Standing for everything, and nothing, lying about it all.

[poochy]

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/kelly-mcparland-how-i-came-to-admire-justin-trudeau

I enjoyed this article, and it does a good job of summing up Trudeau, the liberals and their campaign, how they can promise so much, while never actually telling the truth about anything, never being pressed to answer a question beyond the cuddly platitudes, the opinions of the followers here greatly reflect this open emptiness. Anything for power, no lie to great, no truth too small.

[ToadBrother]

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/kelly-mcparland-how-i-came-to-admire-justin-trudeau

I enjoyed this article, and it does a good job of summing up Trudeau, the liberals and their campaign, how they can promise so much, while never actually telling the truth about anything, never being pressed to answer a question beyond the cuddly platitudes, the opinions of the followers here greatly reflect this open emptiness. Anything for power, no lie to great, no truth too small.

That could just as easily represent the Tories. as Matt Gurney's column in the National Post pointed out the day before.

And really, how much of it matters at this point. With the strongest possibility being that whoever wins not being able to achieve a majority, it's going to mean a lot of horsetrading. All those fancy platforms won't be worth the paper they're printed on if we have a hung Parliament and a minority government.

[Wilber]

And really, how much of it matters at this point. With the strongest possibility being that whoever wins not being able to achieve a majority, it's going to mean a lot of horsetrading. All those fancy platforms won't be worth the paper they're printed on if we have a hung Parliament and a minority government.

That's what I'm hoping for.

[ReeferMadness]

I'm outraged. Trudeau will be the most dishonest Prime Minister since..... Harper!

[ToadBrother]

That's what I'm hoping for.

I don't know. The Liberals are definitely showing some strength, and if tonight's Nanos poll shows the Tories below 30% again and the Liberals pushing up or beyond 37%, I think there's at least some probability of a Liberal majority.

And that's when we'll see how dedicated they are to at least one commitment; and that's electoral reform. Without the NDP to force them to keep to their commitment, I predict either death by committee or a referendum where the Tories and liberals work quietly to make sure at least 50%+1 reject it. I refer you to the UK's AV referendum in 2011, where the Tories and Labour did everything in their power to kill it.

[ReeferMadness]

I don't know. The Liberals are definitely showing some strength, and if tonight's Nanos poll shows the Tories below 30% again and the Liberals pushing up or beyond 37%, I think there's at least some probability of a Liberal majority.

And that's when we'll see how dedicated they are to at least one commitment; and that's electoral reform. Without the NDP to force them to keep to their commitment, I predict either death by committee or a referendum where the Tories and liberals work quietly to make sure at least 50%+1 reject it. I refer you to the UK's AV referendum in 2011, where the Tories and Labour did everything in their power to kill it.

AV is not PR. It should be rejected.

[ToadBrother]

AV is not PR. It should be rejected.

I can also refer you the two referendums in BC on STV, the one which didn't reach the intentionally high 60%, and the other where the BC Liberals' and BC NDP's buddies in the business and labour communities worked overtime to kill STV, while the two political parties remained officially neutral.

Believe me, where the major political parties' interests are at stake, they can be astonishingly non-partisan and cooperative.

[Triple M]

I prefer AV over PR

I would like to avoid the pitfalls of PR and think ranked voting strengths outweigh its flaws.

[ReeferMadness]

I can also refer you the two referendums in BC on STV, the one which didn't reach the intentionally high 60%, and the other where the BC Liberals' and BC NDP's buddies in the business and labour communities worked overtime to kill STV, while the two political parties remained officially neutral.

Believe me, where the major political parties' interests are at stake, they can be astonishingly non-partisan and cooperative.

You don't have to convince me - I live in BC and witnessed the STV debacle. It was headed by 2 senior NDP insiders. I will say, though, that I personally believe that Gordon Campbell was a supporter of PR.

And I believe you - Trudeau will try to push through AV, which is why I would prefer he didn't get a majority.

