Britain Sets Date for EU Referendum -- Brexit

[Argus]

And interest rates from the Bank of Canada are tied to?

Interest rates might rise if the government decides it doesn't want the dollar falling. That's most unlikely. A lot of countries are deliberately devaluing their currency in order to spur exports.

No, foreign buyers (see United States) have greater purchasing power over Canadian goods, in effect, they get a discount..

You are flat out wrong. If the C$ is at par with the US$ and we sell a product for a US dollar we get -- one Canadian dollar.

If our dollar is worth 25% less than the US dollar and we are still paid one US dollar for that product then in terms of Canadian money we just got $1.25 (approximately).

I experience this every month when my USD check comes in and I convert it to C$

.....this is common sense, if what you were saying was true, the Canadian economy wouldn't have contracted due to the price of oil..........the price of oil declined (a commodity), as did the Canadian dollar, followed by the buying power of Canadian consumers.

You're getting awfully smarmy with your rolled eyes for a guy who clearly hasn't got a clue what he's talking about.

The Canadian economy contracted not because our dollar declined in value compared to the US$ but because the world price of oil declined below where we can profitably dig/pump and sell it. This led to a fall in our dollar, which is what saved many of the oil companies in Canada, because the fall increased the price (In Canadian dollars) they were getting for their product and helped offset the world price decline.

Your point? Outside the EU, the UK will still be able to purchase European produce.....unless you think the EU will charge the UK more to purchase their products

But it will also be able to purchase selected Canadian goods unencumbered by the protectionist tolls the EU erected to protect their highly, highly inefficient agricultural sector.

Of course the Germans (you know where you said you were born sometimes)

I was born on a Royal Canadian Air Force base in Germany. Does this have some relevance or is it just another opportunity for you to act snotty?

want to continue with free trade with the UK, fore the Germans are reliant upon UK consumers purchasing their goods.........the same will be true of produce, dairy, livestock etc......I don't know why you think Canada will all of a sudden benefit from this......

The Germans are part of an integrated market with a lot of doubtful members who benefit from the cheaper exchange of goods and services within it. If external countries get the same benefit, what exactly is the point of being a member?

[G Huxley]

Whatever it is if the interest in property in my region is anything to go by I suspect I'll be farting in silk underwear myself.

There you go, its all about money. What Plato called the Appetite Class. Aka parasites.

"My interest in immigration is the enjoyment I get from seeing people's noses getting rubbed in their own crap. Anyone who's been paying attention since the 1st Gulf War could see where causing the ME and surrounding region to fail would lead us. We deserve much worse to be perfectly honest."

So schadenfreude against your own people. I agree, that the policies regarding the ME are insane, but you are in turn promoting not just the destruction of the ME, but the destruction of your own people. So you are the other side of the same destructive coin. Why should people take your pro-immigrant policies seriously when you are pro-immigrant to overwhelm take revenge on and destroy the people who already live in these countries?

Even worse you would happily sacrifice the eco-systems of these countries just to get off on schadenfreude while you'll be "farting in silk underwear" yourself.

Edited June 26, 2016 by G Huxley

[Derek 2.0]

Interest rates might rise if the government decides it doesn't want the dollar falling. That's most unlikely. A lot of countries are deliberately devaluing their currency in order to spur exports.

Nice dodge, as we were clearly talking about Canada, where actual reality is quite different then what you purport.

You are flat out wrong. If the C$ is at par with the US$ and we sell a product for a US dollar we get -- one Canadian dollar.

If our dollar is worth 25% less than the US dollar and we are still paid one US dollar for that product then in terms of Canadian money we just got $1.25 (approximately).

I experience this every month when my USD check comes in and I convert it to C$

Reread my quote..........or why was Canadian manufacturing hurt by a high CDN dollar?

You're getting awfully smarmy with your rolled eyes for a guy who clearly hasn't got a clue what he's talking about.

The Canadian economy contracted not because our dollar declined in value compared to the US$ but because the world price of oil declined below where we can profitably dig/pump and sell it. This led to a fall in our dollar, which is what saved many of the oil companies in Canada, because the fall increased the price (In Canadian dollars) they were getting for their product and helped offset the world price decline.

