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Argus

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We don't HAVE a really bad economy. We have an economy which took a hit from oil but is returning nicely, thanks.

And if savings can be a problem what's with the Ontario Liberals forcing middle class people to kick billions into their new pension scheme?

We DO have a bad economy. And commodities are not the only problem. We have a huge housing bubble that cant be corrected without a recession, dangerously low household savings rates resulting from irresponsibly easy credit conditions, and huge intervention by the government in the form of monetary easing since 2007.

We have an economy that's been kept afloat (barely) by a period of economic easing that's literally unprecedented in our history.

Canadian Economic Confidence Remains at Lowest Point in Over 20 Years

Our economy is in way worse shape than it was in the middle of the great recession. The government has been propping up the housing market behind the scenes with policies designed to further inflate the bubble. The amount of taxpayer backed mortgages tripled under the previous government as they desperate dumped money into the system at near zero interest rates to keep the house of cards standing. And consumer spending has been propped up by people borrowing on the equity in their homes... equity that has no basis in reality and will evaporate when the inevitable correction comes.

If you look at current macro-economic conditions it becomes painfully obvious exactly how much trouble we are in. Definitely the worst position since the early 90's and quite possibly the worst position since the early 80's.

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From the linked article within your source:

"Liberals won power with a campaign that promised new spending based on four years of deficits totalling $26.1-billion. Now in office, the Liberals are budgeting for five years of deficits totalling more than $113-billion"

Good point. That's a huge difference that should be pointed out. It's not "just a few billions", it's over 70 billion difference.

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Great budget. A nice change from the cut and burn budget we experienced many years under Harperism. Harperism also created a $50+ billion plus deficit when the economy needed it and then they cut and burned many years to keep their promise of balanced budget by 2015 (which they missed anyways) no matter who or how many they hurt they went ahead stubbornly. This liberal budget is a compassionate budget which starts with 30 billion deficit (almost HALF the deficit that Conservatives created and started in 2008-2009) and will very gradually reduce the deficit without hurting millions of citizens (contrary to what the conservatives did).

Long Live Liberal Party of Canada under Trudeau.

Thanks for the laugh , always good to hear from another delusional Liberal supporter . You mean the budget that the Conservatives where forced into by the Liberals and NDP when they had a minority government ? The Conservatives steered Canada through the worst economic downturn since the great depression while the village idiot we have now racks up a 30 billion dollar deficits and we aren't even in recession. Canada is on the same path as Ontario and how is that working out ? Like really high taxes and jeopardizing your children's futures with massive debt ? Remember , Trudeau is a feminist not an economist.

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We DO have a bad economy. And commodities are not the only problem. We have a huge housing bubble that cant be corrected without a recession, dangerously low household savings rates resulting from irresponsibly easy credit conditions, and huge intervention by the government in the form of monetary easing since 2007.

And how is borrowing tens of billions of dollars to spend it on tax breaks, more generous unemployment, and better cheques for the elderly going to have any positive impact on any of that?

You've spoken about your fears before that the economy is going to tank. Well, maybe it will in a year or two or three or four. Be nice to have the ability to borrow a lot of money then, WHEN NEEDED. Unfortunately, we're borrowing it now to pay for more generous welfare and to give tax breaks to people only making $60-$70-$80-$90,000. That will leave us much less room to maneuver if there is a big crash.

Edited by Argus
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And how is borrowing tens of billions of dollars to spend it on tax breaks, more generous unemployment, and better cheques for the elderly going to have any positive impact on any of that?

I admire you for wanting to bring reason and accountability to the Liberal equation but I am afraid you are wasting your time as these dullards are incapable of either . Liberals promised 3 consecutive 10 billion dollar deficits and a balanced budget year 4 but are going to deliver 4 massive deficits totaling over 100 billion yet their blind muppet followers are still waving the flag thinking this is good . When they get jobs and move out of their parents basement suites start a family they will then realize how stupid it was to support such a failed plan , maybe . Can't help stupid !

