Government Gone Wild

[dre]

So recently we found out that the government has been wire-tapping journalists to try to find out who their confidential informants are. This kind of attack on our democracy on the freedom of the press is met with the statement "it disturbs me" by our prime minister. That's it. Nobody punished, nobody charged, nobody jailed. Nothing. In the mean time we have president Obama persecuting more whistle blowers than the previous few governments combined. And we have shit bags in the previous conservative government trying numerous times to give their security apparatus to perform warrantless wiretaps of Canadian citizens. They have tried invoking trumped up fears of terrorism as a justification. They have tried invoking pedophilia. They have tried invoking bullying. And each time Canadians told them to go and stuff their BS back up their own asses we were called (by retards like Vic Toews) that we are pedophile/terrorist supporters.

The hatred and loathing our government has for our personal freedoms should be of grave concern but it seems like nobody cares.  We will protest the construction of an oil pipeline which would probably reduce the threat of oil spills, but we wont even stand up for our basic fundamental rights and freedoms. What a bunch of losers.

Here's some recent commentary from NM....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/source-journalist-leak-privacy-1.3837856

 

[Moonlight Graham]

This is classic abuse of power.  Whomever is responsible should be jailed for treason, hopefully for life.  Everyone involved in this dirty deed should be prosecuted.

This is another chance for Justin to prove his worth as a leader.  Now go lead young man and show us what you're going to do about it.  Or we'll get rid of you like the last ass-hat and keep getting rid of you shmucks until we find someone worth a vote.

 

Edited November 5, 2016 by Moonlight Graham

[Michael Hardner]

Of course people are not interested.  People are more interested in reality TV and conspiracy theories about the government eavesdropping on us than in real news stories.

Some notes:  Although the safety minister spoke about it in the HoC, it seems that the federal government has nothing to do with it, at least on the surface.  It's Quebec jurisdiction ...

I posted a podcast that covered it in some depth - the La Presse reporter is Patrick Lagacé who is not mentioned in the CBC article for some reason.

http://www.canadalandshow.com/podcast/short-cuts/

 

 

[?Impact]

From what I understand about this, a Quebec judge authorized this wiretapping and surveillance to take place. The larger problem in my opinion is that the public has zero feedback on how extensive this is, and the individuals being tracked don't either. There should be mandatory limits on the duration of any such warrant, and if necessary a subsequent warrant to extend that must be obtained. At the termination of any investigation, those being investigated should be notified that it occurred. Additionally the public should be informed on the extent of  surveillance that is taking place on a periodic basis. We need accountability in the system, today there is almost none.

[Argus]

I don't see the reason for the hyperbole on this. The warrants were legal. They weren't aimed at restraining freedom of press. They weren't even aimed at the journalists in question. They were aimed at those who were illegally leaking information to them.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2016 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

That's what it seems like, but this journalist wasn't working on any story like that.  That is what makes it a head scratcher.  If they were looking for the leaks, they wouldn't have tailed him.  I'm not sure about the other journalists though.

 

Maybe this is a ham-fisted sort of turkey-shoot/fishing expedition....

[dre]

3 hours ago, ?Impact said:

 The larger problem in my opinion is that the public has zero feedback on how extensive this is, and the individuals being tracked don't either.

Right that's because while government doesn't value OUR privacy at all, they value their own more and more. Wanting to know what government does makes you an enemy of the state now.

Quote

There should be mandatory limits on the duration of any such warrant, and if necessary a subsequent warrant to extend that must be obtained.

It should be illegal for the courts to grant such a warrant in the first place. In this case there isn't even a suggestion that the journalists in question committed a crime or did anything illegal. Its a fishing expedition just in CASE the journalists talk to someone that did something wrong.

The whole thing needs to get tightened up. The governments security apparatus should have to provide evidence that a person is doing something illegal to even have a chance at getting a warrant. That warrant should expire after a week and they should have to prove their justification is still relevant to get it extended. And as soon as the warrant expires its content should be made public and the person who was under surveillance should be notified by the courts.

But the that doesn't get to the real problem. The real problem is we have a country that's half full of cowards that actually support the government doing this kind of thing. They want the government to have new powers that violate our civil rights because they have irrational fears about crime (even though crime is at an all time low), or terrorism (even though theres less than a 1 in 20 million chance of them being subjected to an act of terrorism). All the government has to do is mention an emotional buzzword that frightens these cowards and they have a pretty good chance of doing whatever they want to do.

Its easy to blame the government for this kind of thing but they are our own reflection in the mirror staring back at us. The problem is that we are lazy useless citizens that wouldn't miss an episode of Survivor to fight for our own rights and freedoms.

