Canadians FEAR Trump...Big Time

[Zeitgeist]

America is taking as much as it can get away with because it’s in decline.  By 2050 China will have a larger economy than the U.S., but more importantly, its economy will grow much larger than that. Trump is hastening what was inevitable, the end of U.S. hegemony.  It happened to the British Empire.  Yes the U.S. will still control some important international infrastructure like the Panama Canal, but the market will be in the east.  The only bullwark to reverse it is multilateralism, but the U.S. is recklessly going it alone.  It has wars on too many fronts.  

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

America is taking as much as it can get away with because it’s in decline.  By 2050 China will have a larger economy than the U.S., but more importantly, its economy will grow much larger than that. Trump is hastening what was inevitable, the end of U.S. hegemony.  It happened to the British Empire.  Yes the U.S. will still control some important international infrastructure like the Panama Canal, but the market will be in the east.  The only bullwark to reverse it is multilateralism, but the U.S. is recklessly going it alone.  It has wars on too many fronts.  

 

'Tis better to have been the world's lone super-power than never to have been one at all.

There is nothing to reverse, and certainly not to keep the globalist status quo intact.

Change is constant, and that means Canada will just have to learn Mandarin Chinese.

More FEAR is expected....

[DogOnPorch]

14 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

'Tis better to have been the world's lone super-power than never to have been one at all.

There is nothing to reverse, and certainly not to keep the globalist status quo intact.

Change is constant, and that means Canada will just have to learn Mandarin Chinese.

More FEAR is expected....

 

I found this BPS video rather enlightening on US China trade wars...Canada take note.

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

I found this BPS video rather enlightening on US China trade wars...Canada take note.

 

 

I love it...."the only problem is that the U.S. won (Cold War)" !     

 

 

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

I love it...."the only problem is that the U.S. won (Cold War)" !     

 

 

 

SWIFT does seem to be a bit of a...err...trump card...in the US hand re: Red China.

[bush_cheney2004]

Like Canada, China is far more dependent on exports, and China does not have enough trade balance headroom to counter Trump's rising tariffs.

Canada had to scramble just to find $16 billion worth of American goods to counter Trump on aluminum and steel tariffs.

If Trudeau and Freeland want to keep screwing around with his "feminist agenda", Trump will eat their lunch.

[DogOnPorch]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Like Canada, China is far more dependent on exports, and China does not have enough trade balance headroom to counter Trump's rising tariffs.

Canada had to scramble just to find $16 billion worth of American goods to counter Trump on aluminum and steel tariffs.

If Trudeau and Freeland want to keep screwing around with his "feminist agenda", Trump will eat their lunch.

 

Yes...I detect nervous bravado on many Canadian's part. They want desperately to believe that this is just a hockey fight that they can win if they can just get the US's jersey over its ears. But deep down...I'm sure many know the horrible truth.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Yes...I detect nervous bravado on many Canadian's part. They want desperately to believe that this is just a hockey fight that they can win if they can just get the US's jersey over its ears. But deep down...I'm sure many know the horrible truth.

 

I understand the political appeal of "standing up to the bully", but other rational voices in Canada are saying it is time to stop screwing around and cut a deal.

Trump would impose auto tariffs just to see Trudeau squirm.

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

I understand the political appeal of "standing up to the bully", but other rational voices in Canada are saying it is time to stop screwing around and cut a deal.

Trump would impose auto tariffs just to see Trudeau squirm.

 

We must learn to be more gracious to our dear neighbours...the USA. If that auto-industry heads back entirely to Michigan like it is itching too...it ain't EVER coming back without Canada building the Avro Arrow of automobiles....and we both know how that went.

"What?? Nobody is buying Bombardier's new narrow body car??"

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't think Canada likes Trump's negotiating style...kinda like this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=bkjfZctGMq8

 

 

Edited August 6, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[paxamericana]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

I understand the political appeal of "standing up to the bully"

The only problem with standing up to the American "bully/aggressor/imperialist" is that bigger and better countries tried and failed miserably. Remember what happened to the soviet union...comrade Canada should heed that lesson.

[paxamericana]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

America is taking as much as it can get away with because it’s in decline.  By 2050 China will have a larger economy than the U.S., but more importantly, its economy will grow much larger than that. Trump is hastening what was inevitable, the end of U.S. hegemony.  It happened to the British Empire.  Yes the U.S. will still control some important international infrastructure like the Panama Canal, but the market will be in the east.  The only bullwark to reverse it is multilateralism, but the U.S. is recklessly going it alone.  It has wars on too many fronts.

