DogOnPorch Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 So, in agreeing with Trump, are you comfortable being painted with the same brush - that of being a bigot and an Islamaphobe? By you? Who cares? Islam is what it is. Religious fascism with a history of not getting along with Western Civilization. Violently not getting along with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Based on CBC reader comments, Donald Trump's ideas on radical Islam has many supporters in Canada. Must be "Islamophobia". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) So now all Trump supporters are bigots. I hope the irony of such blanket condemnations aren't lost on everyone. Edited December 11, 2015 by Boges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 So now all Trump supporters are bigots. I hope the irony of such blanket condemnations aren't lost on everyone. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. ---Sir Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 So now all Trump supporters are bigots. I hope the irony of such blanket condemnations aren't lost on everyone. Certainly not...too obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 By you? Who cares? Actually, what you're saying is that it's ok for this poster to call you a 'bigot' here. We're actually asking people not to call people bigots unless it's inline with the other poster's views. Even then, it threatens to derail the thread pretty easily. But, ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 My favorite Muslim is Ayaan Hirsi Ali...ex-Muslim. And not a true Scotsman, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 I hope the irony of such blanket condemnations aren't lost on everyone. I guess the answer to this is 'be careful what you wish for'. So we ask posters not to outright call people bigots ... so somebody politely ask if you feel like you're a bigot... and get the eye roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Actually, what you're saying is that it's ok for this poster to call you a 'bigot' here. We're actually asking people not to call people bigots unless it's inline with the other poster's views. Even then, it threatens to derail the thread pretty easily. But, ok. She/he can call me as she/he wishes. I'm not offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Jones Posted December 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) Where in my post did I say ISIS? BTW I do see a trend of people equating anything bad to ISIS, it's like Godwins Law, if everything is Hitler/ISIS, nothing is Hitler/ISIS. At this point, I wouldn't oppose the West removing their involvement in the Middle East. But Oil is a factor, and the whole reason the US intervened in 1991. We can see this with how Saudi Arabia has basically shut down the Alberta Oil Sands by flooding the market with their oil. The people that run Saudi Arabia are the worst, but they basically control the world's oil prices. Sure we can aspire to a world without Oil, but that's not happening for the next few decades and when Fracking and the Tar Sands are so out of favour with the public, we have to deal with these people are care about their interests. But this has little to do with someone's opinion of radical Islam. I would have the same opinion of someone with radical Islamic opinions as a white racist (The KKK and WBC keeps being thrown around). Both are bigots and should be seen as such. I don't understand why people conflate critiques of Racial Islam with an outright condemnation of the entire religion. Free speech, criticism and debating is good. Generalization based on ignorance is a waste of time and counter productive. The biggest problem here is that there are people who label and generalize and "paint a whole group with one stroke". I know Muslims and I know how wrong these bigots are. I am not going to accept grouping 1.5 billion as one. I am not going to accept, expecting Muslims to apologize for extremists. Edited December 11, 2015 by Hudson Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Free speech, criticism and debating is good. Generalization based on ignorance is a waste of time and counter productive. The biggest problem here is that there are people who label and generalize and "paint a whole group with one stroke". I know Muslims and I know how wrong they are. I am not going to accept grouping 1.5 billion as one. I am not going to accept, expecting Muslims to apologize for extremists. But who's doing that? I get that when Trump says "All Muslims should be barred" that gets people's ire on. So what The Leaf's Nazim Khadri can't play in the US anymore? It's wrong, no doubt about it. He has to be doing it for shock value, because he can't believe that'll actually happen. But disagreeing with the idea that women should have to cover their face, or that disputes should be decided based on an Islamic court are things that fly in the face of Western Democratic values. How is it bigoted to condemn those ideas? I'm not making broad statements about a religion, I'm criticizing ideas within that religion. Like people do about Christians with Pro-Life or Anti-Gay opinions all the time. There's no difference IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 The day folks enact blasphemy laws that make it illegal to criticize religion, then perhaps I'll shut-up at that point. Or burned at the stake... It's already a crime if one is unlucky enough to be a target of a HRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 I don't understand why people conflate critiques of Racial Islam with an outright condemnation of the entire religion. It's probably because we keep reading so many outright condemnations of the entire religion on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 The day folks enact blasphemy laws that make it illegal to criticize religion, then perhaps I'll shut-up at that point. Or burned at the stake... It's already a crime if one is unlucky enough to be a target of a HRC. I hate to mention this...... Section 296 of the Canadian Criminal Code (1) Every