Widow suing Khadr

[WestCanMan]

48 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