Correction, America was in decline. It is no longer. America is strong enough to take on any and all external adversary, the only problem is if it happens internally, we don't lose wars, we lose interest. Right now, we are shining our hegemonic aura once again and for some reason little brother Canada developed a huge allergic rash from it.

By 2050, China would have either democratized and become an ally or it can become like North Korea's hermit kingdom, those are the two option it has. The only real tragedy is that I'm not sure if any liberal globalist will be around then to hear me say I told you so.

[Zeitgeist]

Your delusions of grandeur are your biggest downfall.  Although fundamentally the current U.S. administration’s problem is its definition of success.  Quite simply its aspirations are ignoble.  All people strive for freedom and prosperity and will follow leaders who expedite that, and not just for one narrow group.  Trump is really about National Socialism light, and he’ll be hated worldwide because of it.   Yes Roman citizens had a good run, but they were ultimately weakened by their own decadence, fighting too many wars, and failing to recognize the new powers that emerged out of the North, East, and South. 

[OftenWrong]

10 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

I found this BPS video rather enlightening on US China trade wars...Canada take note.

lmao, Mutti

[Zeitgeist]

If China is as weak as you say it is, why is the U.S. imposing tariffs on it?  In that case the U.S. position looks like greed and subjugation of a weaker power.  Hardly admirable.  I'd like to think that a democratized China would be an ally.  All true democracies should be allies, provided there are guaranteed protections, such as a Constitution or Charter of Rights and Freedoms.  I'm not sure that Trump has any interest in a democratized China, as he seems to like dictators and has extolled Xi's new hold on power.  It's a mistake because the chief problem that the U.S. and other western democracies have complained about in China is the fact that, as a totalitarian society, it manipulates the private sector to such a degree that there isn't really a private sector.  China can bail out companies and control their finances because it can create as much liquidity in the market as it wants, print as much currency as it wants, create companies to extract resources and invest in other countries, yet prevent a run on the currency because the yuan is manipulated.  A run on the currency would hurt western countries anyway, because it would make Chinese exports cheaper. 

The big complaint is that China keeps the yuan artificially low to help exports.  China is building new cities in deserts for a middle class that hasn't arrived yet and is making massive investments in high-speed rail and highway infrastructure that will essentially be the trade routes of the East.  It does this without consequence because inflation is simply ignored.  It also has tremendous economic growth, roughly four times that of the U.S., and that's down from recent years.  So when you say China is slowing down, that's a very relative slow-down.  The U.S. and other countries should pressure China to further democratize and have less control over its economy, but that also means that we have to be consistent in our approach.  The U.S. can't act like a dictatorship and stoke economic growth through massive tax cuts and deregulation that empty the treasury and lead to moral hazards later on, such as the 2008 bailout.  The U.S. used quantitative easing to lift itself out of that recession.  It basically printed money and bought bad debt.  It subsidized companies that were "too big to fail" to keep the economy from collapsing.  Canada did it too to protect the auto sector.  The problem in the U.S. is that behavior didn't fundamentally change.  Not enough regulations were imposed and now Trump is deregulating.  He's also modeling bad behavior by removing environmental protections.  You need better stewards of your country, and if you want to remain a "leader of the free world," you have to be better stewards of the planet.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 You need better stewards of your country, and if you want to remain a "leader of the free world," you have to be better stewards of the planet.

 

You mean like Canada ?   When will Canada become the "leader of the free world" ....since it is so perfect already ?

[Zeitgeist]

Canada's ace in the hole is that is a large country full of resources that can accommodate hundreds of millions of people in the coming decades and centuries, at which point, it may very well become that leader, as Macedonia took over from Greece.  That's a long way off and isn't important anyway.  Small countries can be well managed and make many contributions.  That's Canada.  We only have 36 million people.  I'd hope that Canada always works for both domestic AND international goals of human development.

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canada's ace in the hole is that is a large country full of resources that can accommodate hundreds of millions of people in the coming decades and centuries, at which point, it may very well become that leader, as Macedonia took over from Greece.  That's a long way off and isn't important anyway.  Small countries can be well managed and make many contributions.  That's Canada.  We only have 36 million people.  I'd hope that Canada always works for both domestic AND international goals of human development.

 

So what is taking so long ?   Why has Canada always needed another nation to be the "leader" ?   

Does Canada FEAR not being protected by an economic and military superpower...or FEAR being dominated by a different one than the United States ?

Why have far more immigrants chosen the USA over Canada ?

