America under President Trump

[Carlus Magnus]

Trump is a flawed human, just like the rest of us.  He makes plenty of mistakes, saying he'd look at opposition research wasn't one of them.

 

You do realize this is a political trap.  He said to see if the MSM would call this wrong, and they did.  Why you wonder?  Because Trump never did take foreign oppo research, but Hillary did.  The MSM just admitted what HRC and the DNC did was wrong.

Unemployment metrics in the US are not a clear picture of unemployment.  Presidents have been changing how the metrics are calculated since JFK.  The labor force participation is a better indicator.  Trump halted the loss and exporting of jobs that started under GW Bush, and carried through BHO. Some say it even started under BJC during the late 90s tech bubble.

 

[BubberMiley]

10 minutes ago, Carlus Magnus said:

Trump is a flawed human, just like the rest of us.  He makes plenty of mistakes, saying he'd look at opposition research wasn't one of them.

 

You do realize this is a political trap.  He said to see if the MSM would call this wrong, and they did.  Why you wonder?  Because Trump never did take foreign oppo research, but Hillary did.  The MSM just admitted what HRC and the DNC did was wrong.

 

How are people supposed to debate with you if you don't even know the difference between opposition research and taking illegally acquired information from a hostile foreign power.

Hint: the key word in the previous sentence was "power."

[Carlus Magnus]

I'm ready to debate.  I propose this.

I'll state my case and I'd appreciate if you state your case.

 

My case is that Hillary Clinton and the DNC utilized opposition research from allies and hostile foreign powers that research became known as the Steele Dossier. 

State Department official’s notes also indicate Steele claimed the Russians, Vyacheslav Trubnikov and Vladislav Surkov, were “sources” for the dossier https://dailycaller.com/2019/05/16/steele-dossier-sources-state-department/

 

Hillary Clinton and the DNC paid for opposition research from foreign agents, ultimately from Russian agents.  

[Boges]

59 minutes ago, Carlus Magnus said:

I'm ready to debate.  I propose this.

I'll state my case and I'd appreciate if you state your case.

My case is that Hillary Clinton and the DNC utilized opposition research from allies and hostile foreign powers that research became known as the Steele Dossier. 

State Department official’s notes also indicate Steele claimed the Russians, Vyacheslav Trubnikov and Vladislav Surkov, were “sources” for the dossier https://dailycaller.com/2019/05/16/steele-dossier-sources-state-department/

Hillary Clinton and the DNC paid for opposition research from foreign agents, ultimately from Russian agents.  

The Steele Dossier was initially funded by Republican opponents of Trump. 

[Carlus Magnus]

So what.  

Do  you think I am GOP vs DEM cheerleader ?  This is the Washington establishment against an outsider.  Yes the GOP probably started this, likely the Bush camp.  They should be held responsible for it as well as the HRC and DNC.  

Fact is HRC and the DNC paid for Russian disinformation, then got the FBI to weaponize it against Trump.  

[dialamah]

An interesting explanation of why people "believe" Trump: (hint, they don't).

Quote

Trump’s supporters don’t care about being lied to. You can point out the lies until you’re blue in the face, but it makes no difference to them. Why? Because it is just a game to them. The media lies, bloggers lie, politicians lie, it’s just all a bunch of lies. Facts don’t matter because those are lies also. Those trolls on Twitter, 4Chan, T_D, etc. are just having a good laugh. They are congratulating each other for being so smart. We are fools for still believing in anything. There is no cargo, and probably never was.

It's like these people have already given up on their society, or maybe humanity in general, and are thrilled to sow divisiveness.  

[DogOnPorch]

Why Trump amassed 25 million in under 24 hours...

 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

An interesting explanation of why people "believe" Trump: (hint, they don't).

It's like these people have already given up on their society, or maybe humanity in general, and are thrilled to sow divisiveness.  

I think this is what a human behavioural sink looks like.

Quote

There is no cargo, and probably never was.

I think the reference to a reverse cargo cult is apt except the airstrips are more analogous to the rule of law and where the cargo is justice.

[taxme]

8 hours ago, dialamah said:

An interesting explanation of why people "believe" Trump: (hint, they don't).

