Skeptical about Trudeau's commitment to climate change.

[TimG]

the corporations have more responsibility since many help create the problem.

Corporations simply sell what people want to buy. The responsibility creating the "problem" belongs to masses of people that want to buy the products and services provided by corporations. It is dishonest to frame the problem as something that is not the responsibility of every single person who wants a warm house or a full belly.

ready to punish those who don't do anything to help, like no trading with other countries etc.

Why stop at obsience to the CO2 religion? Why not argue that Muslims should only trade with Muslims, Christians with Christians, Atheists with Atheists. et. al.? It makes as much sense. Edited November 30, 2015 by TimG

[socialist]

Corporations simply sell what people want to buy. The responsibility creating the "problem" belongs to masses of people that want to buy the products and services provided by corporations. It is dishonest to frame the problem as something that is not the responsibility of every single person who wants a warm house or a full belly.

Why stop at obsience to the CO2 religion? Why not argue that Muslims should only trade with Muslims, Christians with Christians, Atheists with Atheists. et. al.? It makes as much sense.

May I suggest that for a start, sensible people consistently use the term "anthropogenic global warming" (AGW) instead of the econuts' "Climate Change" expression. As a principal part of the ongoing discussions, we must insist on having proof that carbon dioxide emissions (from man made causes only!) are a simplistic control knob for global temperature, which means that "they" have to show us that one added molecule of CO2 in some 84,000 atmospheric molecules is going to cause a catastrophe. This is obviously silly, and no such proof exists.

[drummindiver]

What is silly is that you suggest that Indian and Chinese emissions (many of which have their origins in Canadian fossil fuels) can affect the climate, but the oil sands can't. Do you realizes the contradictory absurdity of such a statement?

Not even in the top ten Huxley, so clearly, origins are not Canadian made.

www:self-help-alliance.ca

[drummindiver]

So it seems Trudeau is playing politics out of both sides of the mouth. His 2.5 billion or so dollars to help developing countries reduce climate emissions looks like a bad euphemism for serious graft. SNC Lavalin ring a bell? So while he fills the bank accounts of African dictators and simultaneously provides major commissions for Quebec and Montreal construction companies, he can use this to do nothing about the tar sands by saying that he has helped offset emissions in other countries and so doesn't need to do much within his own.

The whole thing reaks.

What does everyone else think?

A few things.

Tar is put on roads. They get oil out of the ground in Alberta.

And really, a Liberal giving graft to construction companies in Quebec is not even discussion worthy. It's a fact of paying taxes in Canada that the hoods in Quebec are gonna get richer.

Our oil sands are a lot cleaner than California's. What would you have him do, shut down an industry that produces thousands of jobs and revenues that help keep the country running?

Edited November 30, 2015 by drummindiver

[Guest]

Well, I for one hope we get it right. I don't want one of these landing on my head.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/megastorms-that-can-throw-thousand-tonne-boulders-up-cliffs-may-be-on-their-way-back-thanks-to-a6754511.html

Who would have thought "Stonado" would be so prophetic?

[G Huxley]

I'm not even allowed to say what I think of you all yet you are allowed to have an icon saying 'hippies use the backdoor.'

Yeah this board isn't biased at all.

[Guest]

I'm not even allowed to say what I think of you all yet you are allowed to have an icon saying 'hippies use the backdoor.'

Yeah this board isn't biased at all.

I fully support your right to say what you think, even if I vehemently disagree with it.

Unfortunately some of those on here with their fingers over the delete button get a little over enthusiastic at times.

Edit> Interesting factoid: I actually have that sign. It's metal, about 18" x 9". I have no idea where it was originally used. Of course, it might be a fake, too.

Edited November 30, 2015 by bcsapper

[G Huxley]

"I fully support your right to say what you think, even if I vehemently disagree with it."

and likewise.

"Unfortunately some of those on here with their fingers over the delete button get a little over enthusiastic at times."

Everyone needs a hobby.

Where did you find the sign?