Thank you for confirming my point that the Canadian dollar (and economy) is pegged to commodity prices

But it will also be able to purchase selected Canadian goods unencumbered by the protectionist tolls the EU erected to protect their highly, highly inefficient agricultural sector.

What would be the difference in cost associated with transporting fresh eggs or milk from Northern France to the UK versus from Canada?

I was born on a Royal Canadian Air Force base in Germany. Does this have some relevance or is it just another opportunity for you to act snotty?

It has the utter most relevance to your point of Canada becoming the UK's bread basket vice Europe........it demonstrates that you have a piss poor understanding of geography and the associated transportation time and costs associated with sending milk across the Channel versus the Atlantic ocean.......thus, quashing your poorly thought out idea.

The Germans are part of an integrated market with a lot of doubtful members who benefit from the cheaper exchange of goods and services within it. If external countries get the same benefit, what exactly is the point of being a member?

And your question is answered by the results of the Brexit vote.........there is none.

[CITIZEN_2015]

I blame Merkel a lot for this aspect of things. She refused to give Britain more freedom on the immigration issue.

The world markets will recover with enough time but as a net importer with no EU backing, England is going to have a tough time on its own. Especially with a weak currency and a financial sector that faces uncertainty.

It remains to be seen how bad it will get but this could potentially devastate Britain for a very long period.

My husband and I both have a lot of family living there. If it weren't for them, I would be laughing my butt off at this self-inflicted wound.

though in short term there will be some pain and economic slow down as economic uncertainly and falling currency will cause all these but In the long term Britain would do fine. They survived for centuries before joining EU without the EU. In fact Britain was economically much stronger prior. I have family in England too and they all voted for leave.

Edited June 26, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

Nice dodge, as we were clearly talking about Canada, where actual reality is quite different then what you purport.

You have - literally - no idea what you're talking about.

Reread my quote..........or why was Canadian manufacturing hurt by a high CDN dollar?

You have no idea what you're talking about - AGAIN.

Your whole argument has been that a declining dollar would hurt us. Suddenly you're admitting a high dollar hurts manufacturing.

Thank you for confirming my point that the Canadian dollar (and economy) is pegged to commodity prices

Again, you're completely confused. Your argument was that lowering the Canadian dollar would hurt us. It hasn't and won't.

The strength of the C$ is related to commodity prices, but commodity prices are in US$, so a lowered Canadian dollar helps us.

What would be the difference in cost associated with transporting fresh eggs or milk from Northern France to the UK versus from Canada?

Gee, I guess Argentina, Australia and Canada don't export grain and beef around the world, then, eh?

It has the utter most relevance to your point of Canada becoming the UK's bread basket vice Europe........it demonstrates that you have a piss poor understanding of geography and the associated transportation time and costs associated with sending milk across the Channel versus the Atlantic ocean.......thus, quashing your poorly thought out idea.

I said nothing of Milk, and you're economic illiteracy is matched only by your ignorance with regard to European agricultural costs.

[Wilber]

though in short term there will be some pain and economic slow down as economic uncertainly and falling currency will cause all these but In the long term Britain would do fine. They survived for centuries before joining EU without the EU. In fact Britain was economically much stronger prior. I have family in England too and they all voted for leave.

Uh? Never heard of the British disease?

[Derek 2.0]

You have - literally - no idea what you're talking about.

Actually, I do.......simple question, what has the Bank of Canada done with interest rates and why?

You have no idea what you're talking about - AGAIN.

Your whole argument has been that a declining dollar would hurt us. Suddenly you're admitting a high dollar hurts manufacturing.

I'm talking about the present reality.........are you suggesting our declining dollar has helped the Canadian economy? The higher dollar does hurt manufacturing, but then, as I said, ours is a commodity based economy.....

Again, you're completely confused. Your argument was that lowering the Canadian dollar would hurt us. It hasn't and won't.