It's like these people have already given up on their society, or maybe humanity in general, and are thrilled to sow divisiveness.  

On the contrary. It is the leftist liberals/democrats that have given up on the American society. Why would people not believe in Trump? What has he said or done that makes you feel that he is worse than the deep state swampters like Obama and Hillary were when they ran the show in Washington? The likes of Hillary and Obama wanted to change and turn America into their own communist image. We have all seen what their disasterous communist image did to America when Hillary and Obama were in power and running the show. America is in a lot better shape today then it was when Hitlary and Obama Bin Lying were f'n up things. When one sees the crowds of Trump supporters at any of Trump's rallies one can only believe that Trump is doing what the people want him today and he is delivering. Only fools and idiots that keep listening to lame duck leftist liberal news media outfits and liars like CNN/MSNBC and our own anti-conservative, pro commie CBC who are all out to wreck not only America but even our own Canadian society and replace it with a multicultural/socialist different society. I have yet to see where Trudeau has gone to any liberal get together where the crowds were there by the tens of thousands who wanted to hear the dear leader speak. If he gets a couple of hundred it would be a miracle. Chuckle-chuckle. I believe that it is people like yourself that wants to change Canada into a loser communist society full of welfare and unemployed recipients and not see that Canada become great again. I would sure like to hear from you as to how you would try to make Canada great again? So, what would you do for Canada? Just asking. 

[GostHacked]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/21/politics/trump-military-strikes-iran/index.html

Quote

(CNN)A military operation to strike Iran in retaliation for the downing of a US drone was set to begin Thursday night when President Donald Trump called it off, a US official with direct knowledge of the matter told CNN.

The US military targets were a limited set of Iranian radars and missile batteries, said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the information. No US weapons had been launched when the decision was made to call it off.

You've been warned. The USA is looking for any reason to bomb Iran. Who is the real aggressor here?  Not only that, Trump would have engaged war on another nation without congressional approval. Trump is very dangerous.

Edited June 21, 2019 by GostHacked

[Dougie93]

Trump Derangement Syndrome and leftist partisan hackery aside, the origins of the confrontation in the Gulf date all the way back to Eisenhower.

It was Eisenhower who first invoked the Domino Theory, and while it was somewhat discredited by Vietnam, it didn't actually die, it was repackaged as the Carter Doctrine in 1979, this time the Dominoes were going to fall in the face of the Iranian Revolution, and ultimately a Soviet invasion of the entire region through the Caucuses.

The Domino Theory remains deeply entrenched in what Andrew Bacevich has called the Washington National Security Consensus, although, again, due to Vietnam, it is no longer called the "Domino Theory", that has been supplanted by other euphemisms.

It's quite clear that the GOP base no longer upholds the Washington National Security Consensus, that would be part and parcel of what they refer to as the "Swamp" or "Swamp Creatures", but the reality is, the Domino Theory is so deeply entrenched, that every President who comes into office is under constant pressure to adhere to the tenants of the faith, and they all genuflect to it to varying degrees, some more than others, Trump is actually one of the least inclined to that I have seen. Obama was far more inclined to cave to it, even though it was clear he didn't really believe in it, hence his attempts to abrogate responsibility by "leading from behind" as seen particularly in Libya.

One of the major reasons why Trump was elected, is that Hillary Clinton is an absolute adherent to the Washington National Security Consensus and the war weary American public was simply loathe to elect another Neoconservative Hawk.  For all his foibles, the fact of the matter is, Trump has largely delivered on his promise to be non-interventionist, so far, he's been one of the least interventionist Presidents of all time.

Apparently nobody on the left can acknowledge the truth of it, the mantra of ZOMG Trump is obviously all they got, but that's how partisan tribalism and associated  Trump Derangement Syndrome goes, who knew?

On the operational side of things, the primary constraint on the Washington National Security Consensus in terms of rushing headlong into war with Iran, is the geostrategic maritime choke point at the Strait of Hormuz, as while the US military could inflict great damage on the Iranian regime, it could not be done in one fell swoop, it would be a prolonged operation, and all through that operation, the Iranians would be able to grind maritime traffic in the Strait to a halt asymmetrically, with mines, boghammer fleets, anti-shipping missiles, torpedoes etc.

