Fragile Masculinity

[Boges]

So I've just discovered that this is a thing on the Internet.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/lukebailey/masculinity-is-strong-and-powerful#.qdj041D6p9

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/masculinity-so-fragile-hashtag_5602d4cae4b0fde8b0d0bdee

The hashtag #MasculinitySoFragile trended on Twitter Sept. 23 as users in the U.S. and around the globe shared their views on how society defines masculinity -- and the damaging side effects that come with those stereotypes. Though society has become more aware and critical of the impact of male privilege, ways for men to prove their masculinity with specific labels, products and behaviors persist -- often with mental, emotional and physical consequences for men and women alike.

I think we can agree that gender roles do exist. So how is it fragile to market products specifically to men?

Some of the examples are funny. Men's Sun Screen, Men's Q-Tip, Men's Bath Bombs (As Grenades).

No one labels femininity as fragile when generic things are turned pink. Female razors that aren't any different from men's (generic) razors except they're pink.

Is marketing towards men something that should be mocked? Is this Men's Fragility thing quite anti-male humour? No one would accept making fun of female only marketing. I see a double standard here.

[eyeball]

I see a micro-grievance. Be a man and suck it up I say.

/mockery off

[The_Squid]

Any marketing should be mocked.... and the marketing can stand or fall on its own merits.

So, from what I gather, the hashtag is mocking what it means to be manly. But I read some hashtag examples in the article and they just don't seem to fit very well. One person wrote "#MasculinitySoFragile that they tell women to take catcalls as a compliment"

Well.... ummm..... huh?? Assholes do that I suppose.... but most men don't. She may as well have written "#MasculinitySoFragile when men hit their women when they don't do what they're told"

It's a bit of a stretch to think that manly guys think the above scenarios are OK. Or that those things are somehow a "societal norm".... but I digress.... what I mainly want to say:

To each their own, but I don't think manliness (or femininity) are going away anytime soon, despite the fact that some people from a particular gender may not go with what is considered the "norm". But there IS a norm.... and many women like men to exhibit manly qualities (which is different than asshole qualities, despite the two things often being sold as the same thing by some people).

[WestCoastRunner]

I haven't noticed any kind of mockery in Vancouver towards marketing products for men. One of the advantages of living in a large city with many different enclaves of nationality. More progressive perhaps?

[Scott Mayers]

I can't figure out how ties for men's suits mean anything. Likely a sincere means to store one's scarf to be used in survival scenarios but more of a risk to wear as they are now!

Or, how or why women would even care to wear high-heel shoes, especially those that contort their toes into sharp points?! I've heard it somehow makes their legs nicer looking in some way. But I still find it rather awkward to even look at women walking in them like they're more unnecessarily delicate....especially if she's also a feminist!!

[WestCoastRunner]

Or, how or why women would even care to wear high-heel shoes, especially those that contort their toes into sharp points?! I've heard it somehow makes their legs nicer looking in some way. But I still find it rather awkward to even look at women walking in them like they're more unnecessarily delicate....especially if she's also a feminist!!

Even feminists like to look hot and sexy. Even if it's only for a few hours.

[eyeball]

Or, how or why women would even care to wear high-heel shoes, especially those that contort their toes into sharp points?! I've heard it somehow makes their legs nicer looking in some way.

Works for me whatever it is.

My wife especially likes the way they make my bum stick out.

[Big Guy]

Anyone allowing themselves to be swayed by advertising deserves the repercussions of making that decision.

[Moonlight Graham]

I would support more masculine or at least gender-neutral bath lufias. They look feminine in design and most of the colours of feminine, so I just buy the white ones. They work great though. As a man I don't want these hanging in my bathroom:

[Big Guy]

During our last bathroom renovation, I lined all the walls around the tub and shower with lava rocks. I just scratch myself against these walls to keep clean. I thought that a bath loofah is for children and women.

[Scott Mayers]

I smell an Old Spice commercial in the air...

[eyeball]

Not Irish Springs? It's manly yes, but she likes it too.

[Scott Mayers]

I'll just post the Old Spice channel page: https://www.youtube.com/user/OldSpice

Another 'manly-man' set are the one's from Europe, called "The Most Interesting Man in the World" with the serious voicings of one of those PBS documentary narrator's (see the Wikipedia page for those details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Most_Interesting_Man_in_the_World

video link

Edited December 18, 2015 by Michael Hardner
added video link

[-1=e^ipi]

No one labels femininity as fragile when generic things are turned pink. Female razors that aren't any different from men's (generic) razors except they're pink.

