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Wasting Canadian Blood and Treasure


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The prime responsibility of our Canadian military is to protect our borders from attack, and that is all they should be doing.

But we don't have a strong enough military to do that, and don't wish to pay for one. Therefore, we have to seek safety and security with military alliances.

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Switzerland only has fighter jets available M-F, 8:30-4:30. I think I'll pass.

Switzerland is surrounded by Germany, Italy, Austria and France. It's not worried about Russian bombers buzzing its borders. If it needed to mount a stronger air defense it could do so.

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Switzerland is surrounded by Germany, Italy, Austria and France. It's not worried about Russian bombers buzzing its borders. If it needed to mount a stronger air defense it could do so.

And if we wanted to do {insert thing here} so could we. What's your point?

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But we don't have a strong enough military to do that, and don't wish to pay for one. Therefore, we have to seek safety and security with military alliances.

So it's cool for Switzerland to rely on their friends, but not us, right?

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So it's cool for Switzerland to rely on their friends, but not us, right?

Switzerland doesn't rely on its friends. It simply knows that its enemies would have to pass through the territory of its friends first.

And I remind you that this country, with less than one quarter our population has a significantly more powerful military than we do.

Increase the size of the Canadian regular forces to about 500,000 and you would have about the same proportionate size to Switzerland's military.

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Which is true of every country on the list - I don't see why this is hard.

Your right why is this so hard ? When I've explained to you dozens of times, not every country is in the same boat or condition as Canada, who over the last 20 years or so has cut back or delayed purchases projects that where required yesterday....most of those countries in your charts have made regular purchases and have kept their militaries up todate.

Here is the hard part our military has a severe shortage of almost everything, take a look at the panic the liberals are in right now to find a solution for the f-18...

So far the only answer you have provided is " every country is doing the same thing" Who gives a rat ass about what the rest of the world is doing....it does not make it ok, nor right.

About 1/3 of it this year - and it's not future projects, but current.

Your wrong the government defers or holds back funding for future projects all of the time, and once again, that 2.7 bil is for yearly maintence of what we already have in inventory.....very little is being used to address current short falls.....

This project didn't exist, as far as I can tell. Each vehicle set is replaced on its own.

Your wrong , funding had already been set aside for the replacements of LS, ML and HL fleets, or have you forgotten that a US company is suing over cancellation of it's portion to provide trucks to Canada perhaps take a look at the FMTV veh the us army currently uses.

Funding had set at 4.5 bil been has been clawed back, and reduced to the 830 mil, one of the many sources I gave you covered this , the government response was DND will have to make do with funding provided.....it made this decision after it was made aware that most of this fleet of trucks was already pulled off the road deemed unsafe for military use.....they now rot in fields across the country waiting for replacement.....STILL

The 830 Mil , was used to buy heavy trucks 9 plus tones, to replace a 1.5 , 2.5, and 7 ton veh....each with their own mission and use....you can't use a one veh fits all mission approach. kind of like using a moving truck to go to 7-11 for a pop.

There are not enough project managers to keep up with the money that's already being spent. That's why so much of it is returned.

Not sure what branch of project mangers your refering to, on the military side any one can be a project manger, often made up with someone with experience in the field of the project , throw you on a few courses and bamm your a project manger.....on the PWSG side of the house it is just another commodity....no special insight required.....

But if this is the best excuse you have it's really a sad one.....and that's not why so much funding gets returned....it is the restrictions on our procurement policies that ensure money is returned.....it is to complicated and lengthy to ensure the funding is spent in a timely matter, that and DND has to hold a contingency funds in case of emergency deployments, which often gets returned as there is no time left to spend it....it also creates a massive wave of wasting it on useless things because depts. are afraid their budgets will be cut....not just a DND thing the entire government works this way.

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We don't rely on the US, we depend on the US....knowing that we know the US will do everything in its power to secure Canada and we take advantage of that......Big difference on relying on friends or taking advantage of friends which we do ....

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Switzerland doesn't rely on its friends. It simply knows that its enemies would have to pass through the territory of its friends first.

And I remind you that this country, with less than one quarter our population has a significantly more powerful military than we do.

Increase the size of the Canadian regular forces to about 500,000 and you would have about the same proportionate size to Switzerland's military.

Sure - but we have fighter jets all day long.

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Sure - but we have fighter jets all day long.

We have Russia on our northern border, and nobody on our east and west but oceans. I don't think we do a lot of air patrols along our southern border, though.

Edited by Argus
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We don't rely on the US, we depend on the US....knowing that we know the US will do everything in its power to secure Canada and we take advantage of that......Big difference on relying on friends or taking advantage of friends which we do ....

Not really - in fact, there are far more threats to us because of our proximity to the US, such as the possibility of being in the middle of a missile exchange.

The reality is, Canada doesn't have a threat to its existence. No one has yet shown me one anyway.