None the less, in the event of, this would be an economic windfall for Canada, as war on the Strait of Hormuz would of course spike the oil price back up towards if not exceeding $100/barrel, which is the threshold wherein Western Canadian Select becomes actually profitable.

Edited June 21, 2019 by Dougie93

[GostHacked]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

Trump Derangement Syndrome and leftist partisan hackery aside, the origins of the confrontation in the Gulf date all the way back to Eisenhower.

It was Eisenhower who first invoked the Domino Theory, and while it was somewhat discredited by Vietnam, it didn't actually die, it was repackaged as the Carter Doctrine in 1979, this time the Dominoes were going to fall in the face of the Iranian Revolution, and ultimately a Soviet invasion of the entire region through the Caucuses.

---

Apparently nobody on the left can acknowledge the truth of it, the mantra of ZOMG Trump is obviously all they got, but that's how partisan tribalism and associated  Trump Derangement Syndrome goes, who knew?

Meahwhile the rest of you focus on the left and right partisan issues, I look at it from the military telling the POTUS what will be done.  Going to war with other nations is not a Democrat or Republican thing. it's a military industrial complex thing that Eisenhower warned us about.

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

On the operational side of things, the primary constraint on the Washington National Security Consensus in terms of rushing headlong into war with Iran, is the geostrategic maritime choke point at the Strait of Hormuz, as while the US military could inflict great damage on the Iranian regime, it could not be done in one fell swoop, it would be a prolonged operation, and all through that operation, the Iranians would be able to grind maritime traffic in the Strait to a halt asymmetrically, with mines, boghammer fleets, anti-shipping missiles, torpedoes etc.

The lessons of Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen are still fresh in our minds. We sure we want to make yet ANOTHER catastrophic mistake?

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

None the less, in the event of, this would be an economic windfall for Canada, as war on the Strait of Hormuz would of course spike the oil price back up towards if not exceeding $100/barrel, which is the threshold wherein Western Canadian Select becomes actually profitable.

This is a terrible way to look at things. People will die, a nation gets trashed but as long as we can make a buck of of it. who cares who dies.

[Dougie93]

Well, as Canada is a racist Apartheid state born of military conquest, which openly admits to committing genocide, I see no particular utility in wagging moralizing fingers from your British North American high horse.

As to mortality, I think Oliver Stone summed it up nicely when he wrote;

 

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

 it's a military industrial complex thing that Eisenhower warned us about.

Rather an absurd contradiction when General Eisenhower was one of the great architects of what he called the Military Industrial Congressional Complex, but I wouldn't over interpret, Eisenhower was not in anyway saying that America should not project power by force of arms, Eisenhower's principle concern, as with all conservatives, was boondoggles to no particualr military utility.

Eisenhower was after all, as I said, the one who invented the Domino Theory, and was at the time deliberately inciting the conflict which went on to become the Vietnam War.

Go down the list of military, paramilitary, overt and covert actions on Eisenhower's watch, it surely marks him as one of the most hawkish interventionists in the history of the republic.    Exponentially more so than Donald Trump by many orders of magnitude, so the reasoning as to why Trump is an interventionist villain while Eisenhower is some sort of paragon of non interventionist pacifism, escapes me.

So again, putting aside the political tribalism of hysterical nonsense peddling sycophants of the race hustling Democrat Party Plantation Aristocracy, the facts are that Trump is by this juncture, one of least military interventionist Presidents of all time.

Edited June 21, 2019 by Dougie93

[GostHacked]

14 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Rather an absurd contradiction when General Eisenhower was one of the great architects of what he called the Military Industrial Congressional Complex, but I wouldn't over interpret, Eisenhower was not in anyway saying that America should not project power by force of arms, Eisenhower's principle concern, as with all conservatives, was boondoggles to no particualr military utility.

Eisenhower was after all, as I said, the one who invented the Domino Theory, and was at the time deliberately inciting the conflict which went on to become the Vietnam War.

Go down the list of military, paramilitary, overt and covert actions on Eisenhower's watch, it surely marks him as one of the most hawkish interventionists in the history of the republic.    Exponentially more so than Donald Trump by many orders of magnitude, so the reasoning as to why Trump is an interventionist villain while Eisenhower is some sort of paragon of non interventionist pacifism, escapes me.

