Doctors and opioids, a troublesome connection.

[eyeball]

22 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

 

Many people in pain are more effectively treated without opioids. Those who are treated with opioids can become addicted and it's impossible to know who will become addicted. In such cases, the physician has caused serious harm. I imagine we will see more litigation in this area. 

Pot is probably the most effective at both treating pain and causing a big reduction in conventional addictive painkillers.  Unfortunately pot causes the authorities a great deal of moral agony which is apparently worse than the physical pain of their patients and constituents.

[SpankyMcFarland]

I think we are a reaching turning point on this issue in Canada:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/opioids-prescription-1.3839625

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2016 by SpankyMcFarland

[H10]

We should not blame doctors, people who get addicted to pills would find something else to get addicted, I took a bottle of oxy after my teeth were removed and I am not addicted.  It is the people using them to get high off because they are "Safer" than dangerous street weed or coke that could be laced with fentanol which can kill you quickly.

[cybercoma]

On 11/28/2016 at 9:40 AM, hernanday said:

people who get addicted to pills would find something else to get addicted

Cite? 

Your personal anecdotes are not data.

[H10]

3 hours ago, cybercoma said:

Cite? 

Your personal anecdotes are not data.

The experts I spoken too on the topic of addictions including my relatives who are doctors in the area.

[cybercoma]

On 11/29/2016 at 3:34 PM, hernanday said:

The experts I spoken too on the topic of addictions including my relatives who are doctors in the area.

You're saying we shouldn't blame doctors because doctors say it's not their fault. Of course they are. They don't want to take accountability for getting people unnecessarily hooked on opioids. People who get hooked on legal heroin will then turn to illegal heroin to feed their dependency, which for heroin is strong and painful physical withdrawals. Even the CDC says, "We now know that overdoses from prescription opioid pain relievers are a driving factor in the 15-year increase in opioid overdose deaths" (CDC). The also note that deaths from prescribed pain killers have quadrupled. This is the case because doctors are much quicker to give out prescriptions for narcotics these days and that's pushed by the pharmaceutical industry, who give doctors kickbacks for prescribing their products. People who wouldn't go seeking out hard narcotics from gangs in the streets are getting hooked on legal prescription medications and it's killing them. Doctors must carry at the very least some of that burden.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

... Even the CDC says, "We now know that overdoses from prescription opioid pain relievers are a driving factor in the 15-year increase in opioid overdose deaths" (CDC).

 

"Even the CDC" ?    My how the American government's CDC is held in such high regard for Canada.

[cybercoma]

20 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

"Even the CDC" ?    My how the American government's CDC is held in such high regard for Canada.

When pharmaceutical industries stop operating across borders, you can bring your silly little schtick into the discussion.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

When pharmaceutical industries stop operating across borders, you can bring your silly little schtick into the discussion.

 

I don't think that would change anything for opioid abuse and addiction in Canada, which takes such pride in its permissive dope culture.

"Even the <insert U.S. reference>" is a common Canadian tactic to gain credibility for issues affecting Canada.

[H10]

1 hour ago, cybercoma said:

You're saying we shouldn't blame doctors because doctors say it's not their fault. Of course they are. They don't want to take accountability for getting people unnecessarily hooked on opioids. People who get hooked on legal heroin will then turn to illegal heroin to feed their dependency, which for heroin is strong and painful physical withdrawals. Even the CDC says, "We now know that overdoses from prescription opioid pain relievers are a driving factor in the 15-year increase in opioid overdose deaths" (CDC). The also note that deaths from prescribed pain killers have quadrupled. This is the case because doctors are much quicker to give out prescriptions for narcotics these days and that's pushed by the pharmaceutical industry, who give doctors kickbacks for prescribing their products. People who wouldn't go seeking out hard narcotics from gangs in the streets are getting hooked on legal prescription medications and it's killing them. Doctors must carry at the very least some of that burden.

 

It is people who lack personal responsibility and good moral values who are getting addicted.  Doctors don't get people addicted, they do not push drugs down anyones mouth.  Sure prescriptions are a factor, just like having cars to drive to the drug dealer is a factor.  Whose fault it is these people go doctor shopping for drugs?  Doctor's are not getting kickbacks, it is the druggies who are getting high which is the incentive, the doctors are not forcing druggies to get drugs, they get them because that is what druggies do.  No, doctors treat sick people, if these people were not already sickos coming in, they wouldn't get medicine, and no one force them to take opioids.

[cybercoma]

12 hours ago, hernanday said:

It is people who lack personal responsibility and good moral values who are getting addicted.

The early 1900s called...they want their dogmatic beliefs back.

[Argus]

On 11/4/2016 at 0:04 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

Many people in pain are more effectively treated without opioids. Those who are treated with opioids can become addicted and it's impossible to know who will become addicted. In such cases, the physician has caused serious harm. I imagine we will see more litigation in this area.

