Immigration of religious fanatics

[Omni]

Not so easy if your hotel room (in Dubai) happens to be across the street from a minaret.

[cannuck]

I find it a bit disturbing that we have so much trouble distinguishing between religious beliefs and political ones.

Yes, there are some genuine jackasses in the Muslim diaspora, but there are some real looney tunes in the Christian one as well.

If anyone REALLY gives a flying purple frick about mankind, you would be figuring out how to return to a sustainable level of population (say one billion or so).  One of the big problems is cultures where breeding like rabbits is the norm.  Blocking them from Canada would do nothing to correct the real problem, it is global.

[Argus]

23 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

Good gravy...look at Europe. That will be Canada.

You have to remember that to most of the 'progressives' that would be a good thing. They don't like Canada or any other western countries and they want radical change.

[Argus]

20 hours ago, dialamah said:

Because it doesn't support your story that only Muslims do evil things?

I've never made that story, but since lying is the only shtick you've got in your obsession with defending the expansion of Islam, go ahead.

Yeah? Was it grounds for murder? You know how many people in the Muslim world ever get charged with spousal murder, to say nothing of raping their children?

20 hours ago, dialamah said:

Your assumption, not borne out by any facts or evidence whatsoever, is that Muslims are just waiting to gain critical mass to start changing Canada.  

Never made such a statement. However, perhaps you'd like to show me which country in the world has a substantial Muslim minority where terrorism and guerrilla war isn't common as those Muslims agitate for Sharia and other special laws?

20 hours ago, dialamah said:

Yet, the most recent survey of Muslims in Canada shows that a higher percentage of Muslims are happy with Canada's direction than are non-Muslims. - why would they want to change something they are happy with?

Why does everyone on this web site want changes in government policies?

20 hours ago, dialamah said:

Your contention that they are a bunch of gay-hating killers is also not born out by facts:  56% of Muslims either think homosexuality should be accepted by society or they didn't have an opinion; 43% do not think homosexuality should be accepted by society.   

Actually, according to your own cite it's 36% who say they should be accepted, not 56%? And the last time I saw a poll of Canadian Muslims it showed 62% wanted some form of Sharia law in Canada.

20 hours ago, dialamah said:

You keep claiming that you are presenting facts, but you are not; or at least, the facts you present are so one-sided as to be within a hairs-breadth of being falsehoods.

Yours don't even have a hairs-breadth distance since your total commitment is to defend the expansion of Islam in Canada.

 

20 hours ago, dialamah said:

Here's an opening:  the study referenced above also notes that younger Muslims tend to be more devout than their parents.   I'd like to discuss why that might be, since that is one area where Muslims clearly go against the general population.

Because young people are always first to embrace new political/social positioning, and the move towards more rigid and intolerant interpretations of Islam has been a growing theme in the Muslim world over the last couple of decades. Older people, who learned their Islam decades ago, are less quickly influenced.

[Argus]

18 hours ago, dialamah said:

I don't know all the ins and outs of screening refugees or immigrants, but I do know that for the refugees past associations were part of the screening process.  

That's only if we're talking about terrorism, which is not the basis of this topic.

18 hours ago, dialamah said:

As I said, I don't know all the details but I think it might be worth discussing the safeguards we already have in place as a start.  It seems to me we already do a lot of screening, though I fully expect the usual suspects to declare that neither Canada nor the UNHCR has any clue what they are doing.

Given only one in ten even gets a face to face interview, and that there is literally no way to check out a person's social/cultural or religious views without that, or without physically interviewing their previous neighbours and family, and given that the statement on screening already shows that the only thing checked is criminality and terrorism, I guess you mean by "usual suspects" people who actually have a clue about what they're talking about.

 

[Argus]

11 hours ago, marcus said:

I remember you once posted some questionable survey, where something like 10 Muslim countries were surveyed. Not only did this survey show how countries and cultures differ in how they view certain ideas despite being Muslim, pointing to the exact problem with your generalization, but the survey was done in only a few Muslim countries and not the 50 in the world.

