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Canada: The land of mediocrity


Argus

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lordy. Whats to discuss? Mediocrity? Its not all that difficult to pick anyplace in the world and point out the mediocrity of that place. Makes me wonder if there is some place that is not mediocre according to Argus. If so, would there not also be mediocre aspects to that non-mediocre place?

The whole things a pointless waste of space. May as well discuss the best sports team ever - endlessly - and convince no one of anything.

agreed! An aggrandizement if there ever was one.

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You're exactly right Argus. The left in Canada has no policy to lift people up, only to spread class warfare and resentment. And to see some sort of equality be tearing those people down who have risen farther than they're "suppose to".

It's more common to see right-wingers moaning about unionized workers making a wage that can support a family than socialists moaning about someone having a nice house.
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Good thing he made some very realistic observations then.

The person you are replying to is in my ignore list specifically because of he vast gulf between reality and most of his posts.

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lordy. Whats to discuss? Mediocrity? Its not all that difficult to pick anyplace in the world and point out the mediocrity of that place. Makes me wonder if there is some place that is not mediocre according to Argus. If so, would there not also be mediocre aspects to that non-mediocre place?

The whole things a pointless waste of space. May as well discuss the best sports team ever - endlessly - and convince no one of anything.

And yet... here you are. I have to say I find it confusing when people post on a subject to complain the subject doesn't interest them.

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It's more common to see right-wingers moaning about unionized workers making a wage that can support a family than socialists moaning about someone having a nice house.

No, it's only common to have right-wingers complaining about GOVERNMENT unionized workers making a far higher wage than their skill set and the supply/demand ratio for their jobs requires.

Advertise a job for a teacher or firefighter with a top pay of only 2/3rds the top pay of the existing government jobs and you'll have traffic chaos and people lined up around the block. There are far more qualified people wanting to work in these fields than there are openings. Why, then, do we pay almost the highest salaries in the world for these positions? Overpaying is partly why we get mediocre results. If we weren't paying firefighters nearly $100k we could have more of them and thus have faster response times. Same goes for cops. If we weren't paying so much for teachers we could have smaller classrooms and perhaps better test results. If we weren't overpaying professors and university administration staff we might have better colleges and universities with smaller classes. If we weren't overpaying health care sector workers and administrators we might have smaller wait times.

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"Overpaying is partly why we get mediocre results."

Okay, so where did the expectations of over-inflated incomes and amassing unrealistic wealth come from, overpaid tycoons, baseball players and rock stars perhaps?

The only way to amass vast fortune is with vast power. This is the fault of the little guy?

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The biggest problem with wealth and income is power, always has been and always will be. The most mediocre element in this dynamic, bar-none, is the sycophancy and toadying to power that no one provides better than right-wingers when they're dumping on lefties.

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No, it's only common to have right-wingers complaining about GOVERNMENT unionized workers making a far higher wage than their skill set and the supply/demand ratio for their jobs requires.

Advertise a job for a teacher or firefighter with a top pay of only 2/3rds the top pay of the existing government jobs and you'll have traffic chaos and people lined up around the block. There are far more qualified people wanting to work in these fields than there are openings. Why, then, do we pay almost the highest salaries in the world for these positions? Overpaying is partly why we get mediocre results. If we weren't paying firefighters nearly $100k we could have more of them and thus have faster response times. Same goes for cops. If we weren't paying so much for teachers we could have smaller classrooms and perhaps better test results. If we weren't overpaying professors and university administration staff we might have better colleges and universities with smaller classes. If we weren't overpaying health care sector workers and administrators we might have smaller wait times.

I disagree with paying professors lower wages will lead to better colleges. The issue with colleges is the fact it's much easier for people to get in even if they are not ready or are not college material. The bar is certainly lower today and I think it should be more higher with less people being accepted.

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I disagree with paying professors lower wages will lead to better colleges. The issue with colleges is the fact it's much easier for people to get in even if they are not ready or are not college material. The bar is certainly lower today and I think it should be more higher with less people being accepted.

You have X amount of money to spend on a college. If you overpay all your staff - it isn't just the teachers - then you have that much less money to spend on materials, and you have to have fewer staff, bigger classes, etc. The same is true of every other job and profession. Why is it no one talks about people being overpaid in the private sector? Because the private sector doesn't generally overpay people (you can always find one or two instances where they do). It mostly pays what it requires to get the employees qualified to do the work well. The public sector does not pay any attention to supply/demand on job wages. That is the perennial problem which has grown worse due to the cowardice of governments and their willingness to kick the problems down the road for some other guy to solve.

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There is an old joke about an American seeing a big house on a hill and vowing that he will work hard so that he too will someday have a house like that. Then a Canadian sees it, and shakes his fist up towards it, while demanding the government tax the guy more so he can't build a better house than he has.