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I admire you for wanting to bring reason and accountability to the Liberal equation but I am afraid you are wasting your time as these dullards are incapable of either . Liberals promised 3 consecutive 10 billion dollar deficits and a balanced budget year 4 but are going to deliver 4 massive deficits totaling over 100 billion yet their blind muppet followers are still waving the flag thinking this is good . When they get jobs and move out of their parents basement suites start a family they will then realize how stupid it was to support such a failed plan , maybe . Can't help stupid !

please sir! Let's have you 'raise your game' here... you keep referring to those you disagree with... (or PM Trudeau directly) as "dullards... the little dullard"... "pathetic Liberals"... "stupid"... "idiots"... "living in their parents basement"... "going to university; i.e. not real-world workers"... "feminist men... feminist Trudeau"... "villiage idiots"... "loser"...

please stop the needless denigrating personalization... it would be a shame to lose your comedic relief/presence.

.

Edited by waldo
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Thanks for the laugh , always good to hear from another delusional Liberal supporter . You mean the budget that the Conservatives where forced into by the Liberals and NDP when they had a minority government ? The Conservatives steered Canada through the worst economic downturn since the great depression while the village idiot we have now racks up a 30 billion dollar deficits and we aren't even in recession. Canada is on the same path as Ontario and how is that working out ? Like really high taxes and jeopardizing your children's futures with massive debt ? Remember , Trudeau is a feminist not an economist.

Thank you for bringing up a point that the Koolaid drinkers always miss. The performance of the economy during a particular government's rule is greatly affected by the overall world economy. Harper had the misfortune of guiding things through an horrible period.

Now, in total, he made some grave mistakes on the social side, but economically he is golden, IMO of course. Trudeau is becoming the opposite.

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Harper had the misfortune of guiding things through an horrible period.

Now, in total, he made some grave mistakes on the social side, but economically he is golden, IMO of course.

not that ole chestnut again... from a prior waldo post:

" the 2008 recession barely impacted upon Canada... 3 quarters period... - per StatsCan: Canada's (first Harper) recession was the shortest and mildest among the countries that make up the G7... lasting all of 3 quarters!

"Canada's 'mild & short" recession resulted more from how Canada was positioned going into the recession; positioned as a result of policy/actions over the prior decade where the Liberal federal governments had budget and trade surpluses for most of that prior decade. Of course, Canada's banks were solid and there was no ongoing/pending housing bubble. All of this helped to diminish any credit crunch when banks ultimately tightened up on loans. Additionally high commodity prices helped to reduce the initial recession impact; effectively Canada entered the recession well after most other countries. Milder, shorter and entered later... resulting in, again, only a 3 quarter recession.""

.

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And how is borrowing tens of billions of dollars to spend it on tax breaks, more generous unemployment, and better cheques for the elderly going to have any positive impact on any of that?

You've spoken about your fears before that the economy is going to tank. Well, maybe it will in a year or two or three or four. Be nice to have the ability to borrow a lot of money then, WHEN NEEDED. Unfortunately, we're borrowing it now to pay for more generous welfare and to give tax breaks to people only making $60-$70-$80-$90,000. That will leave us much less room to maneuver if there is a big crash.

Governments aren't going to wait until then. NO government is ever. They have very limited toolbox for dealing with the economy and for the most part are at the mercy of it. Your criticism isn't really even about this government or this budget... You're essentially criticizing the whole Keynesian economic management model that has been used by every government in the west for many many decades both conservative and liberal.

If a government is worried about the economy they ease. They try to get and keep more money swirling around in the economy to stimulate growth. They can do this with spending, or tax cuts, or monetary/credit easing but the result is the same.

That's why you are seeing the liberals basically carry on with massive easing program that the Conservatives had in place. They are doing the exact same thing just in a different way. And both were/are acting out of desperation.

Edited by dre
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Thank you for bringing up a point that the Koolaid drinkers always miss. The performance of the economy during a particular government's rule is greatly affected by the overall world economy. Harper had the misfortune of guiding things through an horrible period.

Our economic position is MUCH worse now though than it was in 2007/2008, which is why Canadians have the lowest confidence in our economy in the last 20 years. We have been in a period of desperate economic easing for almost a decade, and the liberals now inherit a central bank with no more big guns to fire, a massive housing bubble, a commodity crash, and record levels of household debt.

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Governments aren't going to wait until then. NO government is ever. They have very limited toolbox for dealing with the economy and for the most part are at the mercy of it. Your criticism isn't really even about this government or this budget... You're essentially criticizing the whole Keynesian economic management model that has been used by every government in the west for many many decades both conservative and liberal.

If a government is worried about the economy they ease. They try to get and keep more money swirling around in the economy to stimulate growth. They can do this with spending, or tax cuts, or monetary/credit easing but the result is the same.

