An alternative to Trump and Clinton?

[jacee]

When Trump implodes, as he must imo, maybe there's another alternative:

http://www.vox.com/2016/8/3/12367358/trump-republicans-gary-johnson

Libertarian Johnson has a better shot than most third-party candidates

Johnson is currently polling at about 7 percent, one of the best showings for a third party since Perots 1992 run. And his major party opponents are wildly unpopular. Hillary Clinton is viewed unfavorably by a whopping 54 percent of voters. Trump is disliked by an even more remarkable 58 percent of voters. Those numbers are far worse than previous major party candidates.

So there are a lot of voters who would be open to voting for a third candidate if they thought he had a good shot at getting elected. And Johnson unusually for a Libertarian candidate has taken few positions that would turn off mainstream voters.

So if Johnson does start to move up in the polls and especially if he clears the 15 percent threshold for inclusion in the presidential debates he could appeal to a fairly broad swath of voters: orthodox conservatives who are dissatisfied with Trumps policy views, centrists who appreciate Johnsons combination of social liberalism and fiscal conservatism, and voters who are equally disgusted by Trumps outrageous statements and Clintons cozy relationship with special interest groups.

Things could get very interesting for our American friends!

A third party ... Hmmm!

.

Edited August 4, 2016 by jacee

[Moonlight Graham]

If Ron Paul can't get close to winning, there's no hope for a libertarian candidate. Zero. You can't get a more likeable, intelligent, honest, and experienced libertarian than Ron Paul.

There is virtually no nope for a 3rd party candidate this election cycle. Bernie and Cruz were the alternatives. At least Bernie was smarter than Ralph Nader and saw that change from independents would have to come from within the system.

Libertarians are too right-wing for mainstream voters, and democratic socialists like Sanders are too left-wing. Perot put on an incredible campaign and used his huge fortune to get all over the media, yet he only got 18.9% of the vote in 1992...which is actually amazing.

[taxme]

When Trump implodes, as he must imo, maybe there's another alternative:

http://www.vox.com/2016/8/3/12367358/trump-republicans-gary-johnson

Libertarian Johnson has a better shot than most third-party candidates

Johnson is currently polling at about 7 percent, one of the best showings for a third party since Perots 1992 run. And his major party opponents are wildly unpopular. Hillary Clinton is viewed unfavorably by a whopping 54 percent of voters. Trump is disliked by an even more remarkable 58 percent of voters. Those numbers are far worse than previous major party candidates.

So there are a lot of voters who would be open to voting for a third candidate if they thought he had a good shot at getting elected. And Johnson unusually for a Libertarian candidate has taken few positions that would turn off mainstream voters.

So if Johnson does start to move up in the polls and especially if he clears the 15 percent threshold for inclusion in the presidential debates he could appeal to a fairly broad swath of voters: orthodox conservatives who are dissatisfied with Trumps policy views, centrists who appreciate Johnsons combination of social liberalism and fiscal conservatism, and voters who are equally disgusted by Trumps outrageous statements and Clintons cozy relationship with special interest groups.

Things could get very interesting for our American friends!

A third party ... Hmmm!

.

There is no alternative to Trump. He is the man for the job.

[taxme]

If Ron Paul can't get close to winning, there's no hope for a libertarian candidate. Zero. You can't get a more likeable, intelligent, honest, and experienced libertarian than Ron Paul.

There is virtually no nope for a 3rd party candidate this election cycle. Bernie and Cruz were the alternatives. At least Bernie was smarter than Ralph Nader and saw that change from independents would have to come from within the system.

Libertarians are too right-wing for mainstream voters, and democratic socialists like Sanders are too left-wing. Perot put on an incredible campaign and used his huge fortune to get all over the media, yet he only got 18.9% of the vote in 1992...which is actually amazing.

Let Trump become President. I don't think that he could do or be any worse than the last four Presidents.

[-1=e^ipi]

too bad there is no classical liberal party.

[Vega]

Gary Johnson is a really weird guy. I'm not basing that off any evidence, other than him wearing sneakers with his suit, but just the feeling I get about him.

[jacee]

If Ron Paul can't get close to winning, there's no hope for a libertarian candidate. Zero. You can't get a more likeable, intelligent, honest, and experienced libertarian than Ron Paul.

There is virtually no nope for a 3rd party candidate this election cycle. Bernie and Cruz were the alternatives. At least Bernie was smarter than Ralph Nader and saw that change from independents would have to come from within the system.