Edited August 6, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

The main difference between Canada and the U.S. is its geography, since the democracies both derive from British common law and representative government.  The U.S. has a better climate, and early on, when we still had the Family Compact in pre-Confederation Canada, the U.S. was freer.  It attracted more people for its freedom and geography.  The freedom later arrived in Canada through revision, and I'd argue that in some ways Canada is now a freer country.  In fairness, having more people brought new challenges to the U.S. that Canada hasn't had to face thus far. There are some interesting differences that speak to the different characters between the two countries: U.S. revolution vs. Canadian revisionism, U.S. individualism vs. Canadian communitarianism, the melting pot vs. the mosaic.  We didn't have slavery to nearly the same extent, though we've had our share of injustices like the U.S..  I would say, however, that our society today is better managed and our approach to world affairs is more progressive.  There are a lot of social and environmental problems that need to be addressed in the U.S., though I recognize that we have some similar problems that perhaps don't impact us as much because of our small population (i.e. oil sands).  

In a sense the U.S. is a victim of its success.  It's a great country that needs to be managed more carefully, especially since its conduct has great influence, not just politically but environmentally.  Climate change has essentially been ignored, but why?  The U.S. economy has been growing well with environmental protections.  Also, while I understand having concerns about the offshoring of manufacturing and currency manipulation, current U.S. trade policy is over the top.  You're alienating allies.  A day will come when you need them.  Why not simply bring in international wage requirements and labour standards?  For the same reason that the U.S. is balking at international environmental agreements: It wants to be able to break the rules to meet short-term self-interest.  Then don't turn around and complain about other bad actors that aren't following the rules.  If you don't like the rules, seek to change them, but then follow them.  See the bigger picture of where America and the world are headed.  See that we need to work together and that many of our greatest challenges are transnational.  It's not a matter of being a globalist.  It's being responsible. 

Edited August 6, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

49 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The main difference between Canada and the U.S. is its geography,

 

Didn't seem to stop Russia/Soviet Union from becoming a super power.    So that ain't it.

China had 5,000 years to do it....not quite there yet.

 

Quote

  I would say, however, that our society today is better managed and our approach to world affairs is more progressive.  There are a lot of social and environmental problems that need to be addressed in the U.S., though I recognize that we have some similar problems that perhaps don't impact us as much because of our small population (i.e. oil sands). 

 

Actually, the USA has lead in many areas of environmental protections (e.g. Clean Air Act), and many were adopted by Canada (e.g. auto emissions standards).

But still, more emigres (legal and illegal) have chosen the United States over Canada.   More Canadian nationals have also emigrated to the U.S. than Americans going to Canada (hint: the U.S. had/has 10X the population).

 

Quote

In a sense the U.S. is a victim of its success.  It's a great country that needs to be managed more carefully, especially since its conduct has great influence, not just politically but environmentally.  Climate change has essentially been ignored, but why?  The U.S. economy has been growing well with environmental protections.

 

The U.S. has invested in far more climate change R&D than Canada....it has not been "ignored".     Progressive Canadian tree-huggers routinely cite NASA and NOAA data / research from around the world.    Canada was an epic Kyoto Protocol treaty FAIL.

 

Quote

 Also, while I understand having concerns about the offshoring of manufacturing and currency manipulation, current U.S. trade policy is over the top.  You're alienating allies.  A day will come when you need them.  Why not simply bring in international wage requirements and labour standards?  For the same reason that the U.S. is balking at international environmental agreements: It wants to be able to break the rules to meet short-term self-interest. 

 

Clearly you are not aware of or choose to ignore Canada's record for mining operations around the world.

 

Quote

  See that we need to work together and that many of our greatest challenges are transnational.  It's not a matter of being a globalist.  It's being responsible. 

 

Oh, you mean continue the status quo wherein the USA bears the majority of "post WW2" burden in blood and treasure, while NATO deadbeats like Canada and Germany continue to coast on a free ride.

Edited August 6, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

Canada is 151 years old.  Prior to European settlement, the indigenous population in Canada was around 250,000.  Russia's population in 1600 was 14,000,000.  The Soviet Union was a much bigger country than Russia.  I could say a lot more about it, as I've lived there, but it has a very storied history.  Alliances were formed going back to Napoleonic times and Russia is 1200 years old (Rus).  Stop making apples and oranges comparisons.  The U.S. population exploded early in its history and that established the economic centers that helped attract immigrants.  Its warmer geography helped for sure.  Anyway, you never look at proportionality when it comes to immigration or refugees.  I know Canada has its own list of disasters, mining and otherwise.  We won't talk about the world's worst natural disaster in Bhopal India (Union Carbide from U.S.).

