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Islamophobia in Canada


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1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

I've conducted many interviews and hired many people over the years and I can tell you, it is most difficult to come to a firm conclusion about what someone is like in a short meeting with them. After short-listing the people whom I think have the skills, I want to meet them and see if they're telling the truth. This can be done by using skill-testing questions. I am constant;y observing their behaviour as well all the time, to try and get a sense of their personality but this is very difficult. Most people are always on their best behaviour, and know what to say and what not to say. Some can be very quiet and reserved, that doesn't necessarily make them "bad". In the end I can only go with a gut feeling to choose the best candidate.

No one said you could tell someone's personality with utter faithfulness through an interview process. But you can tell a lot about a person through interacting with them face to face, and you can't tell anything at all about them without one. Remember that in this case, once 'hired' we can't ever fire the individual. If they turn out to be a complete louse we're still stuck with them for the rest of their life. So anything we can use to screen out the losers is worth the time and effort.

 

 

Edited by Argus
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29 minutes ago, Argus said:

You can do both. You can do your best to keep them out while also speeding up the processing. Unfortunately, here in Canada, since the Bertha Wilson decision, anyone who sets one inch across the border has all the rights of native born Canadians. Which means they have multiple ways to appeal and delay being removed, and their legal fight to stay is paid for by us.

I'm glad you mentioned Bertha Wilson.  I googled her name and found an interesting essay for anyone who would like to have a little peek into what liberalism is and how it has effected some of our Supreme Court rulings and justice system.

"The Andrews approach to equality also illuminates Justice Wilson’s approach to

criminal law because she was well aware that those accused of crime are
themselves an unpopular group and that other disadvantaged groups
were overrepresented in their numbers. "
 
 
It is easy to see why liberalism places a high emphasis on the rights of accused and disadvantaged groups.   This is an important part of their philosophy and constituency.  They also realize if these disadvantaged groups vote at all, they most likely will vote for the liberal or further left.  This is an important part of the liberal constituency.  On some issues, like the Wynn law debate though, it seems like they are shaking hands with the devil.
Edited by blackbird
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7 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Aren't there already such "programs" in the UK, Germany, Sweden, etc?

How are they working out?

No. As a matter of fact a 20 year old Iraqi raped a 9 year old boy while in the supervision of an adjustment worker.

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7 hours ago, Argus said:

No one said you could tell someone's personality with utter faithfulness through an interview process. But you can tell a lot about a person through interacting with them face to face, and you can't tell anything at all about them without one. Remember that in this case, once 'hired' we can't ever fire the individual. If they turn out to be a complete louse we're still stuck with them for the rest of their life. So anything we can use to screen out the losers is worth the time and effort.

There is no process leading to citizenship without a face to face interview. Applicants must meet with an immigration officer during the application process. Certain applicants also require a hearing with a judge. Not saying that's enough, but the interview mechanism is already in place. Also, the path to citizenship requires the person to live in Canada as a permanent resident for a number of years before they are eligible to apply. If they commit a violent crime during that time, they can be deported. That is something like a probationary period, during which yes, they can be fired.

I'm in favour of making citizenship harder to achieve. People should remain as permanent residents for a lot longer. There is no disadvantage for them if they do so. They can work, pay taxes and received the same benefits as Canadian citizens, but they can be deported if they commit serious crimes. Hate law would be one of those crimes.

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9 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Aren't there already such "programs" in the UK, Germany, Sweden, etc?

How are they working out?

Requirements to become a German citizen-

To become a naturalized citizen, you have to have lived in Germany under a limited residence permit for at least eight years. But you can also get this shortened to seven years if you take a German-language integration course, which can be done fairly affordably through a local Volkshochschule (basically a community college).

But very crucially, you also have to know German.

“The ability to speak German is an absolute necessity. Being able to communicate in German is essential for social and economic integration,” writes the Interior Ministry.

So how good does your German have to be?

“Sufficient command is defined as being able to cope in German with daily life in Germany, including dealing with the authorities, and being able to conduct conversations commensurate with one’s age and education. As a rule, this includes being able to read, understand and orally reproduce a German text on a general topic.”

On top of that, you have to prove you can support yourself financially, have committed no serious criminal offences and give up your current nationality - except for in circumstances where this isn’t possible, like countries that do not allow citizens to do this.

There’s also a naturalisation test that you must pass, which has 33 questions in B1 level German about the country’s laws, history and people. You must pass 17 out of the 33, or just over half.

By "German-language integration course" I assume they mean a cultural integration course, given in German. Seems that people are encouraged to take this course, but it's voluntary.

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12 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

There is no process leading to citizenship without a face to face interview. Applicants must meet with an immigration officer during the application process.