 

[dre]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's what it seems like, but this journalist wasn't working on any story like that.  That is what makes it a head scratcher.  If they were looking for the leaks, they wouldn't have tailed him.  I'm not sure about the other journalists though.

 

Maybe this is a ham-fisted sort of turkey-shoot/fishing expedition....

Its probably just that the surveillance of this one journalist happened to get disclosed. We have no choice but to assume that all journalists are under surveillance. We dont have any information at our disposal that would make us believe otherwise because government is so secretive.

We know from looking at the kind of laws the government has tried to make that they are intent on casting a very wide net. They don't care who is guilty or not, and don't want to do the work to provide a reasonable cause. They want to gather ALL of the data up, and then search it. They don't care if their net catches a thousand salmon and cod for each shark it catches. They think our communications are their property.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, dre said:

 

 

Its easy to blame the government for this kind of thing but they are our own reflection in the mirror staring back at us. The problem is that we are lazy useless citizens that wouldn't miss an episode of Survivor to fight for our own rights and freedoms.

How do you fight this without getting violent about it? That's the real problem...how?  I thought our grandpappies were supposed to have put a stop to this back when they were fighting tyranny.

[Altai]

As I said always, no countries have a free media (expect only my country). You think that you have a free media because there is really no opposition to the government policies. Small opposition moves are allowed to draw an image like its a "free" country while your govt cant even take a step without the permission of queen's men. You will see the canine teeth when things start to get serious. 

 

[Altai]

For example; FBI employee who leaks the emails of presidency candidate have been found dead. Wow what a free country, now his soul is freely flying in the sky.

http://denverguardian.com/2016/11/05/fbi-agent-suspected-hillary-email-leaks-found-dead-apparent-murder-suicide/

[Argus]

13 hours ago, Altai said:

As I said always, no countries have a free media (expect only my country). 

Your comment is ludicrous. The fact police, with a warrant wire-tapped a few journalists does not mean we don't have a free media. Your Islamic state jails any journalist who dares to say anything against its holy sultan and his thousand room palace. You have no free press of any kind and your country is spiraling down into the dirt of just another poverty stricken Muslim crap hole run and populated by religious extremists.

[Ash74]

14 hours ago, Altai said:

As I said always, no countries have a free media (expect only my country). 

 

Yes. Of course those in Turkey are free. As long as they keep loyal to "Dear Leader" they enjoy all the freedom a country in lock down can have. 

 

[Altai]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Your comment is ludicrous. The fact police, with a warrant wire-tapped a few journalists does not mean we don't have a free media. Your Islamic state jails any journalist who dares to say anything against its holy sultan and his thousand room palace. You have no free press of any kind and your country is spiraling down into the dirt of just another poverty stricken Muslim crap hole run and populated by religious extremists.

 

LoL I am really having so much fun when I see persons like you biting their fingers with anger 

Please stop lying about my country. We have much more free media than any other countries. You cant make 90% of these news in Canada or any other western countries while you can do it freely in Turkiye.

[WestCoastRunner]

25 minutes ago, Altai said:

 

LoL I am really having so much fun when I see persons like you biting their fingers with anger 

Please stop lying about my country. We have much more free media than any other countries. You cant make 90% of these news in Canada or any other western countries while you can do it freely in Turkiye.

Seriously?  Have you any idea how your country has moved away from democracy? 

[taxme]

On 11/5/2016 at 11:26 AM, dre said:

So recently we found out that the government has been wire-tapping journalists to try to find out who their confidential informants are. This kind of attack on our democracy on the freedom of the press is met with the statement "it disturbs me" by our prime minister. That's it. Nobody punished, nobody charged, nobody jailed. Nothing. In the mean time we have president Obama persecuting more whistle blowers than the previous few governments combined. And we have shit bags in the previous conservative government trying numerous times to give their security apparatus to perform warrantless wiretaps of Canadian citizens. They have tried invoking trumped up fears of terrorism as a justification. They have tried invoking pedophilia. They have tried invoking bullying. And each time Canadians told them to go and stuff their BS back up their own asses we were called (by retards like Vic Toews) that we are pedophile/terrorist supporters.

The hatred and loathing our government has for our personal freedoms should be of grave concern but it seems like nobody cares.  We will protest the construction of an oil pipeline which would probably reduce the threat of oil spills, but we wont even stand up for our basic fundamental rights and freedoms. What a bunch of losers.