one who publishes a blasphemous libel is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years. http://centreforinquiry.ca/canadas-blasphemous-libel-law/ Many Canadians are unaware that Canada continues to carry an anti-blasphemy law in the criminal code. Criminal Code Section 296 is the law which has remained on Canadian books since 1892. Blasphemy laws are, by their very design, contrary to the idea of secularism – the separation of church and religion from the state and laws which govern people. - See more at: http://centreforinquiry.ca/canadas-blasphemous-libel-law/#sthash.cMgjSzlB.dpuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 She/he can call me as she/he wishes. I'm not offended. I absolutely do consider many of your comments bigoted, as I do Trump's. Trump is right that there's something WRONG with Islam and that until it is FIXED...No Islam allowed. That is my sister you and Trump are talking about - she is neither violent nor radical, she is as frightened of ISIS and similar extremist groups as you and any other Westerner, as any one of 1.6 BILLION other Islam followers. And given that she actually lives in the Middle East, she is at a hell of a lot higher risk than Trump is, or than you are. And now she also gets to be held responsible by such as you and Trump for the actions of people who would kill her because she doesn't wear a headscarf. She knows that if she were identified as a Muslim while in Canada, some jerks would feel justified in attacking her, calling her names or demanding that she leave the country - because, like Trump and yourself, they hold a view that *Islam* is evil and thus their followers are not worthy of respect. The willfull ignorance of comments such as the one I quoted above is appalling, and the refusal to accept anything but a narrow, perverted 'truth' is EXACTLY the same problem with EVERY EXTREMIST. Ignorance and intolerance drives extremism, it puts innocent Jews in ovens and innocent Japanese in internment camps; it makes people put on suicide vests and it makes dumbasses such as Trump declare that billions of people are wrong and unwelcome - which statements you support. Already among the conservative Islamaphobes there are whispers of extermination of the over 1.5 Billion people who PEACEFULLY follow Islam - and that is exactly, supposedly, the evil you claim you are against. Read about that here and here, watch it here. Then look in the mirror and ask yourself if that's the kind of people you want to stand with. If it was Moonies shooting up the joint there wouldn't be an issue calling a spade a spade. Extremists are wrong on every level, whether its some shithead wearing a suicide vest in the name of Islam or some shithead creating conflict and fear, and putting innocent people at risk in the name of political power. Trump's ideology is no more acceptable to me than is ISIS. Your conservative bigoted comments about Islam are no more acceptable to me than some equally bigoted conservative Muslim deciding my sister is not Muslim enough for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 But who's doing that? I get that when Trump says "All Muslims should be barred" that gets people's ire on. So what The Leaf's Nazim Khadri can't play in the US anymore? It's wrong, no doubt about it. He has to be doing it for shock value, because he can't believe that'll actually happen. . Don't you understand how dangerous those comments are to innocent people, especially if he's aiming for shock value Kinda like Palin with her crosshairs comment and Fiorina and her planned parenthood comments. Right wing nutbars take these comments very seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Jones Posted December 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 But who's doing that? Just in this thread alone, there has been displays of generalizations, bigotry in different degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 I absolutely do consider many of your comments bigoted, as I do Trump's. That is my sister you and Trump are talking about - she is neither violent nor radical, she is as frightened of ISIS and similar extremist groups as you and any other Westerner....et al. Your sister is Muslim. She is not Islam. As the ol' saying goes....Oskar Schindler was a nice Nazi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 I hate to mention this...... Section 296 of the Canadian Criminal Code (1) Every one who publishes a blasphemous libel is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years. I'm aware Canada has some archaic laws originally designed to keep those darn evolutionists and such in their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 By you? Who cares? Islam is what it is. Religious fascism with a history of not getting along with Western Civilization. Violently not getting along with... Some people can't stand truth when it contradicts their ideology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 The biggest problem here is that there are people who label and generalize and "paint a whole group with one stroke". Like the sneering way people on the Left talk about conservatives, you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) Some people can't stand truth when it contradicts their ideology. Not to worry. I'll be an Islamophobe right until I get blowed-up real good. Then it'll be "Je Suis DogOnPorch"....he was so brave.... Edited December 12, 2015 by DogOnPorch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) Like the sneering way people on the Left talk about conservatives, you mean? There's no difference in the way you talk about liberals. Edited December 12, 2015 by Smallc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 There's no difference in the way you talk about Liberals. I voted Liberal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 I voted Liberal. I used a capital L when I should have used a small one. I did too actually, for the first time in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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