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Doctors Without Borders (MSF) Canada Criticizes TPP Deal


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That's cold BC. Do you know anyone who has lost their job or have u? It destroy families and people and there are some that don't survive. Where your compassion for people??

Where is compassion for people ? Ask Kathleen Wynne...now that's COLD ! The TPP can't do nearly as much damage as her regime.

And yes....I have lost my job. Having a great time !

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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Where is compassion for people ? Ask Kathleen Wynne...now that's COLD ! The TPP can't do nearly as much damage as her regime.

And yes....I have lost my job. Having a great time !

I keep asking, "Where is the compassion for fletchers and buggy wheel manufacturers?"

Inevitably free trade has its losers, as protected industries are opened up, but in the long run there are far more winners than losers. I look forward to somewhat cheaper milk and cheese, and to the opportunities that our domestic industries will have to sell into larger markets.

One thing is for sure, protectionism screws over consumers, and quite often allows the protected industries to exist in an extended and ultimately harmful dotage.

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This is Unifor crap.

Last week they said it was 26,000, this week they said 20,000. A professor at U of T looked into this and crunched the #, he said it was going to be 3/4 of 1% of jobs affected. If you ask me to cite this, go watch Power and Politics. I'm too lazy to dig up the study. About 5:10pm EST tonight.

You know how to tell if the auto companies are really going to get hurt? All the Canadian auto parts manufacturer stocks were up nicely today.

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It used to be 20 years. Did they really reduce it to only 8?

How would anyone know? Where are the details? We have Conservatives running around the country patting themselves on the back and newspaper columnists breathlessly announcing what a great thing this will be. And nobody is allowed to know what's in it.

Democracy - Conservative style.

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I keep asking, "Where is the compassion for fletchers and buggy wheel manufacturers?"

Inevitably free trade has its losers, as protected industries are opened up, but in the long run there are far more winners than losers. I look forward to somewhat cheaper milk and cheese, and to the opportunities that our domestic industries will have to sell into larger markets.

One thing is for sure, protectionism screws over consumers, and quite often allows the protected industries to exist in an extended and ultimately harmful dotage.

You might get cheaper milk. It will be great for beef farmers. They are already getting record prices and with more customers, it will only get better.

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You might get cheaper milk. It will be great for beef farmers. They are already getting record prices and with more customers, it will only get better.

If you don't mind milk laden with growth hormones and antibiotics.

And if the beef producers get better prices, it means we will pay more as well.

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How would anyone know? Where are the details? We have Conservatives running around the country patting themselves on the back and newspaper columnists breathlessly announcing what a great thing this will be. And nobody is allowed to know what's in it.

Democracy - Conservative style.

If nobody knows what's in it, how do people know the details that they are reporting?

Lots of information is posted here for anyone who has time to dig through it:

http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/tpp-ptp/index.aspx?lang=eng

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If you don't mind milk laden with growth hormones and antibiotics.

And if the beef producers get better prices, it means we will pay more as well.

Import dairy products have to meet Canadian specifications. That is part of the agreement so don't expect to get it as cheap as you can buy it in the US.

Yes we will pay more for beef if we export more.

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If nobody knows what's in it, how do people know the details that they are reporting?

Lots of information is posted here for anyone who has time to dig through it:

http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/tpp-ptp/index.aspx?lang=eng

You call that information??? It's propaganda.

If we have an agreement, release the text so that it can be analyzed by people who aren't trying to sell it to me.

Here's an example

Ensures that laws provide acceptable conditions of work with respect to minimum wages, hours of work, and occupational health and safety.

Sounds nice but wtf does that mean??? Am I to assume that China will have the same minimum wage and hours of work as Canada? Or does it mean that China will have a minimum wage and hours of work?

This is crap.

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Import dairy products have to meet Canadian specifications. That is part of the agreement so don't expect to get it as cheap as you can buy it in the US.

Or until the US Agribusiness Industry sues Canada because we can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that their growth hormones are harmful. Ever hear of the MMT debacle under NAFTA?

Yes we will pay more for beef if we export more.

And who is going to analyze the agreement and point out all the negatives so Canadians understand them?

The government is now marketing this while withholding the details. And the media is mostly cheerleading. This is not good for democracy.

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You call that information??? It's propaganda.

If we have an agreement, release the text so that it can be analyzed by people who aren't trying to sell it to me.

Here's an example

Sounds nice but wtf does that mean??? Am I to assume that China will have the same minimum wage and hours of work as Canada? Or does it mean that China will have a minimum wage and hours of work?

This is crap.

They just finalized the agreement today. The full text is obviously going to be posted, all trade agreements are.

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Or until the US Agribusiness Industry sues Canada because we can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that their growth hormones are harmful. Ever hear of the MMT debacle under NAFTA?

Because it part of a trade agreement. If the Americans don't want to abide by it, we don't have to. There are 12 countries involved here not just two and the US isn't the focus of what we wanted from this agreement.

And who is going to analyze the agreement and point out all the negatives so Canadians understand them?

What might be a negative for Canadian consumers could be a big positive for Canadian producers. There are winners and losers in everything. You can't have producers getting top dollar and consumers getting cheaper goods at the same time.

