Memories: 1789-1815 vs 1914-1945

[August1991]

Europeans, alive at the time, suffered a violent cataclysm between 1789 and 1815. Even children, born in 1810, would remember late in life the experience of this violence, dire lack of food, upheaval. As late as 1885 or so, there were people (grandparents) who remembered these times. By 1895 or so, most/all were dead.

Nowadays, some Europeans may still have direct knowledge of the upheavals between 1914 and 1945. Anyone born in 1940 (nowadays 75 years old) would remember this exceptional childhood. By 2020, most/all will be dead.

Only Europe? True, many Japanese or Americans or Canadians or Australians were born in the 1930s and they're still alive. They too may remember this 1914-1945 cataclysm.

In 2020, or 2025, they'll be dead. And the world, to use 16th century English to describe the Royal Court, "progresses".

=====

It's a fact of life that we live for about three score and ten; maybe nowadays, four score.

Edited July 4, 2016 by August1991

[Wilber]

My grandparents would have been alive before all those living during the Napoleonic wars had died and then they went through the two WW's and Great Depression themselves. Let's hope the cycle doesn't repeat itself.

[August1991]

My grandparents would have been alive before all those living during the Napoleonic wars had died and then they went through the two WW's and Great Depression themselves. Let's hope the cycle doesn't repeat itself.

Tolstoi was born in 1828, about 15 years after the Napoleonic Wars -- nowadays, we would call him a boomer.

He wrote about something that he had heard about.

=====

Wilber, I have had similar thoughts but I suspect that the grandparents of my grandparents (as yours) had other pre-occupations.

Edited July 5, 2016 by August1991

[Wilber]

Tolstoi was born in 1828, about 15 years after the Napoleonic Wars -- nowadays, we would call him a boomer.

He wrote about something that he had heard about.

Tolstoy had lots of eyewitnesses to draw on, ours are almost gone. One of them was my Dad. He went just over a year ago.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Wilber

[msj]

This reminds me a bit of Dan Carlin's Hardcore History series Wrath of the Khans. http://www.dancarlin.com/product-category/hardcore-history/classic-hardcore-history/

Basically, Dan goes on a bit of a rant about how, with distance, lots of historians ignore the deaths of tens of millions of people and view the good that came out of the empire.

People forget how much of a monster Napoleon was.

Had Hitler won he would get the Khan treatment but since he lost he will become like Napoleon: a little bit bigger of a monster.

That's what time does.

Some of us live through new coke and others couldn't care less....

Edited July 5, 2016 by msj

[Argus]

This reminds me a bit of Dan Carlin's Hardcore History series Wrath of the Khans. http://www.dancarlin.com/product-category/hardcore-history/classic-hardcore-history/

Basically, Dan goes on a bit of a rant about how, with distance, lots of historians ignore the deaths of tens of millions of people and view the good that came out of the empire.

Historians say good things came from the Mongol hordes?

Edited July 6, 2016 by Argus

[msj]

Historians say good things came from the Mongol hordes?

Yep, but one would have to read history books to find out...

[Bonam]

Historians say good things came from the Mongol hordes?

Yeah the various benefits are commonly discussed in history. For example, the renewal of the linkage and interaction and trade between the civilizations of Europe and Asia.

[msj]

Yeah the various benefits are commonly discussed in history. For example, the renewal of the linkage and interaction and trade between the civilizations of Europe and Asia.

Also look to the stories about "800 million men related to Genghis Kahn" and the like.

I could not imagine wanting to know if I had any DNA related to Napoleon or Hitler.

But many people would brag about being a distant relation of Genghis.

All thanks to time creating distance to make what he actually did less monstrous.

Edited July 6, 2016 by msj

[August1991]

Also look to the stories about "800 million men related to Genghis Kahn" and the like.

msj, you are foolishly (even wrongly) referring to how genes are transferred from one generation to another in any species.

In my original post, I was referring to how humans (people) transfer knowledge/memories from one generation to another.

=====

Anyway. Let me be racial, tribal, religious, whatever. Let me use identity politics - and go off on a tangent.

Individual French people began to understand that individuals are free to choose in the late 1700s.

Individual Germans first understood that they were free to choose in the early 1900s.

Individual Russians are beginning to understand that individuals are free to choose only now.

Individual rich Chinese and rich Indian people are beginning to understand that they are free to choose.

Edited July 6, 2016 by August1991

[msj]

msj, you are foolishly (even wrongly) referring to how genes are transferred from one generation to another in any species.

In my original post, I was referring to how humans (people) transfer knowledge/memories from one generation to another.

Yes... and I am specifically talking about how people will brag about having some kind of distant DNA connection to the monster of the 12th century because that was over 800 years ago and those Mongols were WINNERS.

In more modern times we have Hitler who was a monster who lost and we have Napoleon who was a lesser monster (no gas chambers) and lost.

Had Hitler won and made an even larger change to the DNA of this planet with further exterminations then I wonder who would be proud to have that DNA in them (perhaps just Aryan DNA would be sufficient - no need for it to be specific to Hitler since he had brown hair).

Thankfully "we" (the liberal left ) won so this is just speculation.

The point is: distance changes perspective.

Just like winners/losers effect the perspective.

No one born after ~ 1980 remembers New Coke.

Both distance from the event and winner takes all.