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Incidents that result in 3rd parties dying that did not make a choice to participate in a risky activity tend to cause widespread public dread even if the statistics show that the choices people make are much more deadly. It is irrational but human nature to fear what cannot be controlled.

Hysteria is the only word I can come up that describes the fear of control.

NEW WORRY: RFID TRACKING CHIPS IN FIREARMS?

American gun owners and consumers were whipped into a frenzy of suspicion and fear that government agents will be able to use these RFID chips to track their firearms.

Bill S.1224 187th (2011 - 2012) An Act relative to a study commission on GPS locators in firearms

SECTION 1. A special commission after this referred to as the Global Positioning System Locators in Firearms Study Commission, is hereby established for the purpose of making an investigation and study relative to the feasibility of placing Global Positioning System (“GPS”) locators in firearms.

It would be better if gun owners respond to what's coming proactively instead of emotionally and irrationally.

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Yep...that's exactly what we said about tracking fish-boats, but at least I'm not talking about also installing cameras on guns like we had to on our boats. I certainly thought it was a little weird when I first ran a monitored boat but the truth is it only took about 10 minutes to get over it.

I look at it this way now, the more people there are like me that are required to track, audit and validate their whereabouts and activities where the public's interest are deemed to be at risk the more there will be of us pointing out the need to monitor other risks to the public's interest, like the government.

In the meantime have no fear, leave your hysteria behind and come on out...the water's just fine.

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Yep...that's exactly what we said about tracking fish-boats, but at least I'm not talking about also installing cameras on guns like we had to on our boats. I certainly thought it was a little weird when I first ran a monitored boat but the truth is it only took about 10 minutes to get over it.

I look at it this way now, the more people there are like me that are required to track, audit and validate their whereabouts and activities where the public's interest are deemed to be at risk the more there will be of us pointing out the need to monitor other risks to the public's interest, like the government.

In the meantime have no fear, leave your hysteria behind and come on out...the water's just fine.

Could you imagine the police roll up to a crowded busy area with suspsicion that someone will commit a crime. And are able to pinpoint anyone in the crowd with a firearm?

If you had a gun registry to go along with it, you could effectively track every single firearm from manufacturing to possession. If a GPS goes offline, we know exactly who to call to ask about it. If they did it on purpose it would be a felony offence. We can even track these guns overseas and in Mexico.

The amendment only says people have the right to bear arms. It says nothing about their right not to have those arms tracked.

I could imagine the hysteria that would cause. They wanna take er guns! Nope we don't want to take them, we just want to know exactly where they are.

Edited by PrimeNumber
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Yep...that's exactly what we said about tracking fish-boats, but at least I'm not talking about also installing cameras on guns like we had to on our boats

Boats have electrical power. Guns do not. There's nothing to power a GPS, no electronics, no batteries, plus the recoil, the explosive power of the gun going off would jar the hell out of most electronics pretty quickly. Plus whoever stole the gun would just rip out the battery, or whatever. It's not legal guns that are the problem, after all, but stolen and smuggled guns.

Edited by Argus
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You hear about a lot of baseball bat massacres, eh? Lone batters walking into black churches killing a bunch of people? Walking into schools and murdering several children with them? Walking into movie theatres and bashing in a dozen skulls?

Baseball bats. Just like guns. No difference whatsoever there.

Right, but then you're responding to a comment I made in discussion over a specific type of gun (AR-15) that is demonized in these topical conversations, even though more Americans are killed annually with bats/clubs/hammers etc then by rifles, including AR-15s.........hence the fear surrounding this specific firearm is unfounded by the numbers.

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Now you're making a distinction that I think we should talk more about.

Nine black people murdered would be, what, a pretty typical weekend in Detroit? But nine black people murdered in a single act of hatred is shocking to us (and rightfully so.) But an impartial look at the numbers indicates that these massacre type shootings represent a drop in the bucket of overall murders.

To me, that suggests that the political aftermath that results from these incidents is less about saving lives, and more about our emotional reaction to the events. I understand and share the emotional reaction, but is that the best basis for shaping public policy?

