Toronto to introduce toll roads

[Boges]

It looks like Mayor John Tory is sick of his job. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tory-road-tolls-1.3865246

Quote

 

Tory will give an afternoon speech at the Toronto Region Board of Trade, according to a source in the mayor's office.

In moving toward road tolls, Tory will not proceed with other proposals to boost city revenue: A parking levy and the contentious suggestion to sell Toronto Hydro, the city-owned electrical utility. 

A road toll of $2 a vehicle could raise $200 million a year for city coffers, the source said, with all that money earmarked for transit expansion.

The source said the money will help fund two crucial big-ticket transit items:

• A new north-south subway line, also known as the Downtown Relief Line, to help ease pressure on Line 1, which operates well above capacity during rush hour. 
• Smart Track: Tory's plan to add stops in the city to existing regional rail lines as a way to ease the burden on the Toronto Transit Commission.

Tory will also push for a hotel tax to address the gap in operating revenue, the source said. The tax is expected to generate about $22 million a year that will go into general revenue. 

 

So that's upwards of $1,000 a year if you use the Gardiner or the DVP regularly for you commute. Even so, it's still cheaper than using the commuter train system. 

I think people will obviously use alternative routes, making those neighbourhoods traffic situation havoc. It's not like Toronto is an Island where there is only one way in or out. 

Many, if not most, large cities already have tolls like this. It's super expensive to drive into New York City. But with the amount of tax that we paid with the VAT and Excise taxes on gasoline, using this tactic does seem like overkill. 

I think people in the core will love this because the money raised will go towards improving their transit situation. BUT people in the immediate suburb areas that allowed Rob Ford to rise to power will probably resent this tax and overwhelmingly reject Tory in the next election. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Boges

[TimG]

28 minutes ago, Boges said:

So that's upwards of $1,000 a year if you use the Gardiner or the DVP regularly for you commute. Even so, it's still cheaper than using the commuter train system. 

What does parking cost per month in downtown TO? A bit more than $4 a day?
 

[Boges]

7 minutes ago, TimG said:

What does parking cost per month in downtown TO? A bit more than $4 a day?
 

It depends what situation you have with your employer, I'd imagine. That's a cost you already include into your budget though. It's $300+ a month to use the GO-Train from the 905. Many of those people already have cars to get to the station in the burbs though. I guess the cost of commuting is worth the extra pay you'll get working downtown as opposed to actually living downtown. 

It shouldn't be a deal-breaker to most people. And if you live in the burbs you don't have a say in this toll as these highways are 100% within Toronto's borders.

But if you're in the areas that have parallel arterial to these highways, you'll see massive gridlock as people look to avoid tolls. 

[GostHacked]

Taxpayers have already paid for the roads. Who benefits from these toll roads?

[Boges]

1 minute ago, GostHacked said:

Taxpayers have already paid for the roads. Who benefits from these toll roads?

It's to help the TTC close their budget gap. 

The Gardiner does need significant upgrades. 

[Bob Macadoo]

Don't worry I hear infrastructure can be paid for by finding efficiencies so Donald......Ford says.  Everyone who keeps saying this, deserves ole Doug when he's mayor.....got you a one stop subway extension the last time......might get a new bus shelter this time around.

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, Bob Macadoo said:

Don't worry I hear infrastructure can be paid for by finding efficiencies so Donald......Ford says.  Everyone who keeps saying this, deserves ole Doug when he's mayor.....got you a one stop subway extension the last time......might get a new bus shelter this time around.

Or property tax increases. 

Fine, toll the highways you own. Just don't expect people to want to come downtown for leisure activities and expect arterial roads to be gridlocked 24/7. 

[Bob Macadoo]

.....yes I'm sure the Entertainment district....with all those boring musicals, plays, concerts, clubs, sports, etc. will implode with the exodus.  Just like every other major city that has tolls for its downtown......oh wait.

[BC_chick]

A bit off-topic but how did the 407 ever work out for you locals?  What do you guys think of it in hindsight?

[Ash74]

I do not have a problem with the two dollar toll but this is just the very start. 2 bucks today will grow very rapidly to cover inflation,administration, upkeep,HST, cause they need a raise,want to build a monument to some woman,cause it rained last Tuesday, etc,etc

This is just the start of the tolls coming. There is already talk in other big cities of starting them up as well.

[Bob Macadoo]

On Friday, November 25, 2016 at 7:36 PM, BC_chick said:

A bit off-topic but how did the 407 ever work out for you locals?  What do you guys think of it in hindsight?

Those that can afford to use it.....do.  Those that can't.....complain.  It's being extended but that section not leased to the Spanish consortium.....run by gov't.  I assume the billing services will be contracted to 407 ETR though.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Bob Macadoo

[msj]

If the politicians of TO were smart, and they are not, they would read this about congestion charges in Stockholm:

 

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1629882

Who knows, maybe they could make it palpable for people. 

Edited November 27, 2016 by msj

[BC_chick]

7 hours ago, Bob Macadoo said:

Those that can afford to use it.....do.  Those that can't.....complain.  It's being extended but that section not leased to the Spanish consortium.....run by gov't.  I assume the billing services will be contracted to 407 ETR though.

I left the area right around the time it opened up, I always wondered how it ended up working out.  Thanks for replying.

Well, at least it takes some of the commuters off the 401.  Traffic around the GTA was so bad even way back then, I can't imagine what it's like now.  