That's why you are seeing the liberals basically carry on with massive easing program that the Conservatives had in place. They are doing the exact same thing just in a different way. And both were/are acting out of desperation.

I think he is saying this government lied about their financial intentions and the majority of Canadians know they are completely incompetent and have no idea how to handle a G8 economy . Bottom line is Canadian tax payers will show these idiots the door and give them a kick in their ass on the way out in 2019 !

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Thanks for the laugh , always good to hear from another delusional Liberal supporter . You mean the budget that the Conservatives where forced into by the Liberals and NDP when they had a minority government ? The Conservatives steered Canada through the worst economic downturn since the great depression while the village idiot we have now racks up a 30 billion dollar deficits and we aren't even in recession. Canada is on the same path as Ontario and how is that working out ? Like really high taxes and jeopardizing your children's futures with massive debt ? Remember , Trudeau is a feminist not an economist.

What a load of ****. Trudeau is the son the a prime minister not a farmer and born in Ottawa not some remote village to be a village idiot (and this shows your nature and hate and discredit you for everything else that you had said or will say) and we were in recession last six months of Harper and will be again if no action taken. The falling oil has been devastating for Canadian economy. He is investing for Canada's children by low interest money like when you borrow money to buy a house. What makes Trudeau the best is indeed that fact that he is a feminist. I wish there were more guys like him.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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please sir! Let's have you 'raise your game' here... you keep referring to those you disagree with... (or PM Trudeau directly) as "dullards... the little dullard"... "pathetic Liberals"... "stupid"... "idiots"... "living in their parents basement"... "going to university; i.e. not real-world workers"... "feminist men... feminist Trudeau"... "villiage idiots"... "loser"...

please stop the needless denigrating personalization... it would be a shame to lose your comedic relief/presence.

.

You forgot moron , glad I could help. While Liberals destroy Canada you think I am going to thank you for it ? Not likely . Consider me the voice for all the children that will inherit this mess.

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You forgot moron , glad I could help. While Liberals destroy Canada you think I am going to thank you for it ? Not likely . Consider me the voice for all the children that will inherit this mess.

Seriously, moron? And you have never directly addressed why our PM is lesser of an individual because he identifies as being a feminist. Again, is this a bad thing?

Why are you here except to insult?

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Governments aren't going to wait until then. NO government is ever. They have very limited toolbox for dealing with the economy and for the most part are at the mercy of it. Your criticism isn't really even about this government or this budget... You're essentially criticizing the whole Keynesian economic management model that has been used by every government in the west for many many decades both conservative and liberal.

Even the keynesians suggested borrowing when the economy was in recession and paying it back later, not borrowing just to get yourself elected and spending it on making people happy.

The evidence is mixed about whether even that has much real impact, especially when you screw it up as governments have a tendency to do. There's precious little evidence the much greater 'economic incentive' spending done by Harper had much impact other than to increase the debt.

Edited by Argus
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and we were in recession last six months of Harper and will be again if no action taken.

We were in a technical recession due to the sudden impact of low oil prices which caused the oil industry to halt expansion and then lay people off. That has now achieved a kind of equilibrium and the economy is expanding again.

The falling oil has been devastating for Canadian economy.

By increasing the unemployment rate by a half percentage point?

He is investing for Canada's children by low interest money like when you borrow money to buy a house.

He's not buying a house, and he's sticking those children with a massive bill they will labour under their whole lives, paying huge taxes in order to pay the interest on those loans their parents took out.

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not that ole chestnut again... from a prior waldo post:

" the 2008 recession barely impacted upon Canada... 3 quarters period... - per StatsCan: Canada's (first Harper) recession was the shortest and mildest among the countries that make up the G7... lasting all of 3 quarters!

"Canada's 'mild & short" recession resulted more from how Canada was positioned going into the recession; positioned as a result of policy/actions over the prior decade where the Liberal federal governments had budget and trade surpluses for most of that prior decade. Of course, Canada's banks were solid and there was no ongoing/pending housing bubble. All of this helped to diminish any credit crunch when banks ultimately tightened up on loans. Additionally high commodity prices helped to reduce the initial recession impact; effectively Canada entered the recession well after most other countries. Milder, shorter and entered later... resulting in, again, only a 3 quarter recession.""

.

And many economists have said that Canada's relative mild affect of the toxic asset meltdown was due to Paul Martin's regulations and the Harper government's guidance.