Nah, it's also more expensive. This is one of the reasons I laugh at the people who complain about the so called 'pink tax' when it comes to razor blades, or shampoo or whatever. Just buy the male version if it's cheaper.

I haven't noticed any kind of mockery in Vancouver towards marketing products for men.

Perhaps that is because you believe the whole 'men privileged, women oppressed' narrative so ignore evidence that doesn't fit the narrative?

[-1=e^ipi]

Or, how or why women would even care to wear high-heel shoes, especially those that contort their toes into sharp points?! I've heard it somehow makes their legs nicer looking in some way. But I still find it rather awkward to even look at women walking in them like they're more unnecessarily delicate....especially if she's also a feminist!!

Those in society who are privileged are generally those who can spend money on unnecessary frivolous luxuries. If you look at the movie series 'The Hunger Games', the people in division 1 are the privileged and they spend their time wearing ridiculous and expensive fashion accessories. The people in most of the other districts are the oppressed and they spend their time mining coal, growing food, chopping wood, fishing, etc.

Now let's compare this to the world we live in:

Which sex spends the most on jewelry? Women.

Which sex spends the most on makeup? Women.

Which sex spends the most on ridiculous and impractical shoes? Women.

Which sex spends the most on haircuts and manicures? Women.

Which sex does the majority of the work in mines? Men.

Which sex does the majority of the work in forestry? Men.

Which sex does the majority of the work in agriculture or fisheries? Men.

Which sex does the majority of the dangerous work that have high workplace fatalities? Men.

... It's almost like the whole 'women oppressed, men privileged' narrative is nonsense...

Even feminists like to look hot and sexy. Even if it's only for a few hours.

Are you implying all feminists here? Or all female feminists? Or some feminists? Or what?

[-1=e^ipi]

I would support more masculine or at least gender-neutral bath lufias. They look feminine in design and most of the colours of feminine, so I just buy the white ones. They work great though. As a man I don't want these hanging in my bathroom:

The idea that a colour somehow has a gender or sex is nonsense. It is just a colour.

[Scott Mayers]

Those in society who are privileged are generally those who can spend money on unnecessary frivolous luxuries. If you look at the movie series 'The Hunger Games', the people in division 1 are the privileged and they spend their time wearing ridiculous and expensive fashion accessories. The people in most of the other districts are the oppressed and they spend their time mining coal, growing food, chopping wood, fishing, etc.

Now let's compare this to the world we live in:

Which sex spends the most on jewelry? Women.

Which sex spends the most on makeup? Women.

Which sex spends the most on ridiculous and impractical shoes? Women.

Which sex spends the most on haircuts and manicures? Women.

Which sex does the majority of the work in mines? Men.

Which sex does the majority of the work in forestry? Men.

Which sex does the majority of the work in agriculture or fisheries? Men.

Which sex does the majority of the dangerous work that have high workplace fatalities? Men.

... It's almost like the whole 'women oppressed, men privileged' narrative is nonsense...

Wait, you forgot one,

Which sex does the majority of giving the money to the other to meet the above needs for their interests?

Which sex would turn down the other for not complying with this arrangement, no matter how 'feminist' one would define themselves?

[Scott Mayers]

We got the sunshine
We got the shade
We got temptation
We got it made
We got rewarded
We got refused
We got distorted
We got confused
We got the sunshine
We got the shade
I want it all, I want it all
I want it all, I want it all

Metric's "The Shade"

video

Cool tune, right?

I can't be sure what she was particularly referring to but have to agree that this is really what it is all about. I welcome embracing whatever we choose without limitations or standards set by other's expectations of who or what we should be. But I approve of those who at least aren't being hypocritical to it. Women are now being able to be most 'free' this way but hopefully men won't be limited either. (I still wouldn't like even seeing men where high heels though. I know I'm likely in the minority on that. But it reminds me of the old Chinese tradition of having women break and contort or bind their feet to so they could fit in those tiny doll shoes.)

Edited December 18, 2015 by Michael Hardner
added link to video

[Moonlight Graham]

The idea that a colour somehow has a gender or sex is nonsense. It is just a colour.

Do you wear a lot of hot pink?

[-1=e^ipi]

Do you wear a lot of hot pink?

I don't own many clothes. Most of my current clothes have holes in them.

If clothing is pink, I don't care. I have a pink shirt that I wear occasionally.

[Scott Mayers]

I don't own many clothes. Most of my current clothes have holes in them.

If clothing is pink, I don't care. I have a pink shirt that I wear occasionally.

But are those holes are pink?

