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The right to bear arms for a militia. But they were still just tools until Hollywood started glorifying the hero with the gun.

The right to own and bear arms has been upheld by the USSC. No reference to Hollywood required, but I do understand how important Hollywood productions are in Canada !

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The link you provided doesn't say anything to support the last half of your claim.

You don't believe the NRA once supported background checks?

https://youtu.be/zI6FnSytSYg

And today:

More recently, the NRA has supported legislation to ensure that appropriate records of those who have been judged mentally incompetent or involuntarily committed to mental institutions be made available for use in firearms transfer background checks. The NRA will support any reasonable step to fix America’s broken mental health system without intruding on the constitutional rights of Americans.
Conservatives don't like criminals. They don't care much for doing anything about it beyond banging them up in jail.

Of course, why would we want criminals on the streets..........guilty as charged.

Lots of people already have. He's pretty well discredited.

Like who? I've yet to see anyone refute his claim that "mass shootings" namely occur in "gun free zones".

But they didn't and they don't, so this is just another red herring. Many people who attempt suicide with other methods will fail and not try again. With guns, they seldom get a second chance.

Do you have a source that other methods fail more often? Canadians commit suicide at nearly the same rate as Americans, with Canadians males preferring to do themselves in by the noose, and women with pills......One could argue that Canadians have better access to mental healthcare providers, to explain the slightly lower rate.......but Canadians wishing to kill themselves just use a different method........

And then you can continue to do what you are doing for poverty and mental health: absolutely nothing.

Right.........so what have the social justice warriors and poverty pimps been doing?

My "ilk" will have to because your ilk certainly won't.

Pitter-patter than.....

I love the idea that rates of violent crime aren't inextricably tied to access to the tools of the trade.

Right, but I never said that.

What no Switzerland? :rolleyes:

Compared with other high-income countries, the United States has a homicide rate 6.9 times higher, a difference driven almost exclusively by firearm homicide rates that are 19.5 times higher. There was a significant positive correlation between guns per capita per country and the rate of firearm-related deaths. This is data, not cherry picked anecdotes.

Ahh but it is cherry picked, as you qualify using "high-income countries"................Would you consider the blacks shooting each other in the United States to be of high income? Inversely, are the Mexican drug cartels poor?

It would seem the underlining issue is present despite the overall wealth of a given nation, or in the case of Mexico, its stringent gun laws.........criminals will get guns and shoot each other.

We haven't failed. Canada, like most civilized countries, regulates firearms and enjoys a successful balance between the good of society and the legitimate needs of farmers and hunters and saddo gun fetishists alike.

But have you? Canada doesn't have anywhere near the instances of poverty, criminal activity nor untreated mental illness as the United States. Inversely, for the minute instances of gun violence we do have, the majority of cases are committed with guns obtained despite our regulations and controls.

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It is, like I said, odd that Mexico has stringent gun control measures, yet 4-5 times greater rates of gun violence than the United States.......

Great comparison, if Mexico's policing was even remotely the same as the United States and not a bunch of corrupt paid off stooges for the cartels.

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The right to own and bear arms has been upheld by the USSC. No reference to Hollywood required, but I do understand how important Hollywood productions are in Canada !

USSC is also stupid enough to declare that paying off politicians is free political speech and that corporations are people too. The petty political BS that fuels the USSC has made it little better than a clown show.

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Great comparison, if Mexico's policing was even remotely the same as the United States and not a bunch of corrupt paid off stooges for the cartels.

So criminals are able to get guns, well both paying off and intimidating Mexican police (with guns), via the sole gun store in Mexico run by the Army, despite Mexican gun control laws?

It would seem then that the Mexican Government could simply close said store and as a result cases of gun violence would decrease.......call me crazy, but I doubt that would work........

Inversely...........it would seem that there might be a better way to control gun violence, both in Mexico and the United States (and to a lesser extent Canada):

Homicides in Mexico have dropped from 22,852 in 2011 to 15,649 as of 2014, which tracks relatively closely with the legalization of marijuana in Colorado and Washington, although the link between the two events is not conclusive.

Odd that once the reason for much of the violence has been diminished, ever so slightly I might add, the results are substantial.........and the Mexican Government didn't even need to close its sole gun store, nor further restrict Mexicans access to legal gun ownership..........what a notion.

Furthermore, I might suggest, and I could be wrong, if the current level of resources used to combat drug related crime were freed-up by the legalization of recreational drugs, then there would be vastly more resources to publicly treat mental illness and poverty that has a direct tie to criminal activity........I know it must sound crazy, actually pointing to workable solutions that might resolve a goodly amount of the causes of gun violence, but there you go.....