It is amazing how people who seem to be hard core anti immigration, can so blatantly attempt to pretend there is no screening process in place, when a quick google search shows otherwise. Anything for a phony scare tactic among that crowd it seems.  

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1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

So Germany is the go-to country to show the success of Muslim mass immigration into the West?

Alrighty, then.

:lol:

Sadly the concept of a training course might have been a good idea, but making it voluntary defeats the purpose. This was due to politics, most likely.

Really, the issue of allowing mass immigration at all is another question. I'm not in favour of it. If I were hiring employees I would want to get the best employees, not just the best that apply.

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1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

Sadly the concept of a training course might have been a good idea, but making it voluntary defeats the purpose. This was due to politics, most likely.

Really, the issue of allowing mass immigration at all is another question. I'm not in favour of it. If I were hiring employees I would want to get the best employees, not just the best that apply.

 

This is akin to Canadian government officials giving a tolerance lecture at Treblinka...but okay. I'm sure the SS would listen and change their evil ways once faced with our compassion for the Jews.

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2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

This is akin to Canadian government officials giving a tolerance lecture at Treblinka...but okay. I'm sure the SS would listen and change their evil ways once faced with our compassion for the Jews.

On a bit of a Germany binge tonight are we?

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8 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

You're free to believe a wee sit-down + chat with ANYBODY is all that is needed to "turn their life around".

Well perhaps we are getting somewhere, you understand there actually is a sit down and chat. You should have one with Argus.

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Just now, Omni said:

Well perhaps we are getting somewhere, you understand there actually is a sit down and chat. You should have one with Argus.

 

Treblinka was in Poland, btw. Not Germany.

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2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

This is akin to Canadian government officials giving a tolerance lecture at Treblinka...but okay. I'm sure the SS would listen and change their evil ways once faced with our compassion for the Jews.

You're saying the hate runs so deep there is nothing we can do about it. You're probably right, for those who have reached that level. But have they all reached that level? Dunno. Yeah, a training course is just words. A test is just words too, and too easy to cheat. I don't believe it transforms behaviour. I am only suggesting that all persons be informed, clearly, what the laws are and how they are expected to behave. Then if they commit a crime they have no excuses, deportation should be mandatory.

You're saying don't let anybody in. I don't know. My parents immigrated from Germany in 1964. (No Gestapo in my family as far as I know ;))
We are completely aghast at what is happening there now, as are the majority of Germans, according to our family that still lives there. Their culture is under attack by a neo-liberal agenda obsessed with equality, gone insane. After centuries of fighting to get a country, Germans are now giving it up for nothing. Not a good example and Canada must take heed.

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1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

You're saying the hate runs so deep there is nothing we can do about it. You're probably right, for those who have reached that level. But have they all reached that level? Dunno. Yeah, a training course is just words. A test is just words too, and too easy to cheat. I don't believe it transforms behaviour. I am only suggesting that all persons be informed, clearly, what the laws are and how they are expected to behave. Then if they commit a crime they have no excuses, deportation should be mandatory.

You're saying don't let anybody in. I don't know. My parents immigrated from Germany in 1964. (No Gestapo in my family as far as I know ;))
We are completely aghast at what is happening there now, as are the majority of Germans, according to our family that still lives there. Their culture is under attack by a neo-liberal agenda obsessed with equality, gone insane. After centuries of fighting to get a country, Germans are now giving it up for nothing. Not a good example and Canada must take heed.

 

I understand where you're coming from but I can not agree. We Canadians would NOT allow such lee-way in regards to Nazis...even OLD Nazis...and this I know a little something about. Only Islam gets this particular pass as the cult is deemed a Major Religion...by numbers if not deeds.

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2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

I understand where you're coming from but I can not agree. We Canadians would NOT allow such lee-way in regards to Nazis...even OLD Nazis...and this I know a little something about. Only Islam gets this particular pass as the cult is deemed a Major Religion...by numbers if not deeds.

Oh so if you're impressed by numbers and deeds, look at Christianity.

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Just now, Omni said:

Oh so if you're impressed by numbers and deeds, look at Christianity.

 

Look at Christianity what? Five hundred years ago? Six hundred? What sort of flintlock are we using on the battlefield in this scenario?

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On 5/13/2017 at 10:29 AM, Argus said:

As to what would make a good Canadian citizen, it is easier to suggest what would not. A mindset which sneers at everyone around you and dismisses them as whores or infidels who should be put in their place would certainly be among them.

** starts the slow clap **

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20 hours ago, dialamah said:

This makes more sense to me as well.   That way, regardless of what their personal opinions may be, they clearly understand what the expectation is for their life in Canada.

I was reading this back. I think to be realistic, the above program might work with legitimate immigrants but I doubt illegal migrants or refugees could give a flying phack about such lectures and I also have a gut feeling that people coming to Canada to join their families or they heard its paved with  benefits-well I am not sure if such programs would make a difference.