I wear pink all the time when I'm at home alone. I just have to make sure to remember to close the blinds first! My pink clothes were specially designed from an Emperor's assistant somewhere. It's close fitting too...skin tight in fact!

[Black Dog]

I think we can agree that gender roles do exist. So how is it fragile to market products specifically to men?

What's being mocked is the idea that men are too scared to use essentially gender neutral products for fear of being seen as womanly/weak/gay and thus require these products be presented in a way that is less challenging to their self-image (ironically, by making these products seem tough).

Some of the examples are funny. Men's Sun Screen, Men's Q-Tip, Men's Bath Bombs (As Grenades).

No one labels femininity as fragile when generic things are turned pink. Female razors that aren't any different from men's (generic) razors except they're pink.

Is marketing towards men something that should be mocked? Is this Men's Fragility thing quite anti-male humour? No one would accept making fun of female only marketing. I see a double standard here.

I don't know what rock you've been under, but there's plenty of feminist commentary about how stuff is marketed to women. Your barking up the wrong tree.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

Those in society who are privileged are generally those who can spend money on unnecessary frivolous luxuries. If you look at the movie series 'The Hunger Games', the people in division 1 are the privileged and they spend their time wearing ridiculous and expensive fashion accessories. The people in most of the other districts are the oppressed and they spend their time mining coal, growing food, chopping wood, fishing, etc.

Now let's compare this to the world we live in:

Which sex spends the most on jewelry? Women.

Which sex spends the most on makeup? Women.

Which sex spends the most on ridiculous and impractical shoes? Women.

Which sex spends the most on haircuts and manicures? Women.

Which sex does the majority of the work in mines? Men.

Which sex does the majority of the work in forestry? Men.

Which sex does the majority of the work in agriculture or fisheries? Men.

Which sex does the majority of the dangerous work that have high workplace fatalities? Men.

... It's almost like the whole 'women oppressed, men privileged' narrative is nonsense...

Which sex spends the most money on cars and car accessories?

Which sex spends the most on fancy sneakers?

Which sex spends the most on bespoke suits?

Which sex spends the most on expensive watches?

Which sex spends the most on giant TVs?

Which sex spends the most on power tools they have no practical need for?

Which sex does the majority of the work in low-paying service jobs?

Which sex does the majority of the work in caregiving professions?

Which sex does the majority of the work in education?

Which sex does the majority of the work in households?

It's almost like cherry picking select data points to support a pre-existing narrative is nonsense. And anyone who thinks working class males don't indulge in ridiculous and impractical purchases in the service of masculinity has never set foot in Fort Mac.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Black Dog

[-1=e^ipi]

"Which sex spends the most money on cars and car accessories?"

For this one, I don't know. Could be either gender. Certainly women control the majority of domestic spending.

"Which sex spends the most on fancy sneakers?"

No idea. Especially as the definition of sneaker varies quite a bit between English speaking countries. I do know that women spend the most on shoes (admittedly, from experience gay men tend to have a lot of shoes as well).

"Which sex spends the most on bespoke suits?"

This is because sexist gender roles force men to wear these suits in order to obtain employment. Women have a lot more freedom to wear what they want in a workplace environment be it skirts, dresses, a suit, etc.

"Which sex spends the most on expensive watches?"

Who uses a watch nowadays? Like seriously.

"Which sex spends the most on giant TVs?"

This is a good question. I don't know. Personally I don't own a TV and many people I know don't have one either.

"Which sex spends the most on power tools they have no practical need for?"

This one is probably men.

"Which sex does the majority of the work in low-paying service jobs?"

Better than being unemployed; men have a much higher unemployment rate than women. Perhaps there is job discrimination against men for these jobs that cause low-skilled men to either be unemployed or take dangerous jobs that have a very high rate of death (well over 90% of workplace deaths are male). The idea that men are discriminated against for these positions is supported by the results of studies such as ones by Philip Oreopoulos.

"Which sex does the majority of the work in caregiving professions?
Which sex does the majority of the work in education?"

Men are discriminated against when it comes to these positions due to societal gender narratives such as 'men are evil rapists and pedophiles' or 'men are less caring than women'.

"Which sex does the majority of the work in households?"

Same as above. Society is less accepting of men taking these roles. Personally, staying at home in a safe environment benefiting from your spouse's income seems like a pretty good deal compared to working non-stop for decades towards an early grave. The extra stress from work likely adds to the higher suicide rate and lower life expectancy of men.

[The_Squid]

Society is less accepting of men taking these roles.

Take whatever role you want in your life. You're not as hard done by as you like to believe....