26 birth houses identified used by Mainland Chinese.

[Argus]

You mean just like the immigration laws allow? Where Canadians get pensions and health care? Like everyone else who is a Canadian?

Unlike real Canadians, such people don't spend their lives here, don't contribute anything to the country or its tax base, and have no desire to assimilate in any way with existing Canadian society. They are simply foreigners in every way that really matters - except to those who take a technocrat view and say none of that matters as long as they're given a passport.

[Wilber]

Got a market quote for that? or are you just making stuff up?

You are making stuff up. Connection with this country's values, history or culture or the lack of desire to have any, is not a condition of citizenship. Never has been. Never will be. Birth is all that is required or perhaps swearing the citizenship after passing the test. Your fantasy requirements do not exist.

Actually it does, that's why we have residency requirements and a citizenship test for real immigrants who want to become real citizens.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Wilber

[WestCoastRunner]

We have no idea what the long term impact is. We don't even really know how many anchor babies there are born in Canada each year. No one is keeping track. Hospitals don't record the nationality of parents. They simply register the child as Canadian and that's that.

If we don't know the long term impact why would Canada embark on an overhaul of the immigration system that could cost millions or even billions as some have quoted. Databases would need to be created, provinces would have to come on board and until there is evidence of long term issues it seems silly to cry 'the sky is falling'.

[Peter F]

Canada used to sell passports for $800,000, mostly to well heeled Chinese. This was a program had disastrous results. Nevertheless, we're thinking of doing it again.

So you can sell your passport for 800,000 bucks? Good luck with that. What was it you said ?

Investing a few thousand dollars in obtaining a Canadian passport which will be worth a fortune in future is an excellent investment for anyone.

Please explain how these tourists investments turn into 800,000 bucks.

[WestCoastRunner]

If we don't know the long term impact why would Canada embark on an overhaul of the immigration system that could cost millions or even billions as some have quoted. Databases would need to be created, provinces would have to come on board and until there is evidence of long term issues it seems silly to cry 'the sky is falling'.

I should have included this

https://bccla.org/2014/08/born-equal-citizenship-by-birth-is-who-we-are/

Costs to overhaul the system. Between 3-5 billion.

[Peter F]

They are simply foreigners in every way that really matters - except to those who take a technocrat view and say none of that matters as long as they're given a passport.

Bullshit. The only thing that matters is citizenship. "Foreigners" who have Canadian citizenship are not foreigners. They're Canadians. I get it that you don't like that much. We're not an exclusive club. We're a country.

[Peter F]

Actually it does, that's why we have residency requirements and a citizenship test for real immigrants who want to become real citizens.

All immigrants are 'real' and all citizens are 'real'.

[G Huxley]

What is pseudo-citizenry?

People who have a citizenship simply based on getting around loopholes, with no interest in the actual Canadian state often living abroad without paying taxes and without any real interest in Canada other than to use its services when possible and to get further family members Canadian citizenship.

[Argus]

If we don't know the long term impact why would Canada embark on an overhaul of the immigration system that could cost millions or even billions as some have quoted. Databases would need to be created, provinces would have to come on board and until there is evidence of long term issues it seems silly to cry 'the sky is falling'.

I have no idea what you are talking about. All it requires is a simple change to citizenship laws similar to what most European nations have so that children born to foreigners during a brief stopover here don't get Canadian citizenship. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the way Liberals think, as they announced changes to the Citizenship act a few months ago to make it easier to become citizens, lowering standards and qualifying times. It lowers the time needed to be spent in Canada, and eliminates the requirement that immigrants declare their intent to actually reside in Canada. It seems that, just as with their chosen leader, Liberals have very, very, very low standards as to who should come and live here.

[G Huxley]

Got a market quote for that? or are you just making stuff up?

You are making stuff up. Connection with this country's values, history or culture or the lack of desire to have any, is not a condition of citizenship. Never has been. Never will be. Birth is all that is required or perhaps swearing the citizenship after passing the test. Your fantasy requirements do not exist.

Then citizenship is meaningless. There is no inherent value of Canadian citizenship or Canada then, if citizenship is just given away. On the contrary I consider Canada something worth defending. And incidentally so do the countless people who try to get citizenship consider it to have value. So we should not give it away like candy, especially to a people who have virtually completely destroyed their own environment and have 1.3 billion people in their own country already.

[G Huxley]

I should have included this

https://bccla.org/2014/08/born-equal-citizenship-by-birth-is-who-we-are/

Costs to overhaul the system. Between 3-5 billion.

This is insane. If everyone had an equal easy opportunity to gain citizenship then we would become massively overpopulated like say China or India etc., and the descendents of Canadians which actually formed the country would be overtaken and left in the dust by the influx of the new populations.

Edited August 7, 2016 by G Huxley

[Wilber]

All immigrants are 'real' and all citizens are 'real'.

