang Kai-Shek.  He didn't so much care about world Socialism as he did about Russian national security.  Play the Chinese warlords off against each other and keep China weak, which is also part of Russia's "warm water port" strategy.

If the Russians and the Chinese ever patched up their differences, it would likely lead to World War III.  It's in our interests to keep the two antagonistic toward each other.

Edited by JamesHackerMP
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On 1/21/2017 at 3:48 PM, JamesHackerMP said:

Our new president wants to cozy up to Russia and screw China.

I have to admit, as much as I dislike him, that he's at least grasped one fundamental truth: you cannot screw both Russia and China.  It's one or the other.

So it brings up an important question? What to do about China as well as Russia?

I question the whole idea.  You've got no idea if he wants to cozy up to Russia and screw China.  What he's saying and doing right now is simply opening moves.  His real agenda could be revealed down the road, or never at all, as Obama's agenda was.

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Just now, sharkman said:

I question the whole idea.  You've got no idea if he wants to cozy up to Russia and screw China.  What he's saying and doing right now is simply opening moves.  His real agenda could be revealed down the road, or never at all, as Obama's agenda was.

Possibly.

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To : the Hon. James Hacker, MP, DogOnP, Argus,BushCh,SmallC, EyeB et al

From: Zionist Illuminati 

In regard to the above discussion I believe Trump has made it clear, he is not exactly subtle that he considers the US at economic war with China, which he considers the no.1 foreign affairs issue  that negatively impacts on the US,even higher than Islamic terrorism and Islamic and Mexican immigration.

He also has made it crystal clear the protectionist policies of Japan, South Korea and Europe, in particular Germany, especially in the car industry are smack dab on his radar. He has not been exactly subtle about it.

He has signaled the days of the US paying a price of unfair trade imbalance to be allowed military bases in the South Pacific, i.e., Japan, South Korea, Germany, etc. are over. He made that clear giving the finger to the TPP  and Frau Merkel of Germany..

Trump;s signal is that the EU,  China, South Korea and Japan can not rely on the US to sit back and allow it to make trade deficits on one sided car importing and exporting agreements. If I am BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, Mercedez-Benz, Kia-Hyundai, Mitsubishi, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Nissan, Suzuki, Yamaha, etc., I am looking very closely in the days to come to see what kind of tarrifs Trump puts up against them when they export to the US. Its not just China but the entire Pacific rim he seems to have his eyes set on.

Where Trump's weakness lies is if he wants to take on China which he does, he needs allies. The US can not go it alone. His best bet was a trade alliance with other Pacific rim nations to offset Chinese power. Instead he is forcing South Korea, Vietnam, Japan, maybe Indonesia, into closer trade ties with China if they feel abandon by the US.

China has hit a wall in terms of expansion. Its people are trying to leave. The distribution of wealth to generate economy is not happening, its staying condensed in the hands of a very small elite protected by the Communist Party which is a corporate monopoly. China is a massive scale example of a mining town totally dependent on one mine company for existence.

China has not diversified itself and has built its entire network on the ability to imitate existing products, making cheap rip off imitations because of its access to cheap labour and lack of healthy, safety, environmental regulations and its ability to control wages to keep production costs low. It also uses its government monopoly o keep the Chinese yen artificially low to assure trade balances in its favour.

Trump can't bring back business that depends on cheap labour. If he wants business back from China or Mexico, he will have to pay Americans to do their labour and he has no class in the US where people are willing to go back to the wages of the 50's.

He can scream all he wants about illegal Mexicans, but for many years American industry depended heavily on those illegal Mexicans to make its jeans, pick its crops and do all the menial hard labour at under minimum wage. Get rid of those people, who is his underclass? The people of the underclass who right now think he is their saviour are in for a rude awakening just like workers in Nazi Germany when Hitler posed himself as the defender of workers and even called his political party the National Socialist Workers Party. Trump cloaks himself in the same populist references as Hitler and Mussolini once did and his scapegoats right now are not Jews but Muslims and Mexicans and what we so far simply calls "losers" which is anyone who questions him.