Well said, and I would suggest, because of these typical irrational emotion laden outbursts after such the events, most gun owners are unable to follow the logic when they too are "attacked" by the antis for the actions of a deranged killer.......in turn, "we" further cement our distrust in the antis motivations and respond in kind with emotional rhetoric (and by buying more guns and ammo)..........

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Boats have electrical power. Guns do not. There's nothing to power a GPS, no electronics, no batteries, plus the recoil, the explosive power of the gun going off would jar the hell out of most electronics pretty quickly. Plus whoever stole the gun would just rip out the battery, or whatever. It's not legal guns that are the problem, after all, but stolen and smuggled guns.

Somebody rips out the battery you have a last known location and a cross reference to a phone number to call the registered owner. Of course no system is entirely foolproof, but sitting on your hands is really foolish.

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I'm on my mobile atm. Once I get home I'll post one for you.

Let me help you with that research.

Here are the statements of secession from many of the states. These were all taken from a historians post over at reddit. You can find the original post here.

  • Mississippi:

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

  • Texas:

Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?

  • South Carolina

The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution.

  • Georgia

The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic.

The person who posted this also points to the Cornerstone Speech by Confederate VP Alexander Stephens who declared, "The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution — African slavery as it exists amongst us — the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization" and further that "Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea ["equality of the races"]; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

So you want to back up and maybe recognize that the South was indeed fighting for slavery.

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Fear is a powerful thing. There is no evidence that owing a firearm reduces your risk of being injured in a crime and significant evidence that owing a gun increases the risk of death to you, your spouse or your children. Yet...people still buy guns for protection, despite the irrationality. Groups like the NRA have done a good job convincing many to deny logic and go against their best interests when it comes to safety.

Our government has used the fear of an almost non-existent Islamic terrorism threat to strip away privacy rights. Is it rational? no...but fearful people make irrational decisions like buying guns for protection or giving unchecked, secretive powers to secret police.

Fear is a powerful thing, and is also why the gun-control movement dances upon the graves of victims of criminal violence to attempt to further their own agenda.......

And by all means, please provide your significant evidence that owning a gun increases ones risk of death by gun.......but, said evidence, based on distorted statistics, does not make mention that it is based on gun ownership/gun violence rates, which with American data, includes those engaged in criminal activity.....In essence, criminals that own guns are more likely to die from guns, then criminals without guns or law abiding citizens, gun owners and not....your "evidence" makes no distinction.

As you were saying about "fear" as a tool.......

And no, groups like the NRA are reflective of its membership, as most American gun owners see a firearm in the house as no different than having house/car insurance.......something that one hopes they never need, and the vast majority don't, but when/if they do, its invaluable.

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I think that media sensationalism has played a role in giving people a distorted view of what actually constitutes a threat to the public safety. I don't think the emotional response to these incidents is the best basis for public policy.

-k

There's a fundamental difference between people dying from recreational accidents, including hunting, and those who die because people have easy and convenient access to the tools they need to wipe out nine people in a matter of seconds. I also wholly reject your claim that nobody cares about the numerous deaths that occur everyday across the US from gun violence. There are many groups who've been speaking out against this and working against this for years. You get more people talking about it when there's something shocking enough to make the evening news. But that doesn't change the fact that people shown those other acts of violence would be likewise appalled.

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Boats have electrical power. Guns do not. There's nothing to power a GPS, no electronics, no batteries, plus the recoil, the explosive power of the gun going off would jar the hell out of most electronics pretty quickly. Plus whoever stole the gun would just rip out the battery, or whatever. It's not legal guns that are the problem, after all, but stolen and smuggled guns.

And of course, there are over 300 million guns and upwards of ~8-10 million tons of ammunition in the United States.........enough already in private hands for the next six or seven civil wars.........a Government that attempted to mandate such a plan would likely find itself deposed rather quick.

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And of course, there are over 300 million guns and upwards of ~8-10 million tons of ammunition in the United States.........enough already in private hands for the next six or seven civil wars.........a Government that attempted to mandate such a plan would likely find itself deposed rather quick.