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Seriously, moron? And you have never directly addressed why our PM is lesser of an individual because he identifies as being a feminist. Again, is this a bad thing?

Why are you here except to insult?

As I have stated before the job should always go to the most qualified person regardless of age , sex , sexual preference , nationality etc. Gender equality numbers are insulting to women , they should get the job on their own merit not because they are meeting a quota . The fact that he has a ratio shows it's all about optics and nothing more . Do you stop at 50 % if the reality dictates that 75 % of the cabinet positions should go to women then that is what it should be at that moment? If you stick with the policy that the most qualified person wins you will never have discrimination and the strongest team possible . If Trudeau had any private sector experience he would realize that , guess that doesn't come up when your a P/T teacher . Remember it is 2016 after all.

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What a load of ****. Trudeau is the son the a prime minister not a farmer and born in Ottawa not some remote village to be a village idiot (and this shows your nature and hate and discredit you for everything else that you had said or will say) and we were in recession last six months of Harper and will be again if no action taken. The falling oil has been devastating for Canadian economy. He is investing for Canada's children by low interest money like when you borrow money to buy a house. What makes Trudeau the best is indeed that fact that he is a feminist. I wish there were more guys like him.

Justin Trudeau is the son of Pierre Elliot Trudeau former PM of Canada and self professed communist . Let me get this straight , he is racking up massive debt for the sake of Canada's children ? That is an interesting view point since it will be our children paying for his incompetence today spread out over many years in the future. Please look up Ontario's deficit and debt numbers and let me know what you find. That is a prime example of incompetent Liberal leaders destroying future generations ability to get ahead . FYI Ontario now has the world's largest sub sovereign debt , twice that of California , and pays over 1 billion a month to just interest on their massive debt . How is that helping the children from your Liberal perspective ?

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He's not buying a house, and he's sticking those children with a massive bill they will labour under their whole lives, paying huge taxes in order to pay the interest on those loans their parents took out.

This is pure speculation.

Based on projections by either government or private sector economists the debt burden on Canadians wont change much. Canada would end up with a slightly LOWER debt/gdp ratio than we have now, and in terms of real value the national debt will be about the same size as it is today.

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This is pure speculation.

Based on projections by either government or private sector economists the debt burden on Canadians wont change much. Canada would end up with a slightly LOWER debt/gdp ratio than we have now, and in terms of real value the national debt will be about the same size as it is today.

What fictitious inflation rate had to be assumed to come to that conclusion? Several economists I have read disagree with your economists.

Edited by RNG
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What fictitious inflation rate had to be assumed to come to that conclusion? Several economists I have read disagree with your economists.

The likely deficit over the next few years is 80-90 billion which would increase the 1.2 trillion national debt by about 7%. Inflation will most likely average out to somewhere near 1.5% which will also amount to roughly 7% over the same period. We will owe a larger number of tokens than we do today... but no more in terms of real output.

Keep in mind these are all projections. Nobody knows what will happen with economic growth, inflation, or deficits.

Edited by dre
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The likely deficit over the next few years is 80-90 billion which would increase the 1.2 trillion national debt by about 7%. Inflation will most likely average out to somewhere near 1.5% which will also amount to roughly 7% over the same period. We will owe a larger number of tokens than we do today... but no more in terms of real output.

Keep in mind these are all projections. Nobody knows what will happen with economic growth, inflation, or deficits.

At present, we are using 10% of federal revenue to service the debt. What happens when the interest rates finally succumb to all the QE the west has been "enjoying" recently?

Low or no debt is still the safe way. Why should my grandkids have to pay for Trudeau's vote buying today?

Edited by RNG
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At present, we are using 10% of federal revenue to service the debt. What happens when the interest rates finally succumb to all the QE the west has been "enjoying" recently?

Low or no debt is still the safe way. Why should my grandkids have to pay for Trudeau's vote buying today?

I agree there's risk, and all this easy credit and private and public borrowing could present big problems.

But in most plausible scenarios your grand kids will inherit a more management debt position than everyone else in the modern world.

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At present, we are using 10% of federal revenue to service the debt. What happens when the interest rates finally succumb to all the QE the west has been "enjoying" recently?

Low or no debt is still the safe way. Why should my grandkids have to pay for Trudeau's vote buying today?

Sorry to say but our kids and grand kids will be paying for these mistakes made by the Liberal party of Canada because they are entitled and have no sense of fiscal responsibility , kick the can down the road , not our problem !

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