The strength of the C$ is related to commodity prices, but commodity prices are in US$, so a lowered Canadian dollar helps us.

Are you suggesting our present day economy hasn't been hurt by a low dollar and commodity prices?

Gee, I guess Argentina, Australia and Canada don't export grain and beef around the world, then, eh?

Sure they do.......your point? How much grain and beef does the UK currently purchase from said countries versus European markets?

I said nothing of Milk, and you're economic illiteracy is matched only by your ignorance with regard to European agricultural costs.

Again how much "agricultural trade" is there currently between the UK and Canada verses European markets.............

You speak to economic illiteracy, yet your understanding of reality is befitting of a child's fairy tale.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Derek 2.0

[SpankyMcFarland]

Britain may be in for a bit of social turbulence:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/spate-of-racist-attacks-blamed-on-brexit-vote/

[SpankyMcFarland]

England doesn't need Scotland to prosper, Scotland is an economic drag for the rest of the UK....inversely...Scotland needs the rest of the UK to sell the majority of its goods, namely O&G, expensive energy and shipbuilding/defense products.

I guess it depends on what price you put on running your own country. Freedom isn't free. The Scots should make up their minds as to whether they are ready to make the sacrifices necessary for independence. If not, they shouldn't complain about what the English decide for them.

BTW the rest of the U.K., including England, increasingly depends on that Remain stronghold London to pay the bills.

Edited June 27, 2016 by SpankyMcFarland

[Guest]

England, Wales and Northern Ireland should hold a referendum to decide whether or not to cut Scotland loose...

Edited June 27, 2016 by bcsapper

[Wilber]

Now the Scots have been told what they can and can't do, it's all settled.

[Guest]

Now the Scots have been told what they can and can't do, it's all settled.

I thought the Scots were going to nullify the Brexit vote? Out of date?

[jacee]

I thought the Scots were going to nullify the Brexit vote? Out of date?

They're going to secede ... maybe.

.

[Wilber]

I thought the Scots were going to nullify the Brexit vote? Out of date?

Maybe I am.

[Guest]

Maybe I am.

No, I think it's probably been decided it's a non starter. The Beeb seems to think so anyway.

[Wilber]

No, I think it's probably been decided it's a non starter. The Beeb seems to think so anyway.

There you go, things get debunked before you even hear about them but some people have the answers and aren't shy about telling you.

[Derek 2.0]

No, I think it's probably been decided it's a non starter. The Beeb seems to think so anyway.

Of course its a non-starter, Westminster holds sovereignty over Holyrood.........at the end of the day, devolution for Scotland is akin to parents letting their child decide what's for supper or what tv program to watch.

What I find rich is the suggestion by some that the EU vote results have all of sudden given rise to Scottish independence, and had the vote resulted in remaining with the EU the SNP would have become Unionists..........and not just wait until the next crisis to seize upon.

In other related news, I heard of a petition floating around requiring a replay of the '86 quarter final game between Argentina vs England.

[Guest]

In other related news, I heard of a petition floating around requiring a replay of the '86 quarter final game between Argentina vs England.

There might be justice in the world, but not that kind of justice.

Speaking of this kind of thing, zee Germans did offer to finally acknowledge England's third goal in the 1966 WC Final if only we'd vote to stay in. I'm surprised that didn't do the trick. It would have swayed me.

Edited June 27, 2016 by bcsapper

[eyeball]

There you go, its all about money. What Plato called the Appetite Class. Aka parasites.

It's definitely becoming more about quality of life, something that will make money secondary when it becomes harder to come by.

So schadenfreude against your own people. I agree, that the policies regarding the ME are insane,

No, it's against conservative right-wingers. Destroying the ME was their stupid idea.

but you are in turn promoting not just the destruction of the ME, but the destruction of your own people.

The ME has basically already been destroyed. Many of our 'own people' were amongst the biggest cause.

So you are the other side of the same destructive coin. Why should people take your pro-immigrant policies seriously when you are pro-immigrant to overwhelm take revenge on and destroy the people who already live in these countries?

