Bush Snr, Bush Jnr, Trudeau Snr, Trudeau Jnr, etc.

[Charles Anthony]

Note: if the name is not exactly the same then we should not be using the term "Junior."

Question: if somebody called your son "MSJr" would you take offense? Would you expect your son to take offense??

My experience in real life is that men call other men Jr and Sr all of the time when they want to distinguish sons from fathers. Nobody asks for permission and nobody takes offense. I do it. Most men I know do it across all cultures ---- immigrants and natives. First names do not matter when a son looks exactly like his father.

[Smallc]

Question: if somebody called your son " MSJr " would you take offense? Would you expect your son to take offense??

For me it would depend on the intent. In the case of Trudeau, the intent is obvious.

[GostHacked]

Parent - George Herbert Walker Bush .. aka Sr

Son -George Walker Bush ... aka Jr

Since they have the same first and last name and both are commonly called 'George Bush' there is the need to have the Sr and Jr

Parent - Pierre Trudeau

Son - Justin Trudeau .... names are different, so the Jr moniker need not apply.

[WestCoastRunner]

I have come to believe that people are only using "Trudeau Jr" to get a rise out of other people.

And I have come to believe that those people only make a fuss about it because they want to complain about the first people.

It all seems tremendously juvenile. Please, August, find some better way of getting the forum all agitated. Perhaps some new Three Paragraphs movie reviews?

-k

You are making a presumption that folks only want to complain about the poster using the term Jr. That's not true. People get offended because our PM is being addressed as Junior in a derogatory manner. That's it, plain and simple.

[WestCoastRunner]

Question: if somebody called your son "MSJr" would you take offense? Would you expect your son to take offense??

Question: if someone addressed our PM as 'Junior', would they take offense?

The answer is 'Yes' as you can see by the responses to this thread. What is there to argue about? This term should simply not be used. Plain and simple.

[Charles Anthony]

What is there to argue about?

We can make an exception.

I am not disputing that some folks are taking offense. I am just curious to see if any of this offense comes close to real life.

This term should simply not be used. Plain and simple.

Why take offense?

[WestCoastRunner]

We can make an exception.

I am not disputing that some folks are taking offense. I am just curious to see if any of this offense comes close to real life.

Why take offense?

Our PM is being addressed as 'Junior' in a derogatory manner. Why would that be permissable?

[kimmy]

Question: if somebody called your son "MSJr" would you take offense? Would you expect your son to take offense??

My experience in real life is that men call other men Jr and Sr all of the time when they want to distinguish sons from fathers. Nobody asks for permission and nobody takes offense. I do it. Most men I know do it across all cultures ---- immigrants and natives. First names do not matter when a son looks exactly like his father.

When someone who isn't a real Junior gets called Junior, it's usually used dismissively (much like calling someone who isn't your son "Son.") Implying they're not grown men, more or less. (compare the recent characterization of Marco Rubio ex.1 and ex.2 ).

-k

[WestCoastRunner]

When someone who isn't a real Junior gets called Junior, it's usually used dismissively (much like calling someone who isn't your son "Son.") Implying they're not grown men, more or less. (compare the recent characterization of Marco Rubio ex.1 and ex.2 ).

-k

Well said.

[cybercoma]

And really, nobody is offended. But if you're going to allow people to call Justin Trudeau "Junior" (I'm using it every chance I get for now), then why not allow people to say "libtards" in their posts? They serve the same purpose.

[msj]

Question: if somebody called your son "MSJr" would you take offense? Would you expect your son to take offense??

Depends on the context and tone.

[cybercoma]

Depends on the context and tone.

What? You want them to consider CONTEXT? Are you nuts? Who's got time for that?

[Charles Anthony]

When someone who isn't a real Junior gets called Junior, it's usually used dismissively (much like calling someone who isn't your son "Son.")

In real life conversation with real men, a Jr/Sr reference is usually a term of endearment --- in my experience.

Depends on the context and tone.

Can you think of a real life example where this has happened to you? and where you took offense?

I can not.

I have been called MyDadJr and I have called other men Jr/Sr all of the time to their faces. Old men have called me Son and I have called them Pops and nobody takes offense.

[waldo]

Question: if somebody called your son "MSJr" would you take offense? Would you expect your son to take offense??

My experience in real life is that men call other men Jr and Sr all of the time when they want to distinguish sons from fathers. Nobody asks for permission and nobody takes offense. I do it. Most men I know do it across all cultures ---- immigrants and natives.

your claimed "experience" is at odds with the proper use of generational suffixes. Your claimed "experience" is at odds with the fact neither of the principals, Justin or Pierre Trudeau (or G. W. Bush and G. H. W. Bush for that matter), themselves used the generational suffixes as a part of their personal name identification.

First names do not matter when a son looks exactly like his father.

huh! Are you suggesting the respective paired principals Justin or Pierre Trudeau (or G. W. Bush and G. H. W. Bush for that matter)... "look exactly alike"? ... whatever the unfounded basis that has in regards generational suffixes!

We can make an exception.

I am not disputing that some folks are taking offense. I am just curious to see if any of this offense comes close to real life.

Why take offense?