Canada is a land of mediocrity. It is a country whose federal government is led by a man of no accomplishment, vision or particular talent, a government whose most important duty seems to be taking money from the successful in order to reward the unsuccessful. Ask a Canadian what they think is important about the federal government and they'll bring up one form of government subsidy or other, be it pogey, child care or pensions. And the last time any sizable number of Canadians decided to protest was when a bunch of welfare farmers came to Ottawa to protest a threat to their big dairy subsidies and protections.

We have a collection of even more mediocre provincial governments, which mostly can't balance a budget, some of which seem headed inexorably towards bankruptcy. They build roads which crack and break up within a year or two, and bridges which sometimes collapse before they're used, and support one of the most expensive public health care system in the world – which has some of the longest wait times in the world. They spit out red tape by the mile to enshroud anyone in the private sector who tries to build a business or create jobs. They have the most expensive teachers in the world, whose mediocrity has to be protected by tenure lest the incompetents lose their jobs for the poor results of their efforts. Don't pay any attention to those continually backsliding test results. Just watch the CBC, another incredibly mediocre Canadian institution, and be content.

Our municipal governments are incredibly expensive, but often have a lot of problems with basic tasks like garbage collection, snow clearing and sewage. They have the world's most expensive police, with much longer response times than in most western jurisdictions, and the world's most expensive firefighters, with longer response times than in most western jurisdictions. Their idiot councils usually care far more about bicycle paths and arts courts than roads and bridges.

And in the private sector we mostly have branch plants of world corporations, and some Canadian companies which only survive because of government subsidies and protection from outside competition. Where would the telcos and cable companies be if there were unrestricted competition? Where would Bombardier or the banks be? Not around any more, most likely. And who would miss them?

So how did Canada become so mediocre, and led by such mediocre people and institutions, and how can we possibly change it short of Donald Trump taking up residence at 24 Sussex?

I have found that most Canadians just don't care much about anything that goes on in Canada or what their politicians are doing to them or their taxes. What I have really noticed is that most of them are just all about themselves, a typical liberal trait, and what is good for them. And money is their God. Canadians just don't care. They are just plain politically correct and politically lazy and stupid. Like you said they are more interested in bike paths and tree planting ceremonies and lets all run for this or walk for that rather than getting concerned about real issues facing Canada today. It would appear as though the majority are asleep and will always be asleep. Zzzzzzzzz. I am Canadian, and just keep taxing me to death. :rolleyes:

PS: Maybe what Canada needs is a Trump. Maybe that person can wake them up from their slumber. Hey, you never know.

Edited by taxme
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I dunno, being mediocre among the world's best ~20 or so countries is not such a bad thing. Canada is a great place to just live your life in peace and be relatively insulated from world events and political upheaval. Growth and innovation may be muted in Canada, but so are recessions and unrest. Healthcare may not be the fastest or most efficient but it is sufficient in the vast majority of cases. The schools may not turn out the world's #1 students but the economy doesn't need the world's #1 performers, anyway.

America is the center of Western growth and innovation and is likely to remain that way for the foreseeable future, and those who value these attributes higher than "peace, order, and ok government" can move there, thanks to Canadians having the easiest access to the US job market of any non-American citizens anywhere. European countries are likely to stay in the lead on various "socially progressive" policies and we in Canada are content to let them experiment first and perhaps adopt some of these same policies later.

Mediocre is what most people want. The effort, risk, and uncertainty that comes with being exceptional is not appealing to most people.

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Mediocre is what most people want. The effort, risk, and uncertainty that comes with being exceptional is not appealing to most people.

True, and very well said. It's actually sad and inspiring at the same time. I think I would buy a T-shirt with this quote on it...but only if was written in a cool font, on sustainable, fair trade, organic cotton or Lyocell/Tencel bamboo fiber. Even when comfortably mediocre, I still have to look down on somebody. Suck it Cotton/Poly blend! Edited by Guest
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  • 3 weeks later...

There is an old joke about an American seeing a big house on a hill and vowing that he will work hard so that he too will someday have a house like that. Then a Canadian sees it, and shakes his fist up towards it, while demanding the government tax the guy more so he can't build a better house than he has.

Canada is a land of mediocrity. It is a country whose federal government is led by a man of no accomplishment, vision or particular talent, a government whose most important duty seems to be taking money from the successful in order to reward the unsuccessful. Ask a Canadian what they think is important about the federal government and they'll bring up one form of government subsidy or other, be it pogey, child care or pensions. And the last time any sizable number of Canadians decided to protest was when a bunch of welfare farmers came to Ottawa to protest a threat to their big dairy subsidies and protections.

