On Guard for Thee Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I'm sorry, but it's you that needs to do some research. You didn't address any specific I mentioned. You just continue to talk in generalizations. And Im not sure what you are refering to being waived or whatever until 2016...as a matter of fact, after the recent SC ruling, the AHA is now entrenched in US law, so its here to stay, ad various polls show it continuing to gain popularity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Even the Republicans now seem to agree that the status quo as of 2008 needed improvement, and just disagree with how to fix it. Aside from Ted Cruz, the Republican thinking seems to be more along the lines of improving on Obamacare, rather than scrapping it. The Hatch-Burr-Upton plan would keep many elements of Obamacare, while getting rid of some controversial aspects and introducing some improvements (ending preferential treatment of insurance offered through employers in favor of individual tax credits for insurance, rate scales that are less tilted against young people). The big question is whether it could work when the individual mandate has been scrapped. But look at where the debate has gone in the past 8 years. It used to be that the Republican position on healthcare was that it was awesome as it was and the only thing that would make it better would be laws to reduce malpractice lawsuits. And the only plans being proposed were tax-free savings accounts to let people save for medical emergencies as if they were retirement plans or college tuition. Now everybody except Ted Cruz seems to agree that some sort of plan is required, and Republicans are even offering plans of their own. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Even the Republicans now seem to agree that the status quo as of 2008 needed improvement, and just disagree with how to fix it.Just like free trade after the 1988 election in Canada. The issue with the US is not whether the system needed fixing but the public willingness to accept the trade offs that come with change. For example, the waiting lists that Canadians grumble about but implicitly accept are a direct consequence of governments needing to control costs by limiting supply since demand is not limited by price. Americans are a lot less willing to accept that trade off which restricts what American politicians can do with the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 ....Now everybody except Ted Cruz seems to agree that some sort of plan is required, and Republicans are even offering plans of their own. Actually, Republicans proposed similar plans for health care "reform" decades ago, going back to President Nixon: http://www.salon.com/2013/10/29/nixon_proposed_todays_affordable_care_act_partner/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/ Quote Economics trumps Virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Well, again, look where the debate has gone in a short amount of time. It's gone from "the system is awesome, people who can't afford insurance don't matter and people who can't get insurance due to pre-existing conditions don't matter" to "we have to do something, but the President's plan is not the right answer." -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 People who can't afford insurance still don't matter. Quote Economics trumps Virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Once a social entitlement is established by law it is almost impossible to rescind it. Can anyone imagine some political party running on a platform to take affordable health care away fro 50 million (and growing) Americans? I think not. I believe that the issue is now dead and will not play in the next election. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Actually, 1990's "welfare reform" under Bill Clinton took away a a social entitlement. Quote Economics trumps Virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Once a social entitlement is established by law it is almost impossible to rescind it. Can anyone imagine some political party running on a platform to take affordable health care away fro 50 million (and growing) Americans? I think not. I believe that the issue is now dead and will not play in the next election. Nobody's running on taking away "affordable" health care. The issue is far from dead, considering that most of the mandates kick in a year from now, and all of the waivers and exemptions expire. You guys literally have no idea what you're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) Nobody's running on taking away "affordable" health care. The issue is far from dead, considering that most of the mandates kick in a year from now, and all of the waivers and exemptions expire. You guys literally have no idea what you're talking about.Right and shady is the expert on obamacare. Why do you think no one else has read up on this policy in the states? Do you honestly think posters here are talking out of their asses. And that we should believe you?Excuse me but I wouldn't trust your knowledge on this subject by a long shot. You provide nothing to back up your statements except "you guys don't know what your talking about". Edited June 29, 2015 by WestCoastRunner Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 It seems to me that there are two ways to effect change: 1. The Napoleon, Obama, Hitler way: Take advantage of a crisis and change things. 2. The Gorbachev, Trudeau, Nixon way: Work within the system and then change things. Which method works best? Going back to my OP, I reckon that method 2 is more sustainable: Mao used method 1; Deng used method 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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