My so-called pro-immigrant policies have been the same for decades; that every human being should be able to move as freely around the planet as a corporation...we're people too after all. It's just unconscionable to me that money should be able to flow so freely while human beings who rely so much on it are barred from doing so. I think that's what people should take seriously and since we don't we deserve the consequences.

Even worse you would happily sacrifice the eco-systems of these countries just to get off on schadenfreude while you'll be "farting in silk underwear" yourself.

I'm not happy about the environmental ramifications but that ship's long since sailed too so...the only thing that will ever rescue our environment now is if we find our humanity but I don't think we'll find that until we hit rock bottom.

The schadenfreude thing is just a peanut gallery thing. I'm only getting off on watching the sphincters amongst 'our own people' who are getting all puckered out of shape over the mess 'our own people' did so much to help make. I'm done crying over it so I might as well laugh.

[Bryan]

.......are you suggesting our declining dollar has helped the Canadian economy?

If he's not suggesting it, I certainly am.

A low Canadian dollar is a very good thing for our economy. It allows us to charge less than our competitors in the US and abroad, yet still actually have more money in our pockets after the exchange. Every drop in CAD is a literal and direct profit increase. A high dollar is a pay cut.

[Derek 2.0]

If he's not suggesting it, I certainly am.

A low Canadian dollar is a very good thing for our economy. It allows us to charge less than our competitors in the US and abroad, yet still actually have more money in our pockets after the exchange. Every drop in CAD is a literal and direct profit increase. A high dollar is a pay cut.

And you would be wrong too.......a devalued dollar would be a good thing if we were a China, namely a manufacturing based economy, but alas we're not..........and that of course doesn't even touch imports with a low Canadian dollar, be they destined for businesses or consumers, that is what creates inflation.......Canada is a net exporter of commodities and a net importer of consumer goods......Now what you suggest might be a positive for certain segments in our economy, like tourism for example, but overall it is not.

I will say this again, feel free to answer it (Argus sidestepped it), if a low Canadian dollar is good for our economy, a Canadian dollar that is pegged to commodities, why is our current economy seen as worse off today then it was several years ago? Very simple answer, but it refutes your orthodoxy......

In relation to Brexit.......is the sinking pound and Euro considered a result of a "good economy"?

[Smallc]

The idea that the EU wouldn't accept Scotland on economic grounds, but works like hell to hold on to the basket case that is Greece - a county whose per capita GDP is far closer to Mexico than to Germany - is preposterous.

Northern Ireland has no reason to stay in the UK now. A land border with their other country is the last thing they want. Scotland might not leave, but it won't be because the EU won't accept them.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Smallc

[Derek 2.0]

The idea that the EU wouldn't accept Scotland on economic grounds, but works like hell to hold on to the basket case that is Greece - a county whose per capita GDP is far closer to Mexico than to Germany - is preposterous.

Scotland, unlike Greece, doesn't use the Euro for its suicide pact of a currency, forcing the German led bailout or risk the Greeks taking everyone else with them ........

Northern Ireland has no reason to stay in the UK now. A land border with their other country is the last thing they want. Scotland might not leave, but it won't be because the EU won't accept them.

You mean other then the Protestant Unionist backing majority of the population?

The EU would have to rewrite their own economic requirements for entry, lowering the bar for Scotland, in addition allow the SNP Government to forgo the adoption of the Euro and stay with the British Pound (as per the policy of the SNP government)......so no, barring a rewriting of their own entrance requirements, the EU won't accept them.

ETA:

As for the borders along Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland that is a non issue.....all citizens of Northern Ireland are entitled to automatic Irish citizenship, hence an EU passport.......ergo, there is no mobility issue between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Derek 2.0

[Smallc]

So you say, but I don't really consider you an authority. Greece had a weak economy when it entered the Euro, as it has for a long time. The per capita GDP of Scotland is about $4000USD higher.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Smallc

[Derek 2.0]

So you say, but I don't really consider you an authority. Greece had a weak economy when it entered the Euro, as it has for a long time. The per capita GDP of Scotland is about $4000USD higher.

You're looking at Scotland's current economy as part of the UK......