[Guest]

I got it from my daughters, who had it in a rental in Vancouver. I helped them move a few years back and expressed an interest, and they were going to toss it so I took it. I'm not sure of its provenance prior to that.

[G Huxley]

Probably bought it from a store.

[Guest]

Here we go. JT sorts out Climate Change.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/trudeau-on-climate-change-indigenous-peoples-have-known-for-thousands-of-years-how-to-care-for-our-planet

So, all we need to do is keep the population of the planet below about half a billion and not have an Industrial Revolution. We should get on it right away.

Edit> That said, it's not all nonsense.

“Because there is no point in bending over backwards if your neighbour or your government is not also doing its part to ensure that we all have the maximum impact together.”

Edited November 30, 2015 by bcsapper

[socialist]

Here we go. JT sorts out Climate Change.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/trudeau-on-climate-change-indigenous-peoples-have-known-for-thousands-of-years-how-to-care-for-our-planet

So, all we need to do is keep the population of the planet below about half a billion and not have an Industrial Revolution. We should get on it right away.

Edit> That said, it's not all nonsense.

“Because there is no point in bending over backwards if your neighbour or your government is not also doing its part to ensure that we all have the maximum impact together.”

I don't believe any scientist who has looked into climate change would agree with those who parrot the received wisdom.

This 'wisdom' is the product of a computer and a model - the latter clearly flawed. Obviously fossil fuels emit a toxic mixture of chemicals. How important acidification and smoke particles are to life I am not qualified to say but one thing I am qualified to say is that atmospheric warming by CO2 is negligible. It is negligible in absolute terms, and it is ignorable in comparative terms. There is no chance I will ever say I feel a chill as a cloud of CO2 passes before the sun as I would with a cloud of water droplets. My only conclusion from the megaphone diplomacy on carbon emissions is that the great and good - IMF, OECD, Globalisers - feel less threatened by Climate Change with which they can personally cope, than by tackling its cause - economic growth, their talisman. The problem is building over the earth's surface. Water vapor regulates earth's temperature, on average, each square km covered by concrete and drained means a loss of cooling of 2.10^14 j p.a. give or take 25%.

The advisers know who they are, they have the figures, they prefer to ignore them. And let's face it, the view that growth is never bad is pretty pervasive.

[Michael Hardner]

This 'wisdom' is the product of a computer and a model - the latter clearly flawed.

Because you say so ? I'll take the word of decades of peer-reviewed research over your say-so, if that's ok. Of course, you could elevate yourself by providing non-crackpot cites for your claims as I have challenged you to do in the past.

[socialist]

Because you say so ? I'll take the word of decades of peer-reviewed research over your say-so, if that's ok. Of course, you could elevate yourself by providing non-crackpot cites for your claims as I have challenged you to do in the past.

Nothing you say makes much sense. I try to ignore the politically correct gibberish.

[socialist]

So it seems Trudeau is playing politics out of both sides of the mouth. His 2.5 billion or so dollars to help developing countries reduce climate emissions looks like a bad euphemism for serious graft. SNC Lavalin ring a bell? So while he fills the bank accounts of African dictators and simultaneously provides major commissions for Quebec and Montreal construction companies, he can use this to do nothing about the tar sands by saying that he has helped offset emissions in other countries and so doesn't need to do much within his own.

The whole thing reaks.

What does everyone else think?

This shows you what happens when you "unmuzzle" the scientists. How embarrassing for the Trudeau government working to whip up support for their global warming fiasco. It has only been a couple of months and already they look very amateur.

http://climateaudit.org/2015/12/07/what-science-is-telling-us-about-climate-damages-to-canada/

[Keepitsimple]

The problem that I fear will raise its ugly head is a knee-jerk commitment to show that "Canada is Back". If anything, Trudeau has shown that he loves to be adored - and now he has the attention of the world stage - the Climate Crowd and all their associated Hollywood activists - like Leonardo DiCaprio and his horribly scary encounter with Calgary's chinook winds.

