Moonlight Graham Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 Trudeau is his own person. You can't pin past Liberal corruption on him. Well, he still chose to associate himself with them politically. His father blah blah blah. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
ReeferMadness Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 Well, he still chose to associate himself with them politically. His father blah blah blah. Really? If you want to run for office in this country how many choices do you realistically have? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
On Guard for Thee Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 Well, he still chose to associate himself with them politically. His father blah blah blah.He'd of had to have rocks in his head not to. And look where it got him. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 A lot of contracts are for 5 years. Anyone who signed such a contract in the last year would be longer than the next government's mandate. Just out of curiosity, when do you think the cut-off should be? Certainly, it's beyond the pale for a PM to appoint someone effective a date when he is no longer PM. I don't get how anyone could fail to see that's just beyond the pale. And Harper didn't do it once - it's 49 appointments that take effect past the election date. That's outrageous. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Topaz Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 Question, how would u feel if Trudeau gave every MP and himself a raise in pay right now? Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) He'd of had to have rocks in his head not to. And look where it got him. That's fine. If he wants to lead a party known for corruption so he can be PM and cuz daddy, that's fine. But he has to own its past too and everything it represents if he chooses to lead it and associate himself with it, sorry. Time didn't stop between the time his dad left the LPC until now. That doesn't mean he was the cause of the corruption, but he did join the party while it was still filled with some the old crooks yada yada. It is what it is. Edited November 24, 2015 by Moonlight Graham Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
On Guard for Thee Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 That's fine. If he wants to lead a party known for corruption so he can be PM and cuz daddy, that's fine. But he has to own its past too and everything it represents if he chooses to lead it and associate himself with it, sorry. Time didn't stop between the time his dad left the LPC until now. That doesn't mean he was the cause of the corruption, but he did join the party while it was still filled with some the old crooks yada yada. It is what it is.Well that sounds nothing more than guilt by association. I guess if he wanted to join a party less known or corruption he would have had to go to the ndp, and he would have had to settle or mp, not likely pm. Quote
Wilber Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 Certainly, it's beyond the pale for a PM to appoint someone effective a date when he is no longer PM. I don't get how anyone could fail to see that's just beyond the pale. And Harper didn't do it once - it's 49 appointments that take effect past the election date. That's outrageous.First thing, there is no effective date when a person is no longer PM. They have to lose an election first. Most of these contracts were renewed when the Conservatives were still well ahead of the Liberals in the polls. Do you think all contracts should end on election day without renewal? How would losing every contract employee the day they were elected help an incoming government? What happens in the case of a minority government that loses a confidence vote, do you expect all contract employees to sit there on tenterhooks waiting to see who wins the election. The federal government is the biggest employer in the country, 49 contracts is peanuts. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
ReeferMadness Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 First thing, there is no effective date when a person is no longer PM. They have to lose an election first. Most of these contracts were renewed when the Conservatives were still well ahead of the Liberals in the polls. Do you think all contracts should end on election day without renewal? How would losing every contract employee the day they were elected help an incoming government? What happens in the case of a minority government that loses a confidence vote, do you expect all contract employees to sit there on tenterhooks waiting to see who wins the election. The federal government is the biggest employer in the country, 49 contracts is peanuts. I don't think you're stupid so I have to assume you're being deliberately obtuse because you're a supporter of the Conservatives. These are not ordinary employees - they are high level appointments and include some key positions with ability to affect the way policy is interpreted and implemented. If Harper had simply allowed the appointments to expire, nobody would have complained, even though the appointments would have carried over well into the Liberal mandate. That's part of keeping the government operating. However, that isn't what happened. He renewed appointments unnecessarily and it was a clear attempt to cause problems for the Liberals and/or push his pathetic influence into the future. As I said earlier, the rules on this should be set such that it contains the ability of one government to constrain the mandate of future administrations. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Smallc Posted November 24, 2015 Author Report Posted November 24, 2015 As I said earlier, the rules on this should be set such that it contains the ability of one government to constrain the mandate of future administrations. Like I said, I would have been fine with him doing it until the end of the year, or even 6 months after the election. Some of these are outrageous. Quote
Wilber Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 I don't think you're stupid so I have to assume you're being deliberately obtuse because you're a supporter of the Conservatives. These are not ordinary employees - they are high level appointments and include some key positions with ability to affect the way policy is interpreted and implemented. If Harper had simply allowed the appointments to expire, nobody would have complained, even though the appointments would have carried over well into the Liberal mandate. That's part of keeping the government operating. However, that isn't what happened. He renewed appointments unnecessarily and it was a clear attempt to cause problems for the Liberals and/or push his pathetic influence into the future. As I said earlier, the rules on this should be set such that it contains the ability of one government to constrain the mandate of future administrations. Harper was planning on being the future administrator. What is it about elections you don't understand? Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Smallc Posted November 24, 2015 Author Report Posted November 24, 2015 Harper was planning on being the future administrator. Quite presumptuous of him, don't you think? Quote