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We have Russia on our northern border, and nobody on our east and west but oceans. I don't think we do a lot of air patrols along our southern border, though.

Nobody on our west? Have you looked at a map?

Canada have responded to every Russian probe in the north. But I'm glad you agree that we should focus our energy on the navy and Air Force.

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Your right why is this so hard ? When I've explained to you dozens of times, not every country is in the same boat or condition as Canada,

Of course not every country. Many of them though, going by the 7 year timeline of that chart. Canada is just at the point now where it can finally make major investments in ships. It took time to get there. We have to be patient.

most of those countries in your charts have made regular purchases and have kept their militaries up todate.

I see no evidence of that. Even places like the UK and France are missing key capabilities that we posses such as air logistics (France) and maritime patrol (the UK). We have made tens of billions of dollars in purchases since 2004, with tens of billions of new purchases to come.

Here is the hard part our military has a severe shortage of almost everything, take a look at the panic the liberals are in right now to find a solution for the f-18...

That F-18 problem has existed all along - that's the point. We've never had enough. The aircraft itself is able to operate well for almost another decade with planned upgrades. Didn't you say so yourself?

So far the only answer you have provided is " every country is doing the same thing" Who gives a rat ass about what the rest of the world is doing....it does not make it ok, nor right.

You do, because you keep comparing us to every one else. If you didn't, I wouldn't bring it up.

Your wrong the government defers or holds back funding for future projects all of the time, and once again, that 2.7 bil is for yearly maintence of what we already have in inventory

No - if you actually read the chart, yearly maintenance is other.

.....very little is being used to address current short falls.....

Most of the money goes to small projects that are ongoing. About a third of it goes to large projects to replace major capabilities. That third will become a larger proportion of spending every year for the next 7 years, even with the deferral of money that we can't spend right now.

Your wrong , funding had already been set aside for the replacements of LS, ML and HL fleets, or have you forgotten that a US company is suing over cancellation of it's portion to provide trucks to Canada perhaps take a look at the FMTV veh the us army currently uses.

It's suing over losing the contract that Mack got for the military pattern vehicles.

ny s

Funding had set at 4.5 bil been has been clawed back, and reduced to the 830 mil, one of the maources I gave you covered this , the government response was DND will have to make do with funding provided.....it made this decision after it was made aware that most of this fleet of trucks was already pulled off the road deemed unsafe for military use.....they now rot in fields across the country waiting for replacement.....STILL

I haven't seen anything from you to say that - show me again.

Not sure what branch of project mangers your refering to, on the military side any one can be a project manger, often made up with someone with experience in the field of the project , throw you on a few courses and bamm your a project manger.....on the PWSG side of the house it is just another commodity....no special insight required.....

When the Liberals cut DND in the 90s they gutted the procurement department. The Conservatives then expected them to buy more things without more people. That's (part of the reason) why DND is in such procurement trouble and has to return money to the treasury that it can't spend. Why give them more when they can't spend what they get?

But if this is the best excuse you have it's really a sad one.....and that's not why so much funding gets returned....it is the restrictions on our procurement policies that ensure money is returned.....it is to complicated and lengthy to ensure the funding is spent in a timely matter, that and DND has to hold a contingency funds in case of emergency deployments, which often gets returned as there is no time left to spend it....it also creates a massive wave of wasting it on useless things because depts. are afraid their budgets will be cut....not just a DND thing the entire government works this way.

For the last few years, most operations have been paid for separately. I'm not sure if that's continued under the Liberals.

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The reality is, Canada doesn't have a threat to its existence. No one has yet shown me one anyway.

Are you really that ignorant? The largest threat to Canada, today, has been the same since Confederation.....Global instability........That could show itself in the form of a nuclear war, which would represent a direct physical threat (near end of life) to Canada or the the follow on effects of conventional and asymmetric warfare around the World on Canada.

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I see no evidence of that. Even places like the UK and France are missing key capabilities that we posses such as air logistics (France) and maritime patrol (the UK). We have made tens of billions of dollars in purchases since 2004, with tens of billions of new purchases to come.

The French have a far greater capacity for "air logistics" then Canada, likewise the British having a far greater ability for "maritime patrol" on their nations coast lines. :rolleyes:

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Are you really that ignorant? The largest threat to Canada, today, has been the same since Confederation.....Global instability........That could show itself in the form of a nuclear war, which would represent a direct physical threat (near end of life) to Canada or the the follow on effects of conventional and asymmetric warfare around the World on Canada.

An extremely unlikely scenario in other words.

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So we are to discount all of our nations interventions around the globe, such as the Boar war, WWI,WWII, korea, and the hundrds of peace keeping and peace making operations ?

I am not sure what you mean, I do not see anyone discounting all of our nations interventions. I do not see nuclear warfare happening, or see conventional and asymmetrical warfare being a threat to Canada.

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