Well this is decades later, regardless of Eisenhower overseeing the birth of the Industrial military Complex during his administration, he warned everyone about it and that it a very dangerous thing and he was 100% correct.  We did not listen so this is why the US military is now global in reach and scope.

Iran is quite stupid to build it's nation right beside all the US military bases.

[Dougie93]

8 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Well this is decades later, regardless of Eisenhower overseeing the birth of the Industrial military Complex during his administration, he warned everyone about it and that it a very dangerous thing and he was 100% correct.  We did not listen so this is why the US military is now global in reach and scope.

Iran is quite stupid to build it's nation right beside all the US military bases.

Well, as I have said, the decades in between have not as of yet resulted in the discrediting of Eisenhower's Domino Theory, so Eisenhower remains the cause, although Jimmy Carter was the one who took the Domino Theory up again in the wake of Vietnam, transferring it from Indochina to the Middle East, by rebranding it as the Carter Doctrine.

The Carter Doctrine is by this point simply another zombie Cold War legacy project driven on by institutional inertia, for so long in fact, the public now has completely forgotten the origins of it.

That being said, none of this is Donald Trump's fault, and in fact, Donald Trump is the first President to actually ever disavow it in any way, so rather than Trump being a monstrous danger to peace, he is rather a sign of progress in terms of discrediting the Domino Theory, whatever other foibles he may present, he is not a hawkish interventionist, despite your hysterical nonsense blathering Trump Derangement Syndrome alarmism.

[Dougie93]

Now,  this is not to say that the GOP base is motivated by some sort of humanitarian pacifist impulse, but they have at least turned on the Neoconservative Reagan Democrat permanent global interventionists in the wake of successive humiliating failures, preferring instead to adopt a Fortress America model, wherein King Dollah rules the waves and maintains full spectrum dominance, while simply not chasing every threat down rabbit holes ashore to micromanage world affairs with a three thousand mile screwdriver.

Which is progress and they should be commended for it, although obviously, again, political tribalism precludes that, not being a political tribalist myself, I appropriately salute them for their efforts in this regard.

There are certainly many things I do not commend them for, from mindless knee jerk protectionism to scapegoating of immigrants, none the less, in this regard they are on the ball.

Ironically though, mindless knee jerk protectionism and scapegoating immigration for the loss of industrial work are long standing Democrat Party unionist positions which have now migrated to the GOP along with the industrial working classes of the Rust Belt.

In essence, the GOP is becoming what the Democrats used to be, which I am no fan of, while the Democrats are going off the deep end into proto communist totalitarianism, which is insane.

Which is why you should probably brace yourself for four more years of Trump, not because of Trump so much, simply because the Democrats are seemingly determined to,  for the second election in a row, blow themselves up in the name of Cultural Marxist thought crime and whatnot.

Probably should brace yourself for at least four years of Mike Pence after Trump is done, because the last time the Democrats went off the deep end, they handed the White House to the Republicans for twelve years straight, and even in the hippie dippie 1970's the Democrats were not as koo-koo cray-cray as they now.

Edited June 21, 2019 by Dougie93

[GostHacked]

22 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Well, as I have said, the decades in between have not as of yet resulted in the discrediting of Eisenhower's Domino Theory, so Eisenhower remains the cause, although Jimmy Carter was the one who took the Domino Theory up again in the wake of Vietnam, transferring it from Indochina to the Middle East, by rebranding it as the Carter Doctrine.

The Carter Doctrine is by this point simply another zombie Cold War legacy project driven on by institutional inertia, for so long in fact, the public now has completely forgotten the origins of it.

That being said, none of this is Donald Trump's fault, and in fact, Donald Trump is the first President to actually ever disavow it in any way, so rather than Trump being a monstrous danger to peace, he is rather a sign of progress in terms of discrediting the Domino Theory, whatever other foibles he may present, he is not a hawkish interventionist, despite your hysterical nonsense blathering Trump Derangement Syndrome alarmism.