As to why social justice warriors and poverty pimps still go after the legal ownership of firearms, a fight that they are getting their asses handed to them I might add, as opposed to tackling the actual causes of violent crime, is beyond me.........my only thoughts as to why this might be is do to (lack of) intelligence, a haphazard emotional response, or in some cases, an ulterior motive rooted in the control of the populace through social(ist) engineering, of which, an armed populace is a major hurdle....

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No...the clown shows are produced in Hollywood and gobbled up by Canadian viewers...trying to forget their crappy CanCon choices.

Legal American firearms (guns) are also very popular "north of the border". Canadians love their guns too.

And we also love our gun controls. I guess thats why our gun homicide rate is so much lower than yours.

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You don't believe the NRA once supported background checks?

https://youtu.be/zI6FnSytSYg

And today:

Re-read whiat I wrote, then try again.

Of course, why would we want criminals on the streets..........guilty as charged.

Yes you care not for poverty reduction or mental health. It's a fig leaf you strokers put on whenever talk turns to sensible gun policies.

Like who? I've yet to see anyone refute his claim that "mass shootings" namely occur in "gun free zones".

That's not his claim. Lott's claim is killers choose targets based on whether or not there will be guns there. here's what he said last week on Fox:

"Indeed, the circumstantial evidence is strong that these killers don’t attack randomly; they keep picking the few gun-free zones to do virtually all their attacks."

This is simply farcical on its face. Mass murderers choose their locations not on the basis of guns but based on the presence of the people they want to shoot.

Do you have a source that other methods fail more often?
About 85% of attempts with a firearm are fatal: that’s a much higher case fatality rate than for nearly every other method. Many of the most widely used suicide attempt methods have case fatality rates below 5%.

-link-

Canadians commit suicide at nearly the same rate as Americans, with Canadians males preferring to do themselves in by the noose, and women with pills......One could argue that Canadians have better access to mental healthcare providers, to explain the slightly lower rate.......but Canadians wishing to kill themselves just use a different method........

This has nothing to do with the point about survivability as unsuccessful suicide attempts are not captured by these figures.

Ahh but it is cherry picked, as you qualify using "high-income countries"................Would you consider the blacks shooting each other in the United States to be of high income? Inversely, are the Mexican drug cartels poor?

So should we compare the U.S. to the likes of Iraq and Somalia? Apples to apples.

It would seem the underlining issue is present despite the overall wealth of a given nation, or in the case of Mexico, its stringent gun laws.........criminals will get guns and shoot each other.

Which is made a lot easier when you have ready to access to firearms. BTW, where do you think the Mexican cartels get their guns? It's not from Canada.

But have you? Canada doesn't have anywhere near the instances of poverty, criminal activity nor untreated mental illness as the United States. Inversely, for the minute instances of gun violence we do have, the majority of cases are committed with guns obtained despite our regulations and controls.

It's foolish to suggest stringent gun laws will stop all gun crime. And no one has.

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And we also love our gun controls. I guess thats why our gun homicide rate is so much lower than yours.

No. It's not hard for criminals to get guns in Canada. Our homicide rate is lower because we don't have vast slums full of hopeless people awash in drugs.

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No. It's not hard for criminals to get guns in Canada. Our homicide rate is lower because we don't have vast slums full of hopeless people awash in drugs.

All one need do is look at the statistics of various countries with strict gun laws (Canada, The UK, Japan, Australia for instance) and the ratio of gun homicides to see the difference vis a vis the US.

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All one need do is look at the statistics of various countries with strict gun laws (Canada, The UK, Japan, Australia for instance) and the ratio of gun homicides to see the difference vis a vis the US.

Yeah but Gun Control doesn't equal safety. Socio-economic conditions play a far more important role. There are parts of the US that are extra-orindarily safe and places in Canada that aren't.

I probably live in one of the safest places in Canada. I don't really worry if someone legally owns a gun near me or not.

Cities like Chicago have strict gun-control. But the crime is a real problem. The Gun Control is irrelevant.

Edited by Boges
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So criminals are able to get guns, well both paying off and intimidating Mexican police (with guns), via the sole gun store in Mexico run by the Army, despite Mexican gun control laws?

You know very well that the vast majority of illegal guns in both Canada and Mexico come from the United States. I have no interest in arguing about this with a gun lobbyist who lives in a fantasy world where widely and easily accessible firearms aren't a problem but a utopia. If you're going to pretend the Mexican Cartel operates in a vacuum within Mexico, what point is there in even addressing anything else you've said in your post?

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Yeah but Gun Control doesn't equal safety. Socio-economic conditions play a far more important role. There are parts of the US that are extra-orindarily safe and places in Canada that aren't.

I probably live in one of the safest places in Canada. I don't really worry if someone legally owns a gun near me or not.

Cities like Chicago have strict gun-control. But the crime is a real problem. The Gun Control is irrelevant.