Trudeau made the reckless commitment of 25,000 government-sponsored refugees before the end of the year - but as time has shown - that commitment was made in the absence of just about any knowledge of the process and barriers to bringing refugees to Canada. That commitment will not be satisfied for over a year - and the cost of doing so has ballooned to well over 5 times the "estimate" and is still rising - and excludes many of the substantial costs that will be borne by Provinces and cities.

And it goes beyond any commitments on Climate Change - lets not forget the similarly reckless commitment to fulfill all 94 recommendations of the Truth and Reconciliation committee.

[G Huxley]

This shows you what happens when you "unmuzzle" the scientists. How embarrassing for the Trudeau government working to whip up support for their global warming fiasco. It has only been a couple of months and already they look very amateur.

http://climateaudit.org/2015/12/07/what-science-is-telling-us-about-climate-damages-to-canada/

No I disagree with you 100%. Scientists should never be muzzled. Global Warming is a reality. Trudeau needs to take action, only he should do it by stopping the tar sands and moving to renewable energy at home instead of filling bank accounts abroad and providing deals to Quebec and Montreal companies to do so.

[socialist]

No I disagree with you 100%. Scientists should never be muzzled. Global Warming is a reality. Trudeau needs to take action, only he should do it by stopping the tar sands and moving to renewable energy at home instead of filling bank accounts abroad and providing deals to Quebec and Montreal companies to do so.

Global warming is not a reality. It's a money moving scheme.

What kind of renewable energy do you feel could replace oil and natural gas?

[Keepitsimple]

Global warming is not a reality. It's a money moving scheme.

What kind of renewable energy do you feel could replace oil and natural gas?

You have to be more precise or the alarmists call you a denier. Climate Change is a reality - as anyone with half a brain knows. Global Warming - as in - humans are causing the earth's thermostat to run amok towards Armagheddon......is dubious at best.

[socialist]

You have to be more precise or the alarmists call you a denier. Climate Change is a reality - as anyone with half a brain knows. Global Warming - as in - humans are causing the earth's thermostat to run amok towards Armagheddon......is dubious at best.

I agree. The climate has always changed. Much of North America was under a sheet of ice approximately 2 miles thick. It melted before you, I or Mike Hardner started smoking cigars.

Maybe the atmosphere was overwhelmed by dinosaur flatulence that had been trapped for millions of years.

[Argus]

No I disagree with you 100%. Scientists should never be muzzled. Global Warming is a reality. Trudeau needs to take action, only he should do it by stopping the tar sands and moving to renewable energy at home instead of filling bank accounts abroad and providing deals to Quebec and Montreal companies to do so.

The oil sands represent 8% of Canada's CO2 emissions, which themselves represent less than 2% of world emissions.

That means they represent 0.144% of world emissions. You would throw tens of thousands out of work for that? Seriously?

[G Huxley]

Global warming is not a reality. It's a money moving scheme.

What kind of renewable energy do you feel could replace oil and natural gas?

Denial is a river in Egypt. What do you really think your grand kids are going to think of you?

"What kind of renewable energy do you feel could replace oil and natural gas?"

All of them.

[G Huxley]

The oil sands represent 8% of Canada's CO2 emissions, which themselves represent less than 2% of world emissions.

That means they represent 0.144% of world emissions. You would throw tens of thousands out of work for that? Seriously?

The tar sands have only begun to be exploited. It's when they are fully exploited that we will see these numbers sky-rocket.

[waldo]

The tar sands have only begun to be exploited. It's when they are fully exploited that we will see these numbers sky-rocket.

notwithstanding the standard MLW member 'Argus' repeated choice to continue to ignore emissions related to tarsands product exported to and burned in other countries. Legitimate concerns relative to the tarsands reflect directly on the degree of tarsands development... as in so-called sustainable development versus full-bore, unfettered, wide-open, to-the-max type development.

[Bryan]

What do you really think your grand kids are going to think of you?

It's my grand kids that I'm thinking about -- not leaving them an insurmountable pile of debt that was spent chasing a phoney bogeyman, and instead leaving them the country in a solid economic position.