Trump was HOURS away from striking Iranian targets before it was called off. HOURS away. Not days, not week, not months. Meaning they has all the military assests in place (and they've been doing this for years now)

This is as much Trump's fault as every President that came before him that did not change this course. This is ingrained into US political system.   Aka declaring war on another nation. But we've moved past the Domino Theory and the Carter Doctrine, and even past the Cold War doctrines. We are in uncharted territory.

Trump said he would not bomb anyone,  so far it's been continuing the bombing of Syria that started under Obama. Helping Saudi Arabia commit genocide in Yemen and now tying to slap Russia and China around somewhat.

Trump is absolutely hawkish. Pulling the USA out of the Iranian nuclear deal. Putting more sanctions on Iran. All with the intention to provoke Iran to do something that can be used as an excuse to bomb the fuck out of another nation. Again we were merely HOURS away from what could have been a very large war. IF the USA goes Into Iran. They will have Russia to deal with. Trump is hawkish, and maybe just stupid enough to engage in another war that will ultimately fail.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/obama-others-warned-trump-pulling-out-iran-nuke-deal-could-n1020461

Quote

WASHINGTON — To supporters of the Iran nuclear deal, it's no surprise that President Donald Trump is now facing a potential war with Iran.

Long before Trump was elected, advocates of the nuclear agreement — including then-President Barack Obama, French President Emmanuel Macron and others — had argued that abandoning the accord carried grave risks that could lead to an armed conflict.

"So let's not mince words. The choice we face is ultimately between diplomacy or some form of war — maybe not tomorrow, maybe not three months from now, but soon," Obama said in a speech in 2015 defending the deal before a congressional vote.

Trump as a candidate vowed to dump what he called "the worst deal ever" and he made good on his promise in 2018. A year later, Trump is openly discussing the pros and cons of bombing Iran.

 

[Shady]

On 6/21/2019 at 7:26 AM, GostHacked said:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/21/politics/trump-military-strikes-iran/index.html

You've been warned. The USA is looking for any reason to bomb Iran. Who is the real aggressor here?  Not only that, Trump would have engaged war on another nation without congressional approval. Trump is very dangerous.

President's have been engaging in war without congressional approval for decades.  I agree though, it's wrong, and it's a power that congress should re-take.

[Shady]

On 6/17/2019 at 12:36 PM, BubberMiley said:

How are people supposed to debate with you if you don't even know the difference between opposition research and taking illegally acquired information from a hostile foreign power.

Hint: the key word in the previous sentence was "power."

Complete and utter nonsense.  The Trump campaign didn't take any illegally acquired information.  None.  The Democrats hired a foreign agent, to dig up foreign dirt on a presidential candidate.  The agent hired gathered an abundance of information, most of which has never been corroborated.  Further, we have no idea how the information from the foreign agent was gathered, and whether it was gathered legally or illegally.  One thing is true.  The Democrats took and used foreign information from foreign sources.  Donald Trump never did, but was accused of doing so.  

[BubberMiley]

3 hours ago, Shady said:

Complete and utter nonsense.  The Trump campaign didn't take any illegally acquired information.  None.  The Democrats hired a foreign agent, to dig up foreign dirt on a presidential candidate.  The agent hired gathered an abundance of information, most of which has never been corroborated.  Further, we have no idea how the information from the foreign agent was gathered, and whether it was gathered legally or illegally.  One thing is true.  The Democrats took and used foreign information from foreign sources.  Donald Trump never did, but was accused of doing so.  

You must have forgotten about Donald Jr.'s meeting with the Russian spies. The only thing you know for sure is that Trump successfully obstructed the investigation into Russian meddling. Now you're hoping against hope he gets away with it, because you're all in on authoritarianism.  

[GostHacked]

On 6/25/2019 at 1:07 PM, Shady said:

President's have been engaging in war without congressional approval for decades.  I agree though, it's wrong, and it's a power that congress should re-take.

It's the power they have, but won't use it. Why?

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

It's the power they have, but won't use it. Why?

Because they approve of Trump's usurpation.

[Neil Austen]

[GostHacked]

On 6/30/2019 at 10:51 AM, eyeball said:

Because they approve of Trump's usurpation.

So the US government does not even follow it's own rules. That sounds like a rogue government to me.