"make an exception"? You mean an exception to your improper decision... the one you continue to steadfastly refuse to acknowledge has no foundation... other than your now just identified claimed personal "anecdotal" references?

offense is taken because the intent in attaching that generational suffix to Justin Trudeau is demeaning... purposely used in that regard. Further offense is taken because your self-identified "at peace with" decision has no foundation in terms of how the proper use of generational suffixes is defined... in how none of the principal persons self-identified the use of their own names. Additional offense is taken because your pet recourse in my personal raised concerns on this issue has you instrumental in, once again, suspending me for multiple weeks.

c'mon... you can beg off now... you've finally offered up a personal "anecdotal" basis for your initial decision sanctioning the improper use of generational suffixes within the MLW forum. Do the right thing... sure you can!

.

[Smoke]

Waldo you argue so much for the Trudeau's that I am beginning to think you are actually a Trudeau yourself. Would you mind if I start referring to you as Trudeau Jr. Jr.?

[waldo]

Waldo you argue so much for the Trudeau's that I am beginning to think you are actually a Trudeau yourself. Would you mind if I start referring to you as Trudeau Jr. Jr.?

additional information is required of you... when you use the generational suffix "Jr" to refer to Justin Trudeau... as you have in the past, by what basis, intent and meaning do you do so?

[msj]

In real life conversation with real men, a Jr/Sr reference is usually a term of endearment --- in my experience.

So now I'm not a real man because I ask members to use Sr/Jr terms properly?

Or I'm not a "real" man because I do not share such an experience?

Is this some kind of variation of the real Scotsman argument?

Can you think of a real life example where this has happened to you? and where you took offense?I can not.I have been called MyDadJr and I have called other men Jr/Sr all of the time to their faces. Old men have called me Son and I have called them Pops and nobody takes offense.

I have not been called junior since I was a child or kid so no.

If someone called me Jr now I would generally consider it an insult given my age and the fact that my name is no where near the same as my father's name.

Also don't have kids so I certainly hope it won't happen to me in the future.

As for the proper use of Sr/Jr, there has already been one asinine thread where the improper use of Jr. was used out of sheer ignorance and this created confusion since the real Donald Trump Jr was born in 1977 whereas the poster was really talking about Donald Trump Sr who was born in 1946.

If this forum demanded at least some rigor in such matters perhaps the original poster would have been more precise in such matters which would have been better for all: at least it would have saved the need to delete the "off topic" posts that were certainly on topic since clarification as to WTF was being discussed was necessary to comprehend the thread until the title of the thread was finally corrected.

But of course that would require efforts from the moderators so not going to happen unless someone like myself comes along and shames the poster into proper usage which, of course, to save the moderators embarrassment leads to deletion of posts because it's better to double down on this topic than demand people respect historical and proper usage.

[Charles Anthony]

So now I'm not a real man because I ask members to use Sr/Jr terms properly?

My question and observation concern real life conversation. Was that unclear in my writing?

[cybercoma]

In real life conversation with real men, a Jr/Sr reference is usually a term of endearment --- in my experience. Can you think of a real life example where this has happened to you? and where you took offense?I can not.I have been called MyDadJr and I have called other men Jr/Sr all of the time to their faces. Old men have called me Son and I have called them Pops and nobody takes offense.

Listen, junior......oh Nevermind.

[kimmy]

I think that the general feeling of the moderating team is that this is an issue of trivial importance. People are making a mountain of a molehill, clamoring for moderator action for the sake of it. If the moderating team gets involved in this, it will just encourage more people to make more mountains of molehills in the future.

The better solution would be if August agree to stop using Trudeau Jr and everyone agree to stop making mountains of molehills.

-k

[cybercoma]

Either there's a policy of decorum or there isn't. If you guys aren't moderating decorum, I'm quite alright with that. I look forward to this place being littered with pejoratives like CBC's comments section. If you are going to moderate decorum, which I think has been an expectation here given the Forum Rules and Guidelines, then everyone knows the game here. Junior is not endearing. It's meant to diminish the Prime Minister. Nobody's offended and it's not the end of the world, but it will lead to more disrespectful posts and petty bickering. Like I said, I don't care either way, but it's not clear at this point if there's a decorum policy or not.

[BubberMiley]

I think that the general feeling of the moderating team is that this is an issue of trivial importance.

-k

When has there ever been an issue on this forum that wasn't an issue of trivial importance? Making sure stupid conversations stay on-topic to a poorly written OP is of actual importance?

[cybercoma]

"For the love of God, you people, stop calling the current Prime Minister “Justine.” It isn’t funny and confirms a lot of the worst things people already suspect about you. Don’t call the Tories Reformacons. Don’t call the Liberals LIEberals or Libtards. Just stop it, all of it. Enough. You’re not just attacking your partisan opponents when you act this way, you’re hurting your country. Just a tiny bit, I grant, but it’s death by a thousand cuts, people. Grow up." http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/matt-gurney-can-we-please-give-justin-trudeau-the-courtesy-of-calling-him-prime-minister

[Smoke]

Most of the posts in the comments below were on point.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Smoke

[dialamah]

In real life conversation with real men, a Jr/Sr reference is usually a term of endearment --- in my experience.

If you knew for a fact that the person speaking to you didn't care for you, your fashion, your lifestyle or your beliefs and they said "Hey, Junior", would you consider that an endearment?