I'd rather be addicted than in pain. What the ham-handed government is likely to do is simply make doctors wary of prescribing the proper doses to eliminate pain. They'll second guess themselves, and prescribe lower doses, even if that still leaves the patient in some pain, in hopes of avoiding government scrutiny.

[H10]

On 12/2/2016 at 10:40 AM, cybercoma said:

The early 1900s called...they want their dogmatic beliefs back.

I agree with argus, look, its not doctors job to stop idiots from hunting for drugs, lock the druggies up so they can get clean.

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 12/3/2016 at 11:08 PM, hernanday said:

I agree with argus, look, its not doctors job to stop idiots from hunting for drugs, lock the druggies up so they can get clean.

It is up to the doctors to do no harm. They have made a terrible mess of treating pain and many of them are willing to admit it now. 

Edited January 12, 2017 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

Here's the CBC's Dr. Brian Goldman's mea culpa:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/i-was-part-of-big-pharmas-big-influence/article535295/

And two recent appraisals of the crisis:

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/blog/no-quick-fix-to-prescription-drug-abuse-1.3131971

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/into-the-breech-this-midwife-says-breech-births-are-safe-and-natural-now-she-just-has-to-convince-doctors-1.3837164/action-needed-for-opioid-epidemic-1.3839994

 

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2017 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

Quote

The Nova Scotia College of Physicians and Surgeons is recommending doctors cut in half how much opioids they prescribe for chronic pain.

The college has endorsed new guidelines from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for pain outside treatment of active cancer or palliative care.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/opioid-nova-scotia-prescription-dosage-addiction-methadone-halifax-1.3614866

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 12/1/2016 at 11:12 PM, hernanday said:

 Doctor's are not getting kickbacks, it is the druggies who are getting high which is the incentive, the doctors are not forcing druggies to get drugs, they get them because that is what druggies do.  

So many things to discuss there but let's start with this. Purdue spent a lot of money promoting OxyContin. Many doctors did benefit financially one way or another. A lot of experts are backtracking on the advice they gave to other physicians on the dangers of opioids.  

[H10]

15 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

So many things to discuss there but let's start with this. Purdue spent a lot of money promoting OxyContin. Many doctors did benefit financially one way or another. A lot of experts are backtracking on the advice they gave to other physicians on the dangers of opioids.  

Drug addiction is a moral issue.

[SpankyMcFarland]

6 hours ago, hernanday said:

Drug addiction is a moral issue.

It's a lot of other things too. 'Good' people can end up addicted to drugs.

[BillyBeaver]

Are painkillers really curative substances though? Last time I checked, nobody died from the sensation of pain. It was the things causing the pain that are life-threatening.

Big Pharma and the chinese getting us hooked on phonics again.

[dialamah]

Severe pain can cause circulatory shock which can kill you. 

Chronic pain can limit your life and cause depression and sometimes people attempt suicide to stop the pain.    

[?Impact]

4 hours ago, BillyBeaver said:

 It was the things causing the pain that are life-threatening.

The challenge is to understand and be able to understand and address those things. While modern medicine has made great strides, there are many areas where is comes up very short. Severe and chronic pain certainly have a big effect on quality of life. That being said, yes pain killers can be easily abused and that abuse itself leads to a degradation in quality of life. Like many things, we need to find the right balance.

[SpankyMcFarland]

http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada/1456058-trial-for-doctor-accused-of-trafficking-starts-with-push-to-drop-evidence

50,000 pills to one person sounds like something that should have been spotted earlier.

 

[dre]

On 2/17/2017 at 0:04 AM, hernanday said:

Drug addiction is a moral issue.

No its a medical issue. Treating it has a moral issue, or as a matter of willpower has been an abject failure and the medical profession is starting to realize this now. People who are predisposed to drug addiction have physically different brain characteristics... In most cases the configuration and behavior of dopamine receptors.

No offense but your posts on this topic literally parrot ideas that have been proven wrong over the course of many decades, and are completely out of touch with modern medicine.

Locking up addicts is the most useless and stupid approach possible.  Opioid addictions are medically treatable.

[H10]

7 hours ago, dre said:

No its a medical issue. Treating it has a moral issue, or as a matter of willpower has been an abject failure and the medical profession is starting to realize this now. People who are predisposed to drug addiction have physically different brain characteristics... In most cases the configuration and behavior of dopamine receptors.

No offense but your posts on this topic literally parrot ideas that have been proven wrong over the course of many decades, and are completely out of touch with modern medicine.

Locking up addicts is the most useless and stupid approach possible.  Opioid addictions are medically treatable.

We need to lock them up and throw away the key so they can get clean.  The problem is laziness and poor morals and a culture which has not taught these kids right from wrong so they engage in rampant drug use, lock them up, re-educate them.