In theory legitimate immigrations used to be tested remember? Then the citizenship test became a joke. The major issue are illegal migrants coming here to jump the line. They know exactly what benefits are waiting for them because their coyotes (transporters) have networks to make sure they can get a percentage of their welfare, etc. -coyotes and their organized crime syndicates have often have life mortgages on illegals making them pay for life. Now I can't say how much but I can tell you these crime syndicates force illegals into prostitution, car accident and other insurance claims fraud, etc. How many I can't say.

As well when  illegals that break the law and get away with it and are not controlled by organized crime get on their feet they cause huge increases in further illegals because  multiply because they repeat how they did it to their family and friends and it multiplies.

The rate of increase in illegals at this time is rapid-it triples every three months like a compounding interest rate formula.

Its something he genius Trudeau has given no thought to. Right now in Buffalo there are centres popping up everywhere preparing illegals to cross the border illegally and claim refugee status. These are not refugees. They are cue jumping migrants who are breaking the law and being rewarded and their stampede is crushing out legitimate immigrants and refugees. There is no way we should be doing anything but detaining illegals and NOT giving them benefits but the Charter says the moment they step foot on Canadian soil illegally they get all the benefits of a Canadian and in fact they get more. They get superior dental and drug coverage than most Canadians and this is dead wrong. There is no incentive to obey Canadian laws. We welcome them as heroes for breaking the law. This is an insult to legitimate immigrants, refugees and all Canadians to watch this happen.

The real issue is not the culture of the people coming-its their motives if you ask me. We keep in these discussions focusing on their culture or religion-to me the question is motive. You live in the US 15 years and now you flee to Canada? Illegals in the US are given amnesty in the US if they can show they paid taxes 5 years. The people we see coming are going to do the same thing they did in the US in Canada, NOT pay taxes and this country is deliberately allowing illegals in thinking its desperate for people to pay into the tax basin to replace the baby boomers. Uh no, these people are not. They are not paying the taxes idiot tax spenders like Trudeau thinks exist to fund his programs.

Again I argue private sponsorships by churches and people fine-let's have some legitimate back up to look after such people-the federal government does not  care what happens to illegals-they turn the blind eye and when cities forced to deal with them ask for fed funding they do not get it.

These idiot Mayors seeing illegals as potential voters short term no long term they are creating pockets of social implosion where entire communities collapse inwords from drugs, alcohol, self inflicted violence from being unable to assimilate.

The less skilled the person is coming in, the more help they need but in Canada its pie in the sky b.s. We have idiot guilt ridden Liberals in a frenzy to take everyone in but then ignore them and others blaming these people for every problem in Canada. Its why I shun the left and extreme right on this and take a classic conservative approach that says you rely on government too much to save you-you set yourself up for failure. Non profit organizations and healthy solid nuclear family units are the best suppprt agents for building a society not government.

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12 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

There is no process leading to citizenship without a face to face interview. Applicants must meet with an immigration officer during the application process. Certain applicants also require a hearing with a judge. Not saying that's enough, but the interview mechanism is already in place. Also, the path to citizenship requires the person to live in Canada as a permanent resident for a number of years before they are eligible to apply. If they commit a violent crime during that time, they can be deported. That is something like a probationary period, during which yes, they can be fired.

I'm in favour of making citizenship harder to achieve. People should remain as permanent residents for a lot longer. There is no disadvantage for them if they do so. They can work, pay taxes and received the same benefits as Canadian citizens, but they can be deported if they commit serious crimes. Hate law would be one of those crimes.

First, while there may well be an interview before getting citizenship there is no interview before being granted landed immigrant status. And landed immigrants aren't ever removed except for serious and repeated criminal activities. And even then it takes many years of expensive legal efforts. 

The Liberals recently lowered the amount of time which needed to be spent in Canada to get citizenship. It was four out of six years with a minimum time residing here of 183 days per year. It's now three of 5 years. Oh, and, a nice touch, the Liberals withdrew the requirement that would-be Canadians declare their intention to actually live here.

I don't think three years is anywhere near enough, personally. I'd like it to be much higher. It would give us more chance to assess them and what they've done here, and in particular, what efforts they might have made (or not made) to assimilate. I think that, like what is now being proposed in Australia, a person should need to demonstrate that effort to gain citizenship.

Edited by Argus
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11 hours ago, Omni said:

It is amazing how people who seem to be hard core anti immigration, can so blatantly attempt to pretend there is no screening process in place, when a quick google search shows otherwise. Anything for a phony scare tactic among that crowd it seems.  

Silly us for reading what the government says and what those who know the process say rather than relying on our imagination and hopes like the pro-immigration side do.

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