Typical gun lover talk, sounds like you are almost proud of those stats and of course willing to sit on your hands with regard to any progress to try and rein in the problem. Perhaps you are not familiar with how GPS works for starters.

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Typical gun lover talk, sounds like you are almost proud of those stats and of course willing to sit on your hands with regard to any progress to try and rein in the problem. Perhaps you are not familiar with how GPS works for starters.

And perhaps you're not familiar with reality, and how even if feasible, one would implant a GPS unit in 300 million firearms in the United States.....one need only look at the compliance levels (lack there of) with the recently mandated registry of firearms in New York and Connecticut......gun owners openly refused, marching on State capitals and deriding both politicians and law enforcement in town hall meetings......likewise the fact that City/State/County law enforcement largely refuse to enforce such State laws for their own safety says it all......hence:

Edited by Michael Hardner
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And perhaps you're not familiar with reality, and how even if feasible, one would implant a GPS unit in 300 million firearms in the United States.....one need only look at the compliance levels (lack there of) with the recently mandated registry of firearms in New York and Connecticut......gun owners openly refused, marching on State capitals and deriding both politicians and law enforcement in town hall meetings......likewise the fact that City/State/County law enforcement largely refuse to enforce such State laws for their own safety says it all......hence:

So people marching around is how they decide law in the US...no wonder they are having such problems. Put a GPS chip in every new gun sold in the US. It would take a while to saturate but it would be better than doing jack all. And it wouldn't even interfere with this BS second amendment the gun freaks seem to coddle so close. Edited by Michael Hardner
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There's a fundamental difference between people dying from recreational accidents, including hunting, and those who die because people have easy and convenient access to the tools they need to wipe out nine people in a matter of seconds.

While I agree that mass shootings are shocking and upsetting, I think we should maintain some perspective about how rare these incidents are.

Here's a table compiled by Mother Jones listing mass US shooting incidents.

Nine so far this year, 9 in 2014, 36 in 2013, 72 in 2012, 19 in 2011, 9 in 2010, 39 in 2009, 18 in 2008, 54 in 2007, and 21 in 2006.

That's 286 total deaths in mass shootings in the US since 2006.

For comparison sake, there were 276 deaths in the US due to lightning between 2006 and 2014.

In the US, the odds of dying in a mass shooting are literally the same as being struck by lightning.

I don't say this to make light of these incidents, I am just trying to provide some perspective on how incredibly rare these events are.

I also wholly reject your claim that nobody cares about the numerous deaths that occur everyday across the US from gun violence. There are many groups who've been speaking out against this and working against this for years. You get more people talking about it when there's something shocking enough to make the evening news. But that doesn't change the fact that people shown those other acts of violence would be likewise appalled.

Ok, so again: is it about saving lives?

If it's about saving lives, I think by far the better focus would be on addressing the causes of violence, rather than the tools.

In Canada, for example, I don't believe we have a gun violence problem. However, certain neighborhoods in Greater Vancouver (for example) have a gun violence problem. That's because these are areas where drug gangs are busy wiping each other out. Perhaps if Canada had a more intelligent policy in regard to drugs, the trade in illegal drugs would not be so lucrative and the resulting violence would be stemmed as well.

-k

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So people marching around is how they decide law in the US...no wonder they are having such problems.

Yes indeed, the last time the State attempted to control guns and powder, not only did they not comply, they killed the agents of the State sent to enforce this mandate and then threw a Tea Party........

Put a GPS chip in every new gun sold in the US. It would take a while to saturate but it would be better than doing jack all. And it wouldn't even interfere with this BS second amendment the gun freaks seem to coddle so close.

Your GPS chips would be removed, and then so to the Government...

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While I agree that mass shootings are shocking and upsetting, I think we should maintain some perspective about how rare these incidents are.

Moreover, about 87 people are killed by guns each day in the U.S., the majority being suicides. So called "mass shootings" are great for media hype, but only a drop in the bucket for total gun deaths each year.

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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