The government is now marketing this while withholding the details. And the media is mostly cheerleading. This is not good for democracy.

The agreement was just made public this morning. What do you expect.
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Because it part of a trade agreement. If the Americans don't want to abide by it, we don't have to. There are 12 countries involved here not just two and the US isn't the focus of what we wanted from this agreement.

You're dodging the issue. Under NAFTA, Corporations in US and Mexico can sue Canada if they disagree with environmental or health legislation. Ethyl Corporation launched a $251 million lawsuit when Canada wanted to ban MMT. This investor-state dispute settlement mechanisms provide foreign corporations with a standing that is preferential to domestic corporations or individuals. This agreement open the door to a bunch more companies in a bunch more countries to do the same.

So, if American Agribusiness decides that they don't like our ban on growth hormones, they don't have to prove their case in our court.

What might be a negative for Canadian consumers could be a big positive for Canadian producers. There are winners and losers in everything. You can't have producers getting top dollar and consumers getting cheaper goods at the same time.

Thank you. That's exactly my point. Instead of a bunch of cheerleaders running around and telling us this is wonderful, we need some objective analysis. Where are we going to get that?
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You're dodging the issue. Under NAFTA, Corporations in US and Mexico can sue Canada if they disagree with environmental or health legislation. Ethyl Corporation launched a $251 million lawsuit when Canada wanted to ban MMT. This investor-state dispute settlement mechanisms provide foreign corporations with a standing that is preferential to domestic corporations or individuals. This agreement open the door to a bunch more companies in a bunch more countries to do the same.

So, if American Agribusiness decides that they don't like our ban on growth hormones, they don't have to prove their case in our court.

I'm not dodging anything. This is an agreement between twelve countries. A country will not be able to pick and choose which parts of it they want to abide by without jeopardizing everything in it. Access to our dairy was not the primary object of US interests and involves a very small part of what the US wants from it. Like us, access to Japanese markets is their primary interest and if you think they will be willing to jeopardize that for a puny 3.25% of our dairy market which they will have to share with New Zealand and Australia, you should quit smoking that stuff.

BTW. this is the TPP, not NAFTA. Nine of these countries did not sign NAFTA. NAFTA rules do not apply.

Edited by Wilber
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I'm not dodging anything. This is an agreement between twelve countries. A country will not be able to pick and choose which parts of it they want to abide by without jeopardizing everything in it. Access to our dairy was not the primary object of US interests and involves a very small part of what the US wants from it. Like us, access to Japanese markets is their primary interest and if you think they will be willing to jeopardize that for a puny 3.25% of our dairy market which they will have to share with New Zealand and Australia, you should quit smoking that stuff.

BTW. this is the TPP, not NAFTA. Nine of these countries did not sign NAFTA. NAFTA rules do not apply.

TPP will supersede NAFTA but it doesn't matter because you're missing the point.

This agreement has investor-state dispute settlement rules, just like NAFTA. But, unlike NAFTA, TPP includes agriculture. So, US Agribusiness will be able to challenge our rules against growth hormones. And they can do it without affecting anything else in the agreement. Sorry if you're not getting it. Go do some research on investor-state dispute settlement.

And BTW. When people are reduced to poking fun at my handle, it's a clear sign they have nothing intelligent to say.

Edited by ReeferMadness
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TPP will supersede NAFTA but it doesn't matter because you're missing the point.

This agreement has investor-state dispute settlement rules, just like NAFTA. But, unlike NAFTA, TPP includes agriculture. So, US Agribusiness will be able to challenge our rules against growth hormones. And they can do it without affecting anything else in the agreement. Sorry if you're not getting it. Go do some research on investor-state dispute settlement.

And BTW. When people are reduced to poking fun at my handle, it's a clear sign they have nothing intelligent to say.

Aren't you the one complaining about the lack of information? So do you actually know this about the TPP and how do you know? Or are you just making it up?

If you don't want fun poked at your handle, chose another one.

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Setting a pharma companies monopoly at eight years isn't going to break any banks.

So I just finished listening to Evan Soloman's XM show, and according to the guests he had on that is what the TPP partners agreed to: a LOWERING of the pharma patent protections from 20 years to only 8. Not only that, but the generic drug companies get to start in-house testing much earlier than before, so that they can launch the generic products immediately upon the patent expiring. If that's the case, what are MSF upset about?

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How can the new agreement be criticized when we have ot even seen a draft copy of it? We need to see and understand the wording of it before we can make an intelligent assessment of it eh?

doesn't seem to affect all the glowing testimonials coming forward; of course, lazy journalism rules as the lame-azzed mainstream media simply repeats whatever is fed to them... and I'm shocked that all the selective cadre of pro-business lobbyists and business heads appearing on news shows/clips are giving it ringing endorsements... before seeing the full treaty details; shocked I tells ya!

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doesn't seem to affect all the glowing testimonials coming forward; of course, lazy journalism rules as the lame-azzed mainstream media simply repeats whatever is fed to them... and I'm shocked that all the selective cadre of pro-business lobbyists and business heads appearing on news shows/clips are giving it ringing endorsements... before seeing the full treaty details; shocked I tells ya!

Freeish trade is a wonderful thing.

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