Do we get a lot of immigrants from Kazhakstan? Nope. The survey wasn't 'questionable' except that it disagreed with your naivety, and it involved all the major Muslim countries, including the ones which are among our major source countries for immigration. I'm sure it's reassuring that the Muslims of Kazhakstan are less extreme than the ones in Pakistan, except that it's the Pakistani ones who are coming to Canada.

Pardon this intrusion of reality into your worldview.

 

[Argus]

45 minutes ago, cannuck said:

I find it a bit disturbing that we have so much trouble distinguishing between religious beliefs and political ones.

You do understand that Islam has both, right?

[Omni]

10 minutes ago, Argus said:

That's only if we're talking about terrorism, which is not the basis of this topic.

Given only one in ten even gets a face to face interview, and that there is literally no way to check out a person's social/cultural or religious views without that, or without physically interviewing their previous neighbours and family, and given that the statement on screening already shows that the only thing checked is criminality and terrorism, I guess you mean by "usual suspects" people who actually have a clue about what they're talking about.

 

Don't know where you get this 1 in 10 idea, (though you do seem to have a "way" with numbers) they are all screened and usually by 3 levels. Young single men who don't have any form of documentation often don't pass muster. Just trying to appease your fear a little.  

[Argus]

7 minutes ago, Omni said:

Don't know where you get this 1 in 10 idea, (though you do seem to have a "way" with numbers) they are all screened and usually by 3 levels. Young single men who don't have any form of documentation often don't pass muster. Just trying to appease your fear a little.  

The number came from a book by Vic Satzewich later quoted by Kellie Leitch. if you're not going to read what's already been posted in this topic before responding why don't you wander off and play elsewhere.

[Omni]

16 minutes ago, Argus said:

The number came from a book by Vic Satzewich later quoted by Kellie Leitch. if you're not going to read what's already been posted in this topic before responding why don't you wander off and play elsewhere.

Kellie Lietch eh? She's your type I guess.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2349421/heres-how-refugees-are-screened-before-arriving-in-canada/

[Argus]

11 minutes ago, Omni said:

Kellie Lietch eh? She's your type I guess.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2349421/heres-how-refugees-are-screened-before-arriving-in-canada/

I love the disdain you people on the far left have for Leitch for daring to suggest we might screen immigrants and refugees!

What you fail to understand is that you are the distinct minority in this country.

And your cite says NOTHING about screening immigrants, and NOTHING about screening refugees for medieval social views, only for criminal/military history and terrorist associations.

If the people coming in were Christians screening wouldn't be necessary, but progressive hate and despise Christians, so the Tory plan to prioritize Christians went out the window.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Argus

[Omni]

9 minutes ago, Argus said:

I love the disdain you people on the far left have for Leitch for daring to suggest we might screen immigrants and refugees!

What you fail to understand is that you are the distinct minority in this country.

And your cite says NOTHING about screening immigrants, and NOTHING about screening refugees for medieval social views, only for criminal/military history and terrorist associations.

If the people coming in were Christians screening wouldn't be necessary, but progressive hate and despise Christians, so the Tory plan to prioritize Christians went out the window.

Leitch is a big fan of Trump's. I thought that would have given you pause.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Omni said:

Leitch is a big fan of Trump's. I thought that would have given you pause.

I'm not a big fan of either, but that doesn't mean that neither can have an idea I would support.

[cannuck]

7 hours ago, Argus said:

You do understand that Islam has both, right?

As opposed to Christendom and Judaism having none??

There is as broad a spectrum of political philosophies within Islam as there is in any other place or group.

Edited December 26, 2016 by cannuck

[eyeball]

Islam is strictly what Argus and ISIS say it is. They're like peas in a pod as far as their intolerance for any deviation from their beliefs.

[cannuck]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

Islam is strictly what Argus and ISIS say it is. They're like peas in a pod as far as their intolerance for any deviation from their beliefs.

I am assuming by this that you have never lived nor worked in an Islamic country?