Is he Hitler? No. He but he sure as hell sounds at times  like Mussolini-Stalin-Hitler all rolled into one. Then again he sounds like that because he's a throw back to the US in the 1920's when they were protectionist, and there was a strong rich elite that ran things and wished the US to be isolationist. His protectionist ad isolationist policies are not new. They come from the people he models himself after,  Henry Ford, Prescott Bush or the Vanderbilts or Rockefellers.  

He hasn't had time to grasp global economic transactions from the perspective of POTUS. Until now he has sat in an office, sheltered by advisors making all his decisions and sheltering him from his impulsive tantrums. He's been a loud farting figurehead who is only that. He's never run his own businesses.  People do it for him.He's just the face they puppet to make a brand name to sell. He's a marketing brand, nothing else. Now he thinks he can do the same at POTUS. Maybe he can. The President of the US is basically a titular head. He can't do much without agreement of the Senate and House of Representatives and the US Constitution clearly limits Presidential unilateral powers.

He also has a government so large, he can't possibly control it. At best he will get briefings he won't read and be insulated from 99% of government business each day while others will run it. Now and then he will take credit for something. The powers that be behind him will figure away to control him and either he will fart on command or they can arrange he die straining himself on the toilet like Elvis Presley. He plays ball or he's dead. He knows that. How far he can head out on the lake on his skates we shall see.

Now I do believe he genuinely wants business back in the US and will want to take China, Japan South Korea on. I also think however, he has no problems using the OIL Cartel as an ally. His decision to make his State Secretary the former head from EXXON clearly shows his first move. He's made it clear his ally when he takes on the world is the Oil Cartel. He will use placating the the oil cartel and promising that oil cartel wealth, the weapon or shield when he goes to war with China or other Pacific nations.

I see Trump being influenced and eventually controlled and directed by oil businessmen and multi-nationals that will gain back control of Venezuela's oil patches, and keep enough mega national corporation branch plants in the US to make Trump look good to the people and avoid a revolution.

If Trump gets back his oil from Venezuela, reduces oil competition with China and India by obtaining more natural gas and oil from Canada as well as Venezuela, and as he as threatened the US reassert itself in Iraq and not allow all its oil to go to China - he feels he can restore American power.

Putin's country is seen as a potential oil resource for the US in his plan to get back on an even playing field with Japan, China South Korea, and OPEC bullies Iran and Saudi Arabia not just China. I believe you will see a major oil deal with Russia. The expense will come for Ukraine which will be abandon by the US. I don't see Trump too concerned about the Baltic States or Ukraine or Georgia if it can get a good oil deal with Putin.

Let's hope Putin does not alienate Pacific allies to rally behind China. As for Mexico he could trigger their government to ally with drug cartels to get payback against Trump by making a mockery of the US border with tunnels.

 

Edited by Rue
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2 hours ago, Rue said:

...Let's hope Putin does not alienate Pacific allies to rally behind China. As for Mexico he could trigger their government to ally with drug cartels to get payback against Trump by making a mockery of the US border with tunnels.

 

Drug running tunnels are not just on the Mexican border....Canadians build them too.  

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On 1/27/2017 at 3:23 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Drug running tunnels are not just on the Mexican border....Canadians build them too.  

Absolutely and I doubt he is worried about it either. Trump clearly knows tunnels will always be there. He's concentrating on what he thinks is out of control overground movement. Its just he has a huge issue. Those illegals if they don't go into the US stay in Mexico and work in car plants that make cheaper cars than those in the US.

You shut out such people they will work for the same multi nationals outside the US and compete directly with the US.

That he has not thought through.

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

....You shut out such people they will work for the same multi nationals outside the US and compete directly with the US.

That he has not thought through.

 

I don't think he cares, and is driven by the singular issue of sovereignty and protecting borders when it comes to illegals.   Lots of people agree with him, car plants be damned.   The U.S. is not an open borders nation.

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