Britain Sets Date for EU Referendum -- Brexit

[jbg]

I wonder if under the new rules of aiming at as fixed-term parliaments as possible the new PM even has a right ot call a snap election.

Do I remember right that didn't you in Canada also change the rules regarding early election so that there has to be a serious crisis or no confidence vote for government to call an early election?

I like fixed terms but they can only work when there is a majority government.

I wonder if the loss of a referendum such as Brexit or Charlottetown (Meech Lake was not a referendum) could be construed as a confidence vote, since it arises under unwritten portions of constitutions.

[jbg]

The EU's problem is that it went wide before it went deep. What it needed to do was start with a smaller number of countries that were willing to join a tighter union, where they are states belonging to a federal government. Then, if the advantages of such an arrangement became obvious to their neighbors, they would freely join. Instead, the EU started as a loose trade association and quickly expanded to include a wide range of countries with disparate cultures, and only then tried to implement ever greater centralized decision-making.

And in most cases without popular input.

[Bryan]

No, we're in the present.

All futures eventually become the present. Present people have no control over what people in the past did.

Now what about our institutions? Who's responsible for them and when?

They were already there when we got here, none of us are responsible for how they came to be.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Bryan

[eyeball]

What about responsibility for our institutions actions now and the consequences of these actions?

[Bryan]

What about responsibility for our institutions actions now and the consequences of these actions?

Sounds drifty to me... maybe time for a new thread?

Edited August 15, 2016 by Bryan

[Argus]

It seems to be a near universal belief of the left that people in third world countries bear no responsibility for their behaviour, for the culture and values of their nations, for the decisions their governments take or the laws they pass. Instead, it's all the fault of white people. I have to wonder how they reconcile this belief that if you're not white you really aren't capable of understanding how to run a country, with their opposition to colonialism. I mean, if non-white people are so supine, so brainless, so easy to manipulate and abuse, then surely their countries should be in some kind of UN trust, run by smarter, more capable people than them.

[-TSS-]

Brexit could be delayed over the French and German elections next year.

[Big Guy]

Brexit could be delayed over the French and German elections next year.

I still contend that it will never happen. British parliament has to trigger it and there is not enough support to do so.

[-TSS-]

Yes, the referendum was advisory and parliament can ignore it but if they do that they set a dangerous precedent. What will they ignore next?

The stereotypical view of an average Brexit-voter is a person who is racist, xenophobic little Englander. However, one of the arguments in favour of Brexit was that being shackled to the EU is stupid when there is the whole wide world out there beyond the boundaries of Europe.

[jbg]

I still contend that it will never happen. British parliament has to trigger it and there is not enough support to do so.

I see very little chance of that. The MP's in pro-Brexit ridings will see to that.

[Big Guy]

I see very little chance of that. The MP's in pro-Brexit ridings will see to that.

Do they have the majority?

[jbg]

Do they have the majority?

Not sure.

One strong possibility is a snap election though. I think one could rationally look at the Brexit vote as the moral equivalent of a non-confidence vote. Didn't Mulroney resign right after Charlottetown? And true, it was the end of the five years so Campbell had to go to the polls but I have no doubt she would have anyway.

[Big Guy]

Not sure.

One strong possibility is a snap election though. I think one could rationally look at the Brexit vote as the moral equivalent of a non-confidence vote. Didn't Mulroney resign right after Charlottetown? And true, it was the end of the five years so Campbell had to go to the polls but I have no doubt she would have anyway.

Personally, I do not understand all of the benefits and liabilities of membership in the EU for Britain. I do have some understanding of the process required to change the existing condition. Very few times are things changed when only 50% of those interested want change. It is the majority of those who voted and who did not vote originally to direct the government to make a very major change for their future.

The fact that it requires a vote (majority) to trigger the process and the party supporting the change has to live with and facilitate the changes makes it doubtful (for me) that the support and energy exists for the long run.

It would require a majority government or a minority coalition to pass the legislation to trigger the process.

I do not believe that the conditions exist to-day or will exist in the future to pass this legislation.

[-TSS-]

The vast majority of the MPs in British Parliament were and are still staunchly against Brexit.

[jbg]

Personally, I do not understand all of the benefits and liabilities of membership in the EU for Britain. I do have some understanding of the process required to change the existing condition. Very few times are things changed when only 50% of those interested want change. It is the majority of those who voted and who did not vote originally to direct the government to make a very major change for their future.

The fact that it requires a vote (majority) to trigger the process and the party supporting the change has to live with and facilitate the changes makes it doubtful (for me) that the support and energy exists for the long run.

It would require a majority government or a minority coalition to pass the legislation to trigger the process.

I do not believe that the conditions exist to-day or will exist in the future to pass this legislation.

The vast majority of the MPs in British Parliament were and are still staunchly against Brexit.

While I support Brexit, I do think Parliamentary elections are needed to clear the air on this one. I don't think the rump PM can do it, even if she whips the vote.

[-TSS-]

Theresa May supported remain but she has promised to honour the referendum.

Promising a referendum was a gamble by Cameron which he first won by winning the election, which wouldnt have happened otherwise but ultimately he lost the gamble as Brexit won, which left him no choice but to step down.