In the federal case, however, the NDP has no interest in AV or FPTP and this election will only solidify that sentiment. After 10 years in the wilderness, there might be sufficient appetite on Team Liberal to go along with it. Hope springs eternal.

[ReeferMadness]

I prefer AV over PR I would like to avoid the pitfalls of PR and think ranked voting strengths outweigh its flaws.

AV is worse than what we have.

[ToadBrother]

AV is worse than what we have.

How about STV?

[ReeferMadness]

How about STV?

I like STV. It provides PR while still allowing a focus on individual people, not just the party.

ETA: which is why, I believe, it's not used more. Parties and party insiders don't like it.

Edited October 13, 2015 by ReeferMadness

[Argus]

And really, how much of it matters at this point. With the strongest possibility being that whoever wins not being able to achieve a majority, it's going to mean a lot of horsetrading. All those fancy platforms won't be worth the paper they're printed on if we have a hung Parliament and a minority government.

It matters in that the horse trading is likely to be between two parties scrambling to see who can spend more money we don't have faster.

[ToadBrother]

It matters in that the horse trading is likely to be between two parties scrambling to see who can spend more money we don't have faster.

Oh come on, even the Liberals' deficit plans are for just 10 billion a year, and the NDP were committing to balanced budgets, so this is nothing more than you just manufacturing a talking point out of thin air again.

[CITIZEN_2015]

You want to know who is LYING then look into the conservative party. A party of LIES and deceiption and division.

Just today Terence Young the conservatives candidate was accusing Trudeau of wanting to open brothels and marijuanna shops!!!

His comments were met with laughs and guffaws from the crowd of around 400 at the debate held by the Oakville Chamber of Commerce.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/10/13/terence-young-brothels-oakville-video_n_8288538.html

This isn't the first time that a Conservative candidate has accused the Liberals of supporting brothels. Jason Kenney also brought up prostitution and marijuana at an event in late September, saying that Trudeau would "force communities to accept brothels."

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/09/26/jason-kenney-brothels-trudeau_n_8199480.html

Just a few days ago another conservative candidate Greg Goodyear accused Trudeau of supporting genital mutilation!!!

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-story/5952081-niqab-debate-offers-heated-moments-during-cambridge-candidates-forum/

He was booed by the crowd.

The Conservative candidate in Ottawa's Kanata-Carleton riding was photographed taking down election signs in his riding on Sunday,

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/canada-election-2015-ottawa-illegal-sign-removal-1.3267714

It was also broadcast on CTV.

And more lies and secrecy and hypocrisy

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadas-arms-deal-with-saudi-arabia-shrouded-in-secrecy/article22547765/

Playing the race and religion card to set Canadians against each other and capitalizing on hate was not enough and now they have resorted to LIES and character assassination and personal attacks out of total desperation and then someone opens a thread accusing Trudeau of lying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Really!!!!!!.

Edited October 13, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

Oh come on, even the Liberals' deficit plans are for just 10 billion a year, and the NDP were committing to balanced budgets, so this is nothing more than you just manufacturing a talking point out of thin air again.

The Liberal plan is for $10 billion per year based on extremely unlikely economic forecasts and just as unlikely forecasts of 'finding' billions in inefficiencies and waste in government. Jeffrey Simpson said it would likely be more like $15 billion. Add in a continuing downturn in the oil and resource industries, made worse by likely government policies, and those economic forecasts could be even further off. The NDP commitment to a balanced budget isn't going to be in effect if Trudeau is PM. And they've clearly been moving further to the Left over the past couple of weeks anyway.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Argus

[Argus]

You want to know who is LYING then look into the conservative party. A party of LIES and deceiption and division.

Just today Terence Young the conservatives candidate was accusing Trudeau of wanting to open brothels and marijuanna shops!!!