Illinois tries but their laws are much weaker than ours, and the other problem they have is that both Indiana and Wisconsin are gun friendly, so if you are having trouble buying one in Chicago, just take a quick drive across the state line and you are in business. If gun control was irrelevant the statistics wouldn't be so compelling.

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Illinois tries but their laws are much weaker than ours, and the other problem they have is that both Indiana and Wisconsin are gun friendly, so if you are having trouble buying one in Chicago, just take a quick drive across the state line and you are in business. If gun control was irrelevant the statistics wouldn't be so compelling.

So the nearby states are at fault and not the socio-economic conditions in the city where the crime is actually happening. GOTCHA!

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Where is your gotcha. Tighten up the gun laws next door and bring down the gun homicide rate. Kinda like we do already in Canada.

There's still crime in big cities in Canada. People have illegal guns here too. The reason it's lower is the social safety net is higher.

Pick one Liberals. Is low crime because it's harder to get a gun or that the standard of living is higher. I'm sure it's a bit of both, but the later is FAR! more important.

It's when white people shoot up places where the standard of living is high (Aurora and Newtown and Charleston as examples) that this stuff makes the news. No one cares about places where the standard living is low that people shoot each other up.

Kind of the racism of lowered expectations.

There were a spat of shootings in Toronto years back and the response from the then (Pre-Ford) mayor was to try and ban all sales of guns, even legally. The gun control is as it is in Canada that he was only clamping down on Olympic target shooters.

Edited by Boges
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There's still crime in big cities in Canada. People have illegal guns here too. The reason it's lower is the social safety net is higher.

Pick one Liberals. Is low crime because it's harder to get a gun or that the standard of living is higher. I'm sure it's a bit of both, but the later is FAR! more important.

It's when white people shoot up places where the standard of living is high (Aurora and Newtown and Charleston as examples) that this stuff makes the news. No one cares about places where the standard living is low that people shoot each other up.

Kind of the racism of lowered expectations.

There were a spat of shootings in Toronto years back and the response from the then (Pre-Ford) mayor was to try and ban all sales of guns, even legally. The gun control is as it is in Canada that he was only clamping down on Olympic target shooters.

I am sure that standard of living is a factor but I think you may be attaching a bit more weight to it than it deserves. I would say having to provide background checks, obtaining third party verification, completing a course on safety, and then waiting out the waiting period is probably a little more of a barrier to people who shouldn't have guns than simply going for a quick drive across a state line.

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I am sure that standard of living is a factor but I think you may be attaching a bit more weight to it than it deserves. I would say having to provide background checks, obtaining third party verification, completing a course on safety, and then waiting out the waiting period is probably a little more of a barrier to people who shouldn't have guns than simply going for a quick drive across a state line.

Not if you don't plan on doing any of those things to get your gun even if the laws existed..

Edited by Boges
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Not if you don't plan on doing any of those things to get your gun even if the laws existed..

Yep, thats the standard old NRA type saw but again, the stats speak for themselves. Tougher laws arent going to stop everybody, thats for sure, but tougher laws make it easier to get caught and find your way to jail, where the worst you ca do is hurt yourself or another inmate. Years ago people never bothered with seat belts. Now I know no one who doesn't buckle up automatically.

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Re-read whiat I wrote, then try again.

What of it? The NRA no longer supports background checks that don't provide full mental health and criminal/arrest records......

Yes you care not for poverty reduction or mental health. It's a fig leaf you strokers put on whenever talk turns to sensible gun policies.

And what do you base that on?

That's not his claim. Lott's claim is killers choose targets based on whether or not there will be guns there. here's what he said last week on Fox:

This is simply farcical on its face. Mass murderers choose their locations not on the basis of guns but based on the presence of the people they want to shoot.

The passage I quoted from Lott said different. Likewise, that doesn't refute his study that the majority of "mass shooting" since the 1950s occur in areas that restrict the lawful carrying of firearms.......

This has nothing to do with the point about survivability as unsuccessful suicide attempts are not captured by these figures.

I see, so are you suggesting that more Canadians attempt suicide, but fail, because they are using rope/pills?

So should we compare the U.S. to the likes of Iraq and Somalia? Apples to apples.

Does Iraq and Somalia have state sponsored gun control laws? Also, did you not suggest that gun control only works in wealthy countries? Mexico, after all, is within the top 20 of world economies, surpassing the majority of European nations in terms of national wealth (only several spots back from Canada)..........

Which is made a lot easier when you have ready to access to firearms. BTW, where do you think the Mexican cartels get their guns? It's not from Canada.

Outside of the BATF? Clearly smuggled in from the World's largest firearms producers, the United States, Russia China, Israel and Belgium........An international gun expo:

ap081107022626.jpg

It's foolish to suggest stringent gun laws will stop all gun crime. And no one has.

Right, as made evident by the gun violence in Mexico, which has gun control laws far stricter than Canada and most of Europe.......but 4-5 times the gun violence as the United States.

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