[carepov]

 

Good gravy...look at Europe. That will be Canada.

18 hours ago, Argus said:

You have to remember that to most of the 'progressives' that would be a good thing. They don't like Canada or any other western countries and they want radical change.

Immigration policies are probably the biggest political differences between Europe and Canada - with the Canadian model very much admired.

I am more or less supporting the staus quo

[drummindiver]

 

On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 1:17 PM, carepov said:

 

Yes, the "Muslim world" is decades behind.  However most individual Muslims fit right in with western values - in fact about one million Canadian Muslims do.

You contradict.  The Muslim world is decades behind.  The.muslims in Canada have the same beliefs you know which is what makes them muslims.

On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 1:35 PM, Argus said:

How was antisemitism worse? Most of the Muslim world has ethnically cleansed itself of Jews. Nor was the term 'honor killing' ever coined in the West, nor were women forced to cover themselves head to toe or be arrested. Certainly not in the last century in the West. Gays might have been jailed but weren't killed. Nor would anyone even consider genital mutilation on 

More to the point, the general religious orthodoxy of Islam is trending towards more rigid interpretations of moral laws and rules, not liberalization. You can see pictures of Lebanese and Iranian women from the 1950s and find no sign of the hajib let alone burqua. Not today. The Saudis, with their billions and billions spent on proselytizing, are slowly winning over the Muslim (except the Shiites) world to their fundamentalist views and interpretations. And the example of Iran is hardly a clarion call to liberalization for Shiite Muslims either. Canadian Muslim women are more inclined towards religious garb than they were even ten years ago, and surveys show the second generation here is more conservative, not less, than their immigrant parents, so it's not like things are improving on 

In Milestones by Sayd  Qutb,   the most influential book for Muslims since the Qu'ran,  he states muslims  are not being muslim enough.

"Unlike what some kind and sincere people who wish to be Muslims may think, Islaam is not confined to this (mere beliefs and worship rituals). Islaam is a positive movement that accompanies this declaration. It requires its followers to dissociate themselves from jaahiliyyah society, its conceptual beliefs, values, leadership, laws and authority. It also requires its followers to acknowledge loyalty only to the Muslim leadership which wants to bring Islaam into practice." [Fee Zhilaal Al-Quraan [English trans.], 7/125]

Edited December 26, 2016 by drummindiver

[DogOnPorch]

50 minutes ago, carepov said:

 

Immigration policies are probably the biggest political differences between Europe and Canada - with the Canadian model very much admired.

I am more or less supporting the staus quo

By importing hostile belief systems into our homes. Great idea. Pray or die, eh?

[GostHacked]

On 12/24/2016 at 7:10 PM, Rue said:

I will try provide statistics for this discussion.

The University of Maryland's Global Terrorism data base reported that:

• of 167,221 terrorism related facilities between 2001 to 2015, 98% of them (163,532) occurred outside the United States and Europe
• 25 Muslim majority countries accounted for 75% of all these fatalities

How much of this terrorism is connected to foreign powers like the USA, UK, and Russia backing certain 'rebel' (terrorist) entities?

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, GostHacked said:

How much of this terrorism is connected to foreign powers like the USA, UK, and Russia backing certain 'rebel' (terrorist) entities?

That's right...Putin and Obama are making Muslims shoot each other.

[GostHacked]

On 12/24/2016 at 11:22 AM, Argus said:

Here's what the ineffectual debaters here do. Since they aren't capable of discussing an issue intelligently they trot out some hoary old cliche'd straw man and then huff and puff in all their self-righteous indignation as they fight against it.

Should check out DogOnPorch's replies, they fit what you describe here very succinctly.

[GostHacked]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

That's right...Putin and Obama are making Muslims shoot each other.

In the case of Syria, yes.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, GostHacked said:

Should check out DogOnPorch's replies, they fit what you describe here very succinctly.

You're free to support Islam.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, GostHacked said:

In the case of Syria, yes.

LOL...with what? Mind rays?