His comments were met with laughs and guffaws from the crowd of around 400 at the debate held by the Oakville Chamber of Commerce.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/10/13/terence-young-brothels-oakville-video_n_8288538.html

The Liberals voted against the prostitution law (as did the NDP). A motion to legalize prostitution was pulled from the party's last convention, allegedly because the party didn't want to publicly consider legalizing it when an election was coming. And he has vowed to legalize marijuana, so where is the lie here? Has he committed to legalizing prostitution? No, but there are strong suspicions he favours the idea. He has refused to commit one way or another.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Argus

[Smallc]

The Liberal plan is for $10 billion per year based on extremely unlikely economic forecasts and just as unlikely forecasts

Uhhh...the budget and the PBO....So the Conservatives are relying on the same things.

[Argus]

Uhhh...the budget and the PBO....So the Conservatives are relying on the same things.

Sure Smallc, we'll talk again when the Liberals budget deficit heads north of $20 billion.

[Smallc]

Sure Smallc, we'll talk again when the Liberals budget deficit heads north of $20 billion.

We can talk then. If that's the case, it would mean that the Conservative deficit would be $10B, based on the math and the difference between their plans.

[CITIZEN_2015]

The Liberals voted against the prostitution law (as did the NDP). A motion to legalize prostitution was pulled from the party's last convention, allegedly because the party didn't want to publicly consider legalizing it when an election was coming. And he has vowed to legalize marijuana, so where is the lie here? Has he committed to legalizing prostitution? No, but there are strong suspicions he favours the idea. He has refused to commit one way or another.

The LIE here is that Trudeau never said or even remotely indicated that he plans to open brothels everywhere and next to your homes bringing down your home prices. Can't you see the lie and fear mongering? I spell it out for you. This comes out of the article

Terence Young said that under a Trudeau government, neighbourhoods in Oakville, a town near Toronto, could see "legally-protected brothels with madams and all that goes with that because the Liberals have promised to legalize the selling of women in Canada."

He also brought up the spectre of marijuana shops and drug injection sites. "What family would invest their life savings in a home near a brothel, a marijuana shop or a drug injection site?" Young said.

As for Trudeau or Liberals and NDP opposing the prostitution laws (Bill C-36) yes they were trying to protect citizen sex workers from the dangers of Bill C-36 (also called Pickton's law referring to the coward murderer who murdered many innocent sex workers in Vancouver taking advantage of illegality of communications in public places took the defenseless women to his home and murdered them)

I am no expert in parliamentary affairs or least of all what would be best prostitution laws so I make no comment on the laws itself but oppose the manner in which which it was manipulated in the process by the party and the so called justice minister MacKay calling his own witnesses and screening out those who wished to speak in opposition and totally IGNORED sex workers and refuse consultation with them and conducted its own biased survey (in contrast with all other independent survey which supported by a majority of Canadians to decriminalize sex work and hence protect sex workers) and pushed it through the parliament in rush to meet SCC's December 2014 deadline without a good study of its impact on the lives and safety of sex workers who are EQUAL citizens of this country all because they wanted to retain or strengthen the support of the religious right. Their core support.

Edited October 14, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[ToadBrother]

Sure Smallc, we'll talk again when the Liberals budget deficit heads north of $20 billion.

Wow, now it's 20 billion. Hey, why stop there. Why not make it a bazillion dollars a year?

[Wilber]

Why is he going into deficit spending at all? Chip off the old block.

[Argus]

The LIE here is that Trudeau never said or even remotely indicated that he plans to open brothels everywhere and next to your homes bringing down your home prices. Can't you see the lie and fear mongering? I spell it out for you. This comes out of the article

Oh please. Do you really think he was really suggesting that Justin Trudeau himself would personally open up brothels and pot shops? Come on.

[Smallc]

Why is he going into deficit spending at all? Chip off the old block.

We're talking about a total debt for the 3 years of less than 2% of GDP. I don't blame Harper for the current stream of deficits, but it's 1/6 as much.