Also, one more item with regard to your post WW2 burden in blood and treasure.  Continually the U.S. has meddled in the Middle East and Iran, inserting operatives, manipulating or creating wars, etc., some of it for Cold War purposes, but much of it for oil.  U.S. allies have spent the last 20 years cleaning up the fallout from those moves.  Canada was never a colonial power, except within its own boundaries.  The U.S. won't stand up for human rights against countries like Saudi Arabia (origin of most of the 911 attackers) because it's so in bed with the Kingdom over oil interests.  Stop sacrificing human rights so your kids can have an extra pack of Pringles.  I thought the U.S. was becoming more oil independent? 

Edited August 6, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canada is 151 years old.  Prior to European settlement, the indigenous population in Canada was around 250,000.  Russia's population in 1600 was 14,000,000.  The Soviet Union was a much bigger country than Russia.  I could say a lot more about it, as I've lived there, but it has a very storied history.  Alliances were formed going back to Napoleonic times and Russia is 1200 years old (Rus).  Stop making apples and oranges comparisons. 

 

No....you should brush up on the history.    Czarist Russia went from a backward, agrarian society to a global superpower in less than 50 years.  Canada was part of the global imperialist British Empire and still thinks/acts like vassal subjects of more powerful nations.   Canada wants a "leader", because that is all it has ever known.  Americans do not think like that, despite having also shared British colonialism (violently rejected).

 

Quote

The U.S. population exploded early in its history and that established the economic centers that helped attract immigrants.  Its warmer geography helped for sure.  Anyway, you never look at proportionality when it comes to immigration or refugees.  I know Canada has its own list of disasters, mining and otherwise.  We won't talk about the world's worst natural disaster in Bhopal India (Union Carbide from U.S.).

 

??? By definition, Bhopal was not a natural disaster...it was a man-made industrial disaster.

Why didn't Canada's population "explode" ?    Because there was more opportunity in the USA, and that is still true today.

America has sizzle...Canada doesn't.  Maybe it is the weather !

 

 

[taxme]

49 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No....you should brush up on the history.    Czarist Russia went from a backward, agrarian society to a global superpower in less than 50 years.  Canada was part of the global imperialist British Empire and still thinks/acts like vassal subjects of more powerful nations.   Canada wants a "leader", because that is all it has ever known.  Americans do not think like that, despite having also shared British colonialism (violently rejected).

 

 

??? By definition, Bhopal was not a natural disaster...it was a man-made industrial disaster.

Why didn't Canada's population "explode" ?    Because there was more opportunity in the USA, and that is still true today.

America has sizzle...Canada doesn't.  Maybe it is the weather !

 

 

Canadians should fear Trudeau more than they should fear Trump. Trump at least is trying to make America great again where our dear fearless leader is tying to make Canada not so great forever. 

Indeed there was something wrong in the beginning where America drew the most immigrants from Britain and Europe and Canada did not. And we do see today that America is sizzling and Canada is fast becoming un-sizzled. LOL. 

[bush_cheney2004]

The Canadian FEAR just keeps on coming...now it is Canadian worries about Trump's rollbacks on more stringent automotive emissions standards.

As usual, Canada depends on what happens in the evil USA....

 

Quote

Canadian automakers don't want Ottawa to make any final decisions on regulations here until it's clear what will happen in the United States. At least 19 state attorneys plan to sue the U.S. government over the rollbacks, including the White House's goal to eliminate a federal legal waiver that allows states to set standards stricter than the national ones.

"The reality is because we have always followed what the U.S. has done it makes sense to see what comes out of the other end of the U.S. regulatory review process," said David Adams, president of Global Automakers of Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-vehicle-emissions-1.4775503

 

[paxamericana]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

  Why not simply bring in international wage requirements and labour standards? 

not possible because standards are different for different countries/regions. A person living in South Sudan has a standard of living way different from someone in NYC. 

 

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

U.S. allies have spent the last 20 years cleaning up the fallout from those moves.  

Umm so you mean to tell me that the majority of the war we fight is for oil??? then how do you explain that most of it now goes to europe and asia? You do realize the US is an oil exporter now, we're also a leader in renewable energy source ...

https://financialtribune.com/articles/energy-economy/77244/europe-receiving-40-of-irans-crude-oil-shipments

Edited August 6, 2018 by paxamericana