[H10]

Studies seem to suggest that toll roads actually increase traffic.  Strangely, having lived in Oslo,Norway, I can say tolls did nothing to reduce traffic and for whatever reasons, residents told me it made it much much worse.

Toronto is going to get traffic armaggedeon because Norway has a far superior subway and train and public transit system that comes on time and is reliable.

 

Tolls will not fix the problem, if they did, then they would make it temprorary until enough was raised to fix the problem.  Tolls will rise over time and expand, they know people reject them, so the goal is to toll two highways now, tomorrow it will be the highway you use and then the major arteries.  You will not be able to drive to the store without paying tolls when they are done with it.

 

I hope John Tory loses re-election.

[Boges]

34 minutes ago, hernanday said:

Studies seem to suggest that toll roads actually increase traffic.  Strangely, having lived in Oslo,Norway, I can say tolls did nothing to reduce traffic and for whatever reasons, residents told me it made it much much worse.

Toronto is going to get traffic armaggedeon because Norway has a far superior subway and train and public transit system that comes on time and is reliable.

 

Tolls will not fix the problem, if they did, then they would make it temprorary until enough was raised to fix the problem.  Tolls will rise over time and expand, they know people reject them, so the goal is to toll two highways now, tomorrow it will be the highway you use and then the major arteries.  You will not be able to drive to the store without paying tolls when they are done with it.

 

I hope John Tory loses re-election.

They're not doing it to reduce congestion. Complete cash grab. 

[H10]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

They're not doing it to reduce congestion. Complete cash grab. 

Exactly, I hope council blocks him.

[Boges]

 I suspect he'd have canvassed council to ensure he had the votes already before announcing the plan. 

BUT there's no way this gets implemented before the 2018 election so many councillors may yet feel pressure to chance their minds. 

[Michael Hardner]

8 hours ago, Boges said:

They're not doing it to reduce congestion. Complete cash grab. 

Right.  So... balanced budget then right ?

[Boges]

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Right.  So... balanced budget then right ?

Municipalities are legally bound to balance their budgets every year. 

The goal for this is to fund transit expansion. 

One would think the accelerated expansion in Toronto's population, many of whom don't need to use a car, could assist in further infrastructure expansion. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Boges

[Ash74]

On November 29, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Boges said:

Municipalities are legally bound to balance their budgets every year. 

The goal for this is to fund transit expansion. 

One would think the accelerated expansion in Toronto's population, many of whom don't need to use a car, could assist in further infrastructure expansion. 

See Ontario's AG report on Metrolinx. 

I know the TTC is stretched to the limit and the most underfunded public system in a World class city but what in Ontario does run efficiently that is run by a government?

 

[H10]

There will be more taxes, rob ford was right about the gravy train, they will just roll out more and more road tolls.

[taxme]

On 11/24/2016 at 6:09 AM, Boges said:

It looks like Mayor John Tory is sick of his job. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tory-road-tolls-1.3865246

So that's upwards of $1,000 a year if you use the Gardiner or the DVP regularly for you commute. Even so, it's still cheaper than using the commuter train system. 

I think people will obviously use alternative routes, making those neighbourhoods traffic situation havoc. It's not like Toronto is an Island where there is only one way in or out. 

Many, if not most, large cities already have tolls like this. It's super expensive to drive into New York City. But with the amount of tax that we paid with the VAT and Excise taxes on gasoline, using this tactic does seem like overkill. 

I think people in the core will love this because the money raised will go towards improving their transit situation. BUT people in the immediate suburb areas that allowed Rob Ford to rise to power will probably resent this tax and overwhelmingly reject Tory in the next election. 

Why would the money received from tolls go towards transit? Let the people who use transit pay for it by raising the fares. 

I think that the people of Ontario should reject all politicians because all they seem to want to do these days is steal, steal and steal some more from the already overburdened taxpayer's. Instead of always trying to find new ways to tax people why not instead try cutting taxes for a change. They can start by downsizing the government where no doubt billions of tax dollars are pretty much blown by these phony and fake politicians who always tell us they care about our well being. If they do care then show it for a change. 

[H10]

8 hours ago, taxme said:

Why would the money received from tolls go towards transit? Let the people who use transit pay for it by raising the fares. 

I think that the people of Ontario should reject all politicians because all they seem to want to do these days is steal, steal and steal some more from the already overburdened taxpayer's. Instead of always trying to find new ways to tax people why not instead try cutting taxes for a change. They can start by downsizing the government where no doubt billions of tax dollars are pretty much blown by these phony and fake politicians who always tell us they care about our well being. If they do care then show it for a change. 

Why don't they make the developers who fund their campaigns pay the taxes on their property instead of being tax exempted?  I agree they need to stop stealing from tax payers.

[Ash74]

Yes that sounds wonderful but everytime somebody mentions cutting taxes, the Liberals spin that into a fear campaign about Mike Harris. 

Ontario has become a "Government must control our lives " state and anybody that even hints at allowing people to look after themselves is considered alt-right. 

[GostHacked]

On 11/28/2016 at 9:14 AM, Boges said:

They're not doing it to reduce congestion. Complete cash grab. 

Indeed,

Taxpayers already paid for the road, and we will continue to pay with our taxes to maintain the road. If the construction companies and the process of giving out contracts was not so f'n corrupt, this might be easier on our tax wallets.