ReeferMadness Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 Harper was planning on being the future administrator. What is it about elections you don't understand? Now I know you're being obtuse. In June, when he made the extensions, Harper would have known that the chances of him being elected were not great and the chances of him getting another majority were slim. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Wilber Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Now I know you're being obtuse. In June, when he made the extensions, Harper would have known that the chances of him being elected were not great and the chances of him getting another majority were slim. Probably not a majority but the polls in May and June indicated a very good chance of forming a minority. Ultimately it was voters abandoning the NDP that put the Liberals in power. In some respects, I am playing devils advocate here because patronage is just a part of politics. Harper probably did push the envelope with some of these appointments but I am unwilling to just pile on. Edited November 24, 2015 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
ReeferMadness Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 Probably not a majority but the polls in May and June indicated a very good chance of forming a minority. Ultimately it was voters abandoning the NDP that put the Liberals in power. If he was comfortable he was going to win, he could have waited until October 20 to extend the appointments. If he wasn't, then it's a clear attempt to exert undue influence on the next PM's mandate. There is no way to excuse this. In some respects, I am playing devils advocate here because patronage is just a part of politics. Harper probably did push the envelope with some of these appointments but I am unwilling to just pile on. Well, isn't that nice of you. Poor Harper - everyone has been SO unfair to him. He didn't push the envelope - he crossed the line. And it's part of a long habit of him engaged in him abusing the power of his office or political cheating. In cases where he thought the public were too stupid or too inattentive to know what's going on, he would cheat. From cheating in elections to robocalls to proroguing the house when he's in trouble to the Duffy scandal to rigging election rules in his party's favor, there's a long established pattern of breaking rules or pushing them well past the point of anything that could reasonably be construed as fair or right. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Wilber Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 If he was comfortable he was going to win, he could have waited until October 20 to extend the appointments. If he wasn't, then it's a clear attempt to exert undue influence on the next PM's mandate. There is no way to excuse this. Well, isn't that nice of you. Poor Harper - everyone has been SO unfair to him. He didn't push the envelope - he crossed the line. And it's part of a long habit of him engaged in him abusing the power of his office or political cheating. In cases where he thought the public were too stupid or too inattentive to know what's going on, he would cheat. From cheating in elections to robocalls to proroguing the house when he's in trouble to the Duffy scandal to rigging election rules in his party's favor, there's a long established pattern of breaking rules or pushing them well past the point of anything that could reasonably be construed as fair or right. Faux outrage is so unbecoming. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
ReeferMadness Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Faux outrage is so unbecoming. As is your pretense that your one true hero Harper has integrity. Oh, wait. I forgot - you weren't defending him, you were just "playing devil's advocate". Edited November 24, 2015 by ReeferMadness Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Wilber Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) As is your pretense that your one true hero Harper has integrity. Oh, wait. I forgot - you weren't defending him, you were just "playing devil's advocate". Certainly not my hero, but not the devil you would like him to be. Edited November 24, 2015 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
ReeferMadness Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 Certainly not my hero, but not the devil you would like him to be. Harper is exactly what I'd like him to be: gone. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
overthere Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 Certainly not my hero, but not the devil you would like him to be. It's hopeless trying to get any kind of objectivity , they have found Their Jesus, and already had their Satan Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
jacee Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 Wouldn't surprise me if there were lots of precedents by both parties. There is nothing unusual about renewing contracts before they expire. Maybe you should read the article, wilbur. . Quote
Wilber Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 Maybe you should read the article, wilbur. . I did. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
jacee Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 Harper was planning on being the future administrator. What is it about elections you don't understand? Wilbur, you are not that dense. And neither are we. Obviously it suited Harper and his funders to have puppets of the oil industry stay on the NEB. That will change. . Quote
Wilber Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 Wilbur, you are not that dense. And neither are we. Obviously it suited Harper and his funders to have puppets of the oil industry stay on the NEB. That will change. . Look at the polls last spring when most of these appointments were made. He certainly had a shot at a minority back then. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
jacee Posted November 25, 2015 Report Posted November 25, 2015 Look at the polls last spring when most of these appointments were made. He certainly had a shot at a minority back then. If he was so sure he was going to win, he could have renewed the appointments after the election. Inappropriate, like much of his activity. . Quote
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