Immigrants are real, and they know the value of Canadian citizenship because they want to make their lives here. Infants who only spent the first week or so of their lives in Canada are real citizens of the country their parents live in, not Canada.

Why put up with this farce, just tell people if they vacation in Canada for a month with their kids and make a donation to a Canadian hospital , we will make their kids citizens of Canada. What's the difference.

It's sad how little value many Canadians put on this country's citizenship.

[Hal 9000]

This is insane. If everyone had an equal easy opportunity to gain citizenship then we would become massively overpopulated like say China or India etc., and the descendents of Canadians which actually formed the country would be overtaken and left in the dust by the influx of the new populations.

You've seen Vancouver lately...right?

[Peter F]

Then citizenship is meaningless. There is no inherent value of Canadian citizenship or Canada then, if citizenship is just given away. On the contrary I consider Canada something worth defending. And incidentally so do the countless people who try to get citizenship consider it to have value. So we should not give it away like candy, especially to a people who have virtually completely destroyed their own environment and have 1.3 billion people in their own country already.

So no immigrants from China then?

[Wilber]

So no immigrants from China then?

Back to the subject, someone who comes to Canada (from China or anywhere else) for a month just to have their child born here in order to get citizenship is not an immigrant, they are an opportunist.

[Peter F]

Why put up with this farce, just tell people if they vacation in Canada for a month with their kids and make a donation to a Canadian hospital , we will make their kids citizens of Canada. What's the difference.

No need to tell them that. A child born in this country is a citizen of this country. That is not new. It is very very old. It's been that way since 1867 at least.

[Peter F]

Back to the subject, someone who comes to Canada (from China or anywhere else) for a month just to have their child born here in order to get citizenship is not an immigrant, they are an opportunist.

Who says the parents are immigrants? They are definitely not immigrants. The child born here is not an immigrant either. such children are Canadian citizens by fact of birth - just like every other child born here by immigrant or non-immigrant parents.

What the hell is the fear here? That in 18 or 21 years Canadian born children will sponsor their parents to move here too and eventually also become Canadian citizens? That is some sort of 'loophole'? The parents will be jumping the que ? Getting unjustly fas-tracked?

Edited August 7, 2016 by Peter F

[Wilber]

Who says the parents are immigrants? They are definitely not immigrants. The child born here is not an immigrant either. such children are Canadian citizens by fact of birth - just like every other child born here by immigrant or non-immigrant parents.

What the hell is the fear here? That in 18 or 21 years Canadian born children will sponsor their parents to move here too and eventually also become Canadian citizens? That is some sort of 'loophole'? The parents will be jumping the que ? Getting unjustly fas-tracked?

That's the point, they should not have citizenship by fact of birth just because their parents are opportunists. Their parents should not have the same status as legal immigrants when it comes to their children. If they want their children to be Canadians, immigrate to Canada.

Why not then just give citizenship to anyone who asks for it whether they have any intention of living here or not, because that is what we are in effect doing by allowing this practice.

[Hal 9000]

It's obviously a scam - an easy way to avoid that pesky application and waiting process.

You know, because that child is Canadian, a relative (even if from another country) can purchase Vancouver real estate in that child's name.

[Wilber]

It's obviously a scam - an easy way to avoid that pesky application and waiting process.

Of course it is and we are stupid enough to think it is worthy of debate.

[Peter F]

That's the point, they should not have citizenship by fact of birth just because their parents are opportunists. Their parents should not have the same status as legal immigrants when it comes to their children. If they want their children to be Canadians, immigrate to Canada.

Why not then just give citizenship to anyone who asks for it whether they have any intention of living here or not, because that is what we are in effect doing by allowing this practice.

Lordy, we do give citizenship to anyone that asks for it. Right now. Plus we give citizenship to anyone that is born here - always have.

Canadian citizens can come and go as they wish. If Canadians want to live in some other country then they are allowed to do so for as long as they wish to do so.

I'm curious at how you think things would be different if we did not allow citizenship at birth.

What would happen then? These wannabe's would have to apply for citizenship which would eventually be granted (assuming they be law abiding ).

What happens now? These wannabe's would have to apply for citizenship which would eventually be granted (assuming they be law abiding)

The difference? None that I can see.

ETA: Except one can happen right now and the other will maybe happen 18 years from now soonest.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Peter F

[Wilber]

Citizenship by birth to citizens and landed immigrants by all means but not to tourists. They already have a citizenship, they are not displaced people or refugees.

[Wilber]

Canadian citizens can come and go as they wish. If Canadians want to live in some other country then they are allowed to do so for as long as they wish to do so.

No they aren't.

[Peter F]

Who's stopping them?

[Wilber]

Who's stopping them?

The countries they want to live in. Every country has its own visa requirements and tax laws. The US has citizenship by birth but there is a method to their madness. US citizens are taxed on their world wide income regardless of where they live. We give our citizenship away for nothing.