Smoke Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 The fossil fuel era is over. The wave of the future is moving on without you. Bye! Eta http://m.thestar.com/#/article/business/2015/11/16/ontario-pension-funds-lost-24b-from-oil-coal-investments-report.html Yipppeee.....Trudeau in/fossil fuels out....just like that!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 The Northern Gateway was canned anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Your point is not clear here. It's written in plain English, so I don't know why that would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 The fossil fuel era is over. The wave of the future is moving on without you. Bye! Eta http://m.thestar.com/#/article/business/2015/11/16/ontario-pension-funds-lost-24b-from-oil-coal-investments-report.html Yeah, good luck with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 There are other sources, hitops. The fossil fuel era is over. It is not a good investment anymore. Smart money invests in renewables. Not yet. Try flying on renewables. How much can the railroads spend on extension cords? And you do realize that virtually everything you buy has long haul trucking in it's past. We need to develop renewables intelligently, but oil is far from dead unless some eureka discovery is made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted November 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 As long as you also don't need electricity or transportation, then that's reasonable. or jet fuel. The oil in the Kinder Morgan pipeline has been refined into jet fuel-used often at Vancouver airport- for ages. Starting next year, all jets leaving YVR will be run on static electricity, so passengers will have to rub balloons in their hair and shuffle socks on the carpet furiously to generate enough power for takeoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkling Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 There are other sources, hitops. The fossil fuel era is over. Your pronouncement is premature, to say the least. Eventually, other energy sources will be capable of economically producing and reliably storing large amounts of energy in Canada. That is not now the case. Unless you wish to walk everywhere you go, and heat your home with some other more expensive fuel, you too will be using fossil fuels for many, many years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkling Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 What about not having a pipeline running through sensitive ecosystems prevents us from having electricity or transportation? You do know that the pipeline isn't a power line or a road, right? What a strange argument. The problem is this should not be an all or nothing approach. Successfully exploiting economic resources is a necessary component of creating jobs and paying for the social services and infrastructure we need. If that means an occasional little oil spill, so be it. The alternative is poverty which brings death and despair. Only the unimaginative would focus strictly on the well-being of some rural ecosystem to the exclusion of society's needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 you too will be using fossil fuels for many, many years to come. Certainly. But hopefully we will be using less and less of it as time goes on. Which is all that is really being asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkling Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Certainly. But hopefully we will be using less and less of it as time goes on. Which is all that is really being asked. Is it? When someone says the era of fossil fuels is over and no more pipelines should be built and no more resources developed that says something else again, something almost painfully naive. I like my electricity and I like my car. If others want to walk, they can feel free, but don't walk in my path or I'll run them over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Is it? When someone says the era of fossil fuels is over and no more pipelines should be built and no more resources developed that says something else again, something almost painfully naive. I like my electricity and I like my car. If others want to walk, they can feel free, but don't walk in my path or I'll run them over. Who's saying no more pipelines? The US continues to build them - just not across into Canada for the Keystone which is their prerogative (and I don't blame them - they would be better off focusing on pipelines within the US anyway). Even in Canada there is some support for pipelines and they will get built. Just not the big ones. But isn't that point? The industry proposes some big unpopular ones so that the lesser ones make it through.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkling Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Who's saying no more pipelines? The US continues to build them - just not across into Canada for the Keystone which is their prerogative (and I don't blame them - they would be better off focusing on pipelines within the US anyway). Even in Canada there is some support for pipelines and they will get built. Just not the big ones. But isn't that point? The industry proposes some big unpopular ones so that the lesser ones make it through.... The ones we need are the ones to export oil so we can make money so we can pay for bridges and roads and people who don't work, like all those incoming refugees. We need pipelines to take oil to customers outside Canada. We need to sell stuff abroad, and if is sheer idiocy to have it going by train instead of pipeline. People who fight tooth and nail against pipelines knowing the oil will still go on trains ought to be shipped to gulags in the north to make their living building snow houses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Who's saying no more pipelines? So far, and I am sure this is a partial list: Trudeau, Wynne, Couillard, Notley and Clark. OK, they all occasionally make ineffective flapping noises with their gums to pretend otherwise, but none of them just come out and say what is obvious: we urgently need pipelines to tidewater right now on both coasts. It should be an urgent national priority, since it materially benefits all of us in the form of a realized social contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 So far, and I am sure this is a partial list: Trudeau, Wynne, Couillard, Notley and Clark. OK, they all occasionally make ineffective flapping noises with their gums to pretend otherwise, but none of them just come out and say what is obvious: we urgently need pipelines to tidewater right now on both coasts. It should be an urgent national priority, since it materially benefits all of us in the form of a realized social contract. No, we will see more pipelines even as some people run around screaming the sky is falling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Exactly - Trudeau was in favour of KXL, is in favour TME, and will be in favour of Energy East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 No, we will see more pipelines even as some people run around screaming the sky is falling. Exactly - Trudeau was in favour of KXL, is in favour TME, and will be in favour of Energy East. Show me links where those leaders state unequivocally that they support Kinder Morgan and Energy East, right now. Not prevarication and asshattery, but unequivocal support for getting on with it. Because the sky is falling. I'm already tired of the US and other countries eating our f***king lunch as they have with development of shale oil and non development of LNG exportsd. The Saudis and OPEC aimed their actions to stop the flow of shale oil and halt the take away of market share from the Middle East. Instead, they have squarely nailed our energy sector to the cross and crosshairs. Works for them, apparently works for our 'leaders', but it does not sit well with me since we can actually do something about it. But we don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I'm already tired of the US and other countries eating our f***king lunch as they have with development of shale oil and non development of LNG exportsd. The Saudis and OPEC aimed their actions to stop the flow of shale oil and halt the take away of market share from the Middle East. Instead, they have squarely nailed our energy sector to the cross and crosshairs. Works for them, apparently works for our 'leaders', but it does not sit well with me since we can actually do something about it. But we don't. You really think the current slow down is going to be solved with a couple of pipelines? Not to say that they won't help, but oil prices back at $80+ would be better (and easier) for the industry (and politicians). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Show me links where those leaders state unequivocally that they support Kinder Morgan and Energy East, right now. Not prevarication and asshattery, but unequivocal support for getting on with it. No one - not even Harper - supported EE unequivocally. No one would do that before the EA and NEB review was complete. As for Trans Mountain, he did not name it as something he would kill (unlike Northern Gateway). That, in Trudeau world, speaks volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Your pronouncement is premature, to say the least. Eventually, other energy sources will be capable of economically producing and reliably storing large amounts of energy in Canada. That is not now the case. Unless you wish to walk everywhere you go, and heat your home with some other more expensive fuel, you too will be using fossil fuels for many, many years to come. Oh I agree. It's a process. But the critical mass has shifted to more energy startups in renewables, and will continue to It isn't a debate or contest anymore, but a reality. And smart energy companies know that diversification is necessary. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) The fossil fuel era is over. The wave of the future is moving on without you. Bye! Eta http://m.thestar.com/#/article/business/2015/11/16/ontario-pension-funds-lost-24b-from-oil-coal-investments-report.html Uh.......ya, when the price of something falls, people invested in that thing make less money. Congratulations captain obvious. This undermines your point, it does not support it. Falling prices are not because of some kind of magic declaration of 'the end of fossil fuels'. It is because of a huge increase in fossil fuel supply. You use fossil fuels every day, for most of your activities. Effectively all your transportation. Nearly everything you buy, was brought to you using fossil fuels. You have electricity, because of fossil fuels. You are typing on your computer right now, which was manufactured with fossil fuels, as was the servers this board is hosted on. How you do not recognize this, is an exercise in extreme denial. You are literally debunking your own points with every word you type, every minute your pc/laptop/tablet is powered on. Edited December 4, 2015 by hitops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) What about not having a pipeline running through sensitive ecosystems prevents us from having electricity or transportation? You do know that the pipeline isn't a power line or a road, right? What a strange argument. Good point, I forgot that all the equipment used to maintain a power station, all the materials used to build and service it and getting those materials there, and all the people who get there for work, is all done by magic fairy dust. You don't need coal or oil for any of that, just tap you heels together. Edited December 4, 2015 by hitops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) Falling prices are not because of some kind of magic declaration of 'the end of fossil fuels'.Apparently ... some others agree with me!Paris climate deal: nearly 200 nations sign in end of fossil fuel era Edited December 12, 2015 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) Apparently ... some others agree with me! Paris climate deal: nearly 200 nations sign in end of fossil fuel era This is a significant deal!! However, I was disappointed to read that individual countries will not be legally held to curb emissions.I started a new thread on the deal. Edited December 12, 2015 by WestCoastRunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Apparently ... some others agree with me! Paris climate deal: nearly 200 nations sign in end of fossil fuel era Because people say it, does not make it true. It is still far more expensive to produce power with non-fossil sources, which is why the vast majority of the world's energy is still produced with fossil fuels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Jacee, how many of these climate deals have we seen in the last 15 yrs. And how many had any result in lowering emissions. It is one big party for these people. And even bigger since trudeau took more people with him then any other country did. And how much emissions were produced with 50,000 people flying over to Paris to party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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