We have a collection of even more mediocre provincial governments, which mostly can't balance a budget, some of which seem headed inexorably towards bankruptcy. They build roads which crack and break up within a year or two, and bridges which sometimes collapse before they're used, and support one of the most expensive public health care system in the world – which has some of the longest wait times in the world. They spit out red tape by the mile to enshroud anyone in the private sector who tries to build a business or create jobs. They have the most expensive teachers in the world, whose mediocrity has to be protected by tenure lest the incompetents lose their jobs for the poor results of their efforts. Don't pay any attention to those continually backsliding test results. Just watch the CBC, another incredibly mediocre Canadian institution, and be content.

Our municipal governments are incredibly expensive, but often have a lot of problems with basic tasks like garbage collection, snow clearing and sewage. They have the world's most expensive police, with much longer response times than in most western jurisdictions, and the world's most expensive firefighters, with longer response times than in most western jurisdictions. Their idiot councils usually care far more about bicycle paths and arts courts than roads and bridges.

And in the private sector we mostly have branch plants of world corporations, and some Canadian companies which only survive because of government subsidies and protection from outside competition. Where would the telcos and cable companies be if there were unrestricted competition? Where would Bombardier or the banks be? Not around any more, most likely. And who would miss them?

So how did Canada become so mediocre, and led by such mediocre people and institutions, and how can we possibly change it short of Donald Trump taking up residence at 24 Sussex?

Here is my feelings about where most Canadians stand on anything of importance. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I think that just about sums things up. :D .

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Here is my feelings about where most Canadians stand on anything of importance. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I think that just about sums things up. :D .

What the hell is "important" about some big ugly drafty money-sucking energy-guzzling monster house on a hill?

?

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The top performing students are all in the far east where teachers are not paid very well. Canada and Netherlands are in the top 5 of the westerns nations and we pay our teachers well, however, Estonia is first and they're paid quite low.

There is absolutely no correlation between teacher pay and student performance.

Paying our teachers and fire-fighters well is about keeping the middle-class alive, a concept that seems to escape you Argus. We need a middle-class.

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Paying our teachers and fire-fighters well is about keeping the middle-class alive, a concept that seems to escape you Argus. We need a middle-class.

What a nonsense argument. Over paying teachers makes it very expensive to hire teachers. This leads to over crowding in schools and a school closures. Over paying the police and firefighters leads to cuts in road maintenance, transit and city services like public libraries because the cities that pay their salaries have to balance their books.

The tax dollar is a finite resource. Using that finite resource to overpay select workers harms everyone that depends on the services governments offer. In most of the people harmed are the 'middle class' who are supposedly helped by overpaying.

Edited by TimG
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The is absolutely no correlation between teacher pay and student performance.

Paying our teachers and fire-fighters well is about keeping the middle-class alive, a concept that seems to escape you Argus. We need a middle-class.

You don't keep the middle class alive by taxing other people to pay public servants. And how healthy is a country where most of the middle class is made up of apparatchiks who work for the government, have way better pay and benefits than ordinary people, and have zero interest in change that will benefit others? The three guys who spent all day in my back yard building a pond are being taxed to pay the benefits, including pensions, of public servants. They don't get benefits or a company pension, and they don't make as much as public servants. But they're middle class, too.

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TimG, they make a whopping 70K/year on average. Ooooh, such atrocious 'overpay'.

Consider Christmas and Spring break as the equivalent of a company with four weeks vacation (there are many) and adjust pay based on 9 weeks off in the summer. That's $40/hr.

Not all that different than many other private sector jobs that require 4 years plus 1 -2 years vocational training.

Edited by BC_chick
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TimG, they make a whopping 70K/year on average.

You forget pensions and numerous other benefits and workplace rules which raise the cost to the employer. These costs must be included because they are paid by taxes. Once you include those costs an average teacher earns at least 100K.

Even then premium over private sector doing similar jobs is about 17% on the base salary - more once the benefit packages are included.

If teachers salary/benefit packages were reduced to a 10% premium private sector the number of teachers could be increased by by 15-20% for the same number of tax dollars.

Bottom line: paying a huge premium for public sector workers reduces the quantity and quality of services available to the public.

You may be able to justify rewarding the select group of people at the expense of everyone else.

I can't

Edited by TimG
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To become a CPA you need to spend as long as in school as you do become a teacher. Are CPA's overpaid??

The value of a job is determined by demand - not education. A PhD in medieval literature is worth a lot less than a 2 year course in welding. So you can't compare a CPA to a teacher. You can only compare a teacher to a teacher at private schools or other closely related professions. And when you do that comparison teachers are grossly overpaid. I can see the justification for paying a small premium - but not the 30-50% premium that we are paying today. Edited by TimG
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Physical labour is plentiful full too but it doesn't stop a tradesman from making 40+/hr. It's a bit more complex than simple supply and demand when it comes to professions, often it's about the nature of what you're doing.

A PhD is unique in that it's usually done out of passion, not for the monetary value. It's an exception.

As someone who came to a crossroads between accounting and teaching I can tell you, I went into accounting after spending one year as teacher's assistant.

It's anything but easy. They earn every penny.

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