Is Democracy Dying?

[Argus]

There are only 20 full democracies in the world, according to the Economist down from 24 the previous year, and democracy is in retreat all across the world, with autocratic rule rising and strengthening and waving its elbows around. Even in the full democracies the whole system seems tired, with many people fed up with unrepresentative government, or government which is incompetent and seems to be nothing but a talking shop for the chattering classes. On the international scene democracies seem hesitant and reluctant to get involved anywhere outside their own territories.

While Russia and China boldly push outward, with double digit yearly increases in military spending, espionage, sabotage, and expansion, the democracies are timid and afraid of confrontation, and are slashing military spending year after year. Obama accused Britain and France of not pulling their weight on such things any more, but the US isn't doing much either, with Obama's dithering reluctance to take strong action anywhere. Russia is sponsoring extremist groups across Europe and interfering with government parties there while China is building and arming a giant island in the middle of highly disputed waters, apparently intent on taking them over by default. What does the US do or say? Nothing.

One can easily see more of the European democracies falling back in the coming years, particularly in areas like Greece, Italy, and even France.

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/glavin-democracys-long-march-backwards

[bjre]

Democracy is never beyond a lie.

Ancient Greece democracy was for noble people only.

Washington’s democracy was not include the slaves in his family of cause.

Lincoln “liberate” include black slaves into democracy, but killed countless native people, did he ever care about the right of the aboriginal people?

Nowadays, democracy is still no more than a lie, mass media controls most people’s thoughts, makes most people think the way the boss of mass media wants them to think, that’s why those who control the mass media, who control main search engine, they control the behavior of the governments.

Democracy never make economy grows, you may mention the old times, however, previous economy grow was based on robbery rather than democracy, when US slave the whole world, US behave just like a pirate, takes the wealth created by others by robbery with the help of its battle ships and International laws.

This kind of development is not sustainable.

If you really believe democracy, then, it is better abolish all current laws that created by the “representatives” who can never represent me and most others. We should reconsider every laws item by item and elect those items, rather than a person.

If you insist that someone need to be trusted to do those work for you, I believe the Chinese system is much better than the western democracy system. In that system, each government official must have enough experience of the immediate lower level job to be able to be promoted to the immediate above job title. In this way, they can avoid no experience people such as JT, Obama from take important jobs to do silly things to make all people to pay for their mistakes.

[Topaz]

Don't u think that if countries mind their own business and stop stir the pot, that world would be a lot happier and peaceful. It would also bring down the debt of countries because if the world is peaceful, the need for military action would be less or nil. Can u imagine that...peace in the world. The world has a short period of it after Nam but now there is a generation or two, that only knows the world at war. Sad really. In my view, maybe if people would vote for the leadership of their country for the person they think would be a positive leader rather voting for any certain party, it would help.

[TimG]

I believe the Chinese system is much better than the western democracy system.

The system which wealthy Chinese are stepping over each other to escape?

The virtue of democracy is it allows for a house cleaning without bloodshed. i.e. the existing power holders can be tossed out and replaced with a new group of people. This brings new energy and purpose into a government and allows for radical shifts in direction. Technocracies look after the interests of the people in power first which makes radical change impossible. The ability for renewal makes democracy a better system in the long run.

In that system, each government official must have enough experience of the immediate lower level job to be able to be promoted to the immediate above job title.

In China one's ability to advance is determined more by who one knows than what one knows. Successful enterprises without 'government partners' are killed off. These partners have to be bought and if someone buys off the wrong person (i.e. someone on the losing end of political fight) then the business is put in jeopardy. Edited March 13, 2016 by TimG

[bjre]

While Russia and China boldly push outward,

It is US boldly push outward, instead of Russia and China. US use its rumor machines to make chaos everywhere in the world include Ukraine to make them crack the democracy elected government so that it can expand NATO into Ukraine that make Russia feel cornered, that makes Russia fight back.

, with double digit yearly increases in military spending, espionage, sabotage, and expansion,

It is US spent military budget that is more than the sum of other countries. It is US spy on Merkel’s cellphone. Are you so sure about JT’s cell phone not spied by US when Snowton is still stay in Russia now.

the democracies are timid and afraid of confrontation,

That’s a joke. Almost every war after WWII has US in the front or in the background.

and are slashing military spending year after year. Obama accused Britain and France of not pulling their weight on such things any more, but the US isn't doing much either, with Obama's dithering reluctance to take strong action anywhere. Russia is sponsoring extremist groups across Europe and interfering with government parties there while China is building and arming a giant island in the middle of highly disputed waters,

It is after US Navy back to the Philippines.

apparently intent on taking them over by default.

Do you have anything to say when US take Hawaii?

In China case, China has use those Islands for thousands of years, long before US take North America land from aboriginal people.

What does the US do or say? Nothing.

Clearly that the reason the world is not peace is because of US, US did not use its strong military power and propaganda power to make the world peace, US make it as a profit tool instead include profit from Canada and sail in Canadian NWP.

Do you have anything to say about US’s aggressive behaviors after WWII, that lead to millions of people die in those wars? Nothing?