Here's some recent commentary from NM....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/source-journalist-leak-privacy-1.3837856

 

Trudeau says it "disturbs" him. What a joke. There is no true freedom of speech or privacy or anything like that in the Canada of today. Canada has been bought and sold and is controlled by elite special interest groups who do not have Canada or Canadians interests in mind. We have fake and phony politically correct politicians who are only to willing to sell their souls and sell Canada down the tubes just for a bit of glory for themselves. 

But who can blame the the politicians. They know that they can buffoon the sheeple and get away with it. It is the fault of the naive and apathetic and lazy Canadians themselves who could careless as to what goes on with their freedoms or their tax dollars. Many patriots have come forward to try and change the crooked and rigged system and all they get from the phony and fake media and politicians for their efforts are attacks and insults and they are made to appear as though they are nothing more than a bunch of quacks. And the sheeple will go along with it because they believe that the media and our useless bunch of politicians will tell them the truth. Personally, I would not trust Canadians to ever protect my freedom or privacy. I have lost all faith in Canadians. When they elect people like Trudeau, Notley and Wynne that alone tells me that they are beyond help, and Canada is doomed.    

[Moonlight Graham]

On 2016-11-05 at 7:07 PM, dre said:

Its probably just that the surveillance of this one journalist happened to get disclosed. We have no choice but to assume that all journalists are under surveillance. We dont have any information at our disposal that would make us believe otherwise because government is so secretive.

We know from looking at the kind of laws the government has tried to make that they are intent on casting a very wide net. They don't care who is guilty or not, and don't want to do the work to provide a reasonable cause. They want to gather ALL of the data up, and then search it. They don't care if their net catches a thousand salmon and cod for each shark it catches. They think our communications are their property.

We have to all be under the assumption that all of our online/cellphone communications/activity are being monitored at all times, or can easily be.
 

Quote

 

It should be illegal for the courts to grant such a warrant in the first place. In this case there isn't even a suggestion that the journalists in question committed a crime or did anything illegal. Its a fishing expedition just in CASE the journalists talk to someone that did something wrong.

The whole thing needs to get tightened up. The governments security apparatus should have to provide evidence that a person is doing something illegal to even have a chance at getting a warrant.

 

I don't think that's how it works though.  The police can get a warrant to search your house if they believe evidence for a crime is on your property, even if you don't know it or you did nothing wrong and aren't a suspect.  At least that's my understanding.

[eyeball]

On 11/5/2016 at 11:26 AM, dre said:

 

 

 

 

 

And we have shit bags in the previous conservative government trying numerous times to give their security apparatus to perform warrantless wiretaps of Canadian citizens. They have tried invoking trumped up fears of terrorism as a justification. They have tried invoking pedophilia. They have tried invoking bullying. And each time Canadians told them to go and stuff their BS back up their own asses we were called (by retards like Vic Toews) that we are pedophile/terrorist supporters.

It wasn't just politicians, recall the aspersions a lot of CPC supporters have all to easily and willingly tossed about when it came to calling any truth to power and policies dealing with fear and security these last 15 or years or more. Speaking of mirrors as you do below, a lot of shitbags also reflect their political leaders along with their adoration for concentrating more power into the hands of the government.

Quote

The hatred and loathing our government has for our personal freedoms should be of grave concern but it seems like nobody cares.

I'm more concerned about the hatred and loathing that's developed between progressives and conservatives. I get the sense that many of the people who cheer greater power for the state would have little issue with the state using its security apparati to deal with people who don't.

Quote

 

 

 

Its easy to blame the government for this kind of thing but they are our own reflection in the mirror staring back at us. The problem is that we are lazy useless citizens that wouldn't miss an episode of Survivor to fight for our own rights and freedoms.

How long will it be until we have reality shows highlighting fearless agents of the state kicking down people's doors...oh, wait a minute...

Like I said how do people fight it now, without violence either against or at the hands of the state?  It's probably going to take a little more effort than just putting down the remote.

[Altai]

9 hours ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Seriously?  Have you any idea how your country has moved away from democracy? 

Nonsense. Probably we are the most democratic country in the World. Our courts are open to everyone, you can come here and undertake the defense of criminals. Some famous Western lawyers tried that before. You can benefit from their experience. So what you are going to say in the court ? "Sir these people may be terrorists but they have right to threaten people to kill, come onnn dear Judge sirrrr this is a free country !!!"  ??? or do you plan to say "Sir I have a proof that these people were on drugs while having terrorist activities, so we should accuse them with drug use, not terrorism."  ??? What kind of a defense text you are going to prepare to defend a terrorist ?

 

[Argus]

9 hours ago, Altai said:

Nonsense. Probably we are the most democratic country in the World.

Yes, the same way Donald Trump has more respect for women than anyone.

[Charles Anthony]

Folks, 

Avoid derailing discussion.