Libertarians are too right-wing for mainstream voters, and democratic socialists like Sanders are too left-wing. Perot put on an incredible campaign and used his huge fortune to get all over the media, yet he only got 18.9% of the vote in 1992...which is actually amazing.

I think a lot of Republicans are and will abandon Trump.

And I think he'll find some excuse to pack it in early, rather than lose to Hillary.

A Republican meltdown could mean a third party opportunity that hasn't existed before.

I don't have a horse in this race, but I think this is a very unique situation.

.

[jacee]

Gary Johnson is a really weird guy. I'm not basing that off any evidence, other than him wearing sneakers with his suit, but just the feeling I get about him.

Sneakers and suits are very common in cities.

People walk.

.

Edited August 4, 2016 by jacee

[Moonlight Graham]

I think a lot of Republicans are and will abandon Trump.

And I think he'll find some excuse to pack it in early, rather than lose to Hillary.

A Republican meltdown could mean a third party opportunity that hasn't existed before.

I don't have a horse in this race, but I think this is a very unique situation.

It's possible, but I don't see any 3rd party candidate getting more than 10% of the vote, and that's still a big long shot. Likely they'd split the right-wing vote. You have to remember that Trump is still quite popular with joe-average right-winger, I mean he won the GOP primaries with relative ease. He's more popular about Republican voters than Clinton is with Democrats.

[WestCoastRunner]

It's possible, but I don't see any 3rd party candidate getting more than 10% of the vote, and that's still a big long shot. Likely they'd split the right-wing vote. You have to remember that Trump is still quite popular with joe-average right-winger, I mean he won the GOP primaries with relative ease. He's more popular about Republican voters than Clinton is with Democrats.

I don't think there are enough red neck voters to put trump over the top.

[Moonlight Graham]

I don't think there are enough red neck voters to put trump over the top.

I agree. Anyone who becomes POTUS needs to get Florida and/or some of the bigger swing states in the mid-west and the mid-east coast (ie: Virginia). The red-necks will vote GOP regardless. Clinton will win this pretty easily I think.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Moonlight Graham

[GostHacked]

I agree. Anyone who becomes POTUS needs to get Florida and/or some of the bigger swing states in the mid-west and the mid-east coast (ie: Virginia). The red-necks will vote GOP regardless. Clinton will win this pretty easily I think.

George Bush won on a botched vote recount in Florida. The margin was very slim.

[taxme]

I agree. Anyone who becomes POTUS needs to get Florida and/or some of the bigger swing states in the mid-west and the mid-east coast (ie: Virginia). The red-necks will vote GOP regardless. Clinton will win this pretty easily I think.

With Clinton as President she will be looking to start a war with Russia or I should say that her Wall Street bankster elite backers will be trying to get that war started with Russia. There will be war and Mexicans will be free to walk right on in with her blessings. She will be a disaster as President.

[overthere]

I don't think there are enough red neck voters to put trump over the top.

I agree about the numbers. but it remains folly to believe that all Trump supporters are rednecks. That sort of thinking has led to his success, and brought the political situation to where it is today. A big chunk of his followers are longtime, disaffected Democrats, who are under or unemployed, and see the traditional political elites as being responsible for that condition. It is not that they are voting Republican, or loving Trump, but they think that he represents those who have no other voice in America.

But.... I think Trump is maxed out right now. Most of the 'undecided' vote will hold their noses and vote Clinton. IMO the final tally will be strongly Clinton.

[jacee]

I don't think there are enough red neck voters to put trump over the top.

Well ... that's actually a slur against white men who work outside (eg, farmers) and it doesn't quite cover the parameters of Trump supporters.

According to this analysis, Trump voters are primarily ...

authoritarian,

more notably than "education, income, gender, age, ideology and religiosity"

Authoritarian, and fearful of terrorism.

They given orders,they obey orders, and they attack when afraid.

Authoritarians obey. They rally to and follow strong leaders. And they respond aggressively to outsiders, especially when they feel threatened.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/donald-trump-2016-authoritarian-213533#ixzz4GQ3sEEe4

It doesn't help us identify them. There are clearly authoritarians - can we call them bossy frightened people? - in all of those categories.

And I think this survey was done just on Republicans back when there still were other candidates.

What frightens me about bossy frightened people, is they don't have any other strategy but attack, and they don't know who to attack ... until the boss tells them.

So they are ripe for being used for political gain ... point 'em and yell 'ready fire aim!'

.

[Moonlight Graham]

George Bush won on a botched vote recount in Florida. The margin was very slim.

Yes. But he still won Florida. Like I said, it's a swing state.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Moonlight Graham

[Big Guy]

I understand the Trump and Clinton are being briefed on secret government information because they are the choice of their political parties. I am trying to find out if Gary Johnson, Libertarian candidate for President, was also briefed. Anyone?

[Archduke al-Qaddafi]

If Ron Paul can't get close to winning, there's no hope for a libertarian candidate. Zero. You can't get a more likeable, intelligent, honest, and experienced libertarian than Ron Paul.

I like Ron Paul as a libertarian intellectual, but his record in the legislature is less than stellar. He spent decades banging on about ideology while happily sneaking all kinds of pork and earmarks into unbeatable omnibus spending bills.

Gary Johnson and his running mate Bill Weld both have had successful terms running small-government administrations at the executive level. This is by far the best US presidential ticket I have seen in my lifetime, yet no one will give them a second glance because they don't fall under the red or the blue. It boggles the mind.

[cybercoma]

There is no alternative. This is what Democrats and Repubkicans decided that they wanted, despite Trump getting support from less than 50% of Republicans in the primaries. FPTP is great, eh? In any case, no matter how many alternative candidates there are, the president will be either Teump or Clinton, unless one of them decides to drop out. Some suggest that Trump will be "forced" out if his support drops below 35%, whatever "forced" means. I doubt his ego would allow it.

[dre]

I like Ron Paul as a libertarian intellectual, but his record in the legislature is less than stellar. He spent decades banging on about ideology while happily sneaking all kinds of pork and earmarks into unbeatable omnibus spending bills.

Gary Johnson and his running mate Bill Weld both have had successful terms running small-government administrations at the executive level. This is by far the best US presidential ticket I have seen in my lifetime, yet no one will give them a second glance because they don't fall under the red or the blue. It boggles the mind.

This is the worst presidential ticket of my life time. I would take Reagan, GWB1, Al Gore, John Kerry, GWB2, Ron Paul, or Bernie Saunders over either of these crooks by a country mile. Hillary is the ultimate establish candidate and a liar. Shes fundamentally unlikable.. Trump is a liar, ego-maniac, reality TV show personality and business failure, and also fraud and con artist.

Edited August 7, 2016 by dre

[-1=e^ipi]

can we call them bossy frightened people?

What? I thought you were a feminist. Don't you know that we are supposed to ban bossy?

LINK

[-1=e^ipi]

Some suggest that Trump will be "forced" out if his support drops below 35%, whatever "forced" means. I doubt his ego would allow it.

Nah. Trump will just complain that the election is rigged and that the polls are fixed by the establishment. After he loses in a landslide he will proclaim that he was cheated and that he actually won.

[jacee]

What? I thought you were a feminist. Don't you know that we are supposed to ban bossy?

I wasn't being gender specific.

.

[Archduke al-Qaddafi]

This is the worst presidential ticket of my life time. I would take Reagan, GWB1, Al Gore, John Kerry, GWB2, Ron Paul, or Bernie Saunders over either of these crooks by a country mile. Hillary is the ultimate establish candidate and a liar. Shes fundamentally unlikable.. Trump is a liar, ego-maniac, reality TV show personality and business failure, and also fraud and con artist.

Perhaps I should clarify. I meant that the Johnson/Weld ticket is the best I have seen. It's shocking and extremely unfortunate that no one is taking them seriously, especially when they are going up against the likes of Trump and Clinton.

[Moonlight Graham]

I like Ron Paul as a libertarian intellectual, but his record in the legislature is less than stellar. He spent decades banging on about ideology while happily sneaking all kinds of pork and earmarks into unbeatable omnibus spending bills.

Gary Johnson and his running mate Bill Weld both have had successful terms running small-government administrations at the executive level. This is by far the best US presidential ticket I have seen in my lifetime, yet no one will give them a second glance because they don't fall under the red or the blue. It boggles the mind.

Ralph Nader lost to George W Bush and Al Gore in 2000, also ridiculous. 3rd party candidates lose for the same reason great music few people have heard of sells a lot less records compared to pop music that's plastered all over mainstream radio. It's a marketing problem, but also a problem of "team loyalty".

Edited August 7, 2016 by Moonlight Graham