[Bryan]

Even here, democracy gets eroded with each new law that gets passed. If you're regulating what people can and cannot say, what products they are allowed to buy, or what they do in the privacy of their own homes, you cannot credibly claim to be running a free society.

[Argus]

Don't u think that if countries mind their own business and stop stir the pot, that world would be a lot happier and peaceful.

Yes. But I think if only western countries stop, leaving the stirring of the pot entirely to brutal autocracies then the world will be less happy and more violent. Witness Syria. Witness Libya. Witness Ukraine. Witness Sudan and South Sudan. Witness Georgia. Witness China and the south China Sea. Witness Turkey and Poland.

[The_Squid]

Even here, democracy gets eroded with each new law that gets passed. If you're regulating what people can and cannot say, what products they are allowed to buy, or what they do in the privacy of their own homes, you cannot credibly claim to be running a free society.

Of course you can have limits on freedoms and still have a free society. All democracies have limits on freedoms.

Should you be allowed to dump your used motor oil into a creek?

Should an employer tell employees to not bother with hardhats because it costs too much?

The mantra of "more laws = less freedom" is just sloganeering. It's meaningless. You can look at individual laws and assess how they might infringe upon one's freedoms and make an argument against it, but making blanket statements like that is useless.

[Bryan]

Of course you can have limits on freedoms and still have a free society. All democracies have limits on freedoms.

Should you be allowed to dump your used motor oil into a creek?

Should an employer tell employees to not bother with hardhats because it costs too much?

The mantra of "more laws = less freedom" is just sloganeering. It's meaningless. You can look at individual laws and assess how they might infringe upon one's freedoms and make an argument against it, but making blanket statements like that is useless.

You'll notice that nothing you posted here actually pertains to the examples I actually wrote in my post.

[The_Squid]

You'll notice that nothing you posted here actually pertains to the examples I actually wrote in my post.

Your examples were vague, at best...

can and cannot say

No one has the freedom to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theatre when there is no fire.

what products they are allowed to buy

You can't buy grenades for very good reason. (is that what you meant?)

what they do in the privacy of their own homes

You can't use your yard to store asbestos, or your home as a pawn shop without the proper permits. In all 3 cases that you cite, there are perfectly reasonable limits on your "freedoms".

I think if you were more specific, rather than claiming any laws mean less freedom, you might even be correct. But blanket statements and vague references don't do much to further your point.

Edited March 14, 2016 by The_Squid

[bush_cheney2004]

Do you have anything to say about US’s aggressive behaviors after WWII, that lead to millions of people die in those wars? Nothing?

What's so special about post WW2 and U.S. military interventions, when "gunboat diplomacy" and wars go back to the Barbary Pirates in the early 1800's? Several members here often invoke "post WW2" criticism of American foreign policy because prior to that such military actions have often served their historic interest. In the case of China, one can easily see that if not for the "aggressive" Americans and allies, China might still be occupied by the Imperial Japanese Army.

Democracy is alive and well, and sometimes democracy chooses to violently assert itself for national interests.

[bjre]

Clearly that the reason the world is not peace is because of US, US did not use its strong military power and propaganda power to make the world peace, US make it as a profit tool instead include profit from Canada and sail in Canadian NWP.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/proposed-beaufort-licences-infringe-arctic-sovereignty-1.3498469

Proposed U.S. Beaufort Sea drilling leases infringe on Canada's sovereignty, says Yukon

Area proposed for drilling includes a 21,000-sq-km section of offshore territory disputed by Canada

By Chris Windeyer, CBC News Posted: Mar 19, 2016 9:00 AM CT Last Updated: Mar 20, 2016 8:20 AM CT

Last week, the U.S. Bureau of Ocean Energy Management issued a proposal for new leases off the coast of Alaska. The map of the area that could be opened to drilling includes offshore territory Canada claims as its own.

For decades, the U.S and Canada have disagreed about the offshore boundary in the Beaufort. Canada claims it runs due North following the land border between Yukon and Alaska's North Slope. The U.S. maintains the sea border should go out at a 90-degree angle from the land.

I think it will be wonderful if the land border between Canada and Alaska can go inside at a 90-degree angle from that point to the Pacific Ocean.

[Cruze]

No Democracy isn't Dying.

If you kill Democracy,you kill ambition.

Democracy gave us the Internet and those beautiful large screen TVs lol.

Democracy gave us the PS3 and those great games

Democracy gave us those great cars coming out in 2016

Democracy gave us freedom to watch what we want purchase what we want.

Democracy gave us great food choices to have great BBQs in the summer lol.

Anyone who's against Democracy should go live in Havana Cuba for a week,been there done that,what a depressing way to live.

[eyeball]

Democracy gave us Hitler and Operation Ajax. Democracy is a little too overrated sometimes. Probably because of what people and countries don't do with it, which is maintain their principles when it really matters. Putting it on a pedestal is easy, knocking it off is even easier.

[August1991]

There are only 20 full democracies in the world, according to the Economist down from 24 the previous year....

Sadly, the editorial staff at The Economist has gone for the money and become an American, liberal rag. "If you read The Economist, you're smart and virtuous."

=====

Argus, the real question is which societies in the world are "civilized"? And perhaps more pertinent, in which countries are people willing to defend their civilization?

The posts above are evidence that in the future, we may be unable to defend ourselves

Edited March 26, 2016 by August1991

[-TSS-]

I must say that I have never in my adult life have been as sceptical about democracy as I'm these days. I used to poke fun at those people who never vote and who say that voting is just a waste of time and politicians are all of the same ilk.

I used to spurn those people by thinking whay ignorant oafs they are.

I think the turning point for me came last year when the True Finns had another electoral success on the bandwagon of anti-EU and anti-immigration campaign and were allowed into the government.

In the government those bastards probably broke all the records of turning coats. All of a sudden the EU is a necessity and immigration is just something we have to live with. I know that in coalition-politics you give and you take and policies are bound to be lame compromises but despite that self-evident truth they went too far and have betrayed their voters.

[eyeball]

The posts above are evidence that in the future, we may be unable to defend ourselves

A lot of the posts I've read around here in the past don't provide much incentive to bother.

Edited April 3, 2016 by eyeball

[betsy]

There are only 20 full democracies in the world, according to the Economist down from 24 the previous year, and democracy is in retreat all across the world, with autocratic rule rising and strengthening and waving its elbows around. Even in the full democracies the whole system seems tired, with many people fed up with unrepresentative government, or government which is incompetent and seems to be nothing but a talking shop for the chattering classes. On the international scene democracies seem hesitant and reluctant to get involved anywhere outside their own territories.

While Russia and China boldly push outward, with double digit yearly increases in military spending, espionage, sabotage, and expansion, the democracies are timid and afraid of confrontation, and are slashing military spending year after year. Obama accused Britain and France of not pulling their weight on such things any more, but the US isn't doing much either, with Obama's dithering reluctance to take strong action anywhere. Russia is sponsoring extremist groups across Europe and interfering with government parties there while China is building and arming a giant island in the middle of highly disputed waters, apparently intent on taking them over by default. What does the US do or say? Nothing.

One can easily see more of the European democracies falling back in the coming years, particularly in areas like Greece, Italy, and even France.

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/glavin-democracys-long-march-backwards

Democracy is well on its way to being replaced by socialism.....but that's just my personal view.

Edited April 3, 2016 by betsy

[Argus]

Democracy is well on its way to being replaced by socialism.....but that's just my personal view.

Like Bernie Sanders, you don't really understand what Socialism is. Bernie calls himself a Socialist, but isn't.

As long as rich people have influence we will never have Socialism. You are probably thinking more along the lines of social democracy, which can be a great system, but rarely is due to human nature. The Nordic countries do this fairly well, or did when they were more homogeneous. That's breaking down under the influence of large numbers of immigrants.

[GostHacked]

No Democracy isn't Dying.

If you kill Democracy,you kill ambition.

Democracy gave us the Internet and those beautiful large screen TVs lol.

Democracy gave us the PS3 and those great games

Democracy gave us those great cars coming out in 2016

Democracy gave us freedom to watch what we want purchase what we want.

Democracy gave us great food choices to have great BBQs in the summer lol.

Anyone who's against Democracy should go live in Havana Cuba for a week,been there done that,what a depressing way to live.

You are confusing capitalism to democracy.

[eyeball]

You are confusing capitalism to democracy.

Conflating them too. I suspect a lot of people imagine capitalism is what gave us democracy. In China unions are broken by the communist government and in Canada progressive PM's admire its efficiency.

Somethings dying alright and it already stinks.

Edited April 3, 2016 by eyeball

[bjre]

<quote>

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/us-navy-spying-case-what-china-was-really-after-15753

Their operational objective is to keep US and allied forces at a distance and stop the United States and its allies from waging war in a manner we have displayed from Operation Desert Storm in 1991,

</quote>

US want to attack every country, any country try to protect itself from US attacking is all what "threat" means.

This clearly shows that democracy United State is the reason that world is not peaceful.

This can not be solved, because all mainstream media is controlled by several bosses, they controlled the how people think, so that they controlled the world. Democracy is only a lie, because, most people's interest can not appear in the important place of media, so that those problems can never be solved. Media keep makes people think war is necessary, so that people kill people keep happened when their everyday life become worse.

[GostHacked]

I must say that I have never in my adult life have been as sceptical about democracy as I'm these days. I used to poke fun at those people who never vote and who say that voting is just a waste of time and politicians are all of the same ilk.

One mentality that strikes me is the notion of 'throwing away your vote'. If you vote for who you think is best suited, then even if that person loses, you have not wasted or thrown away your vote. Faith in democracy seems to fade.

Mind you, in the end we could all be throwing away the vote if you think the system is rigged anyways. And in some cases, it sure feels that way.

Edited April 15, 2016 by GostHacked

[romansvintitskiy]

So sad...

[-TSS-]

It does feel like politicians are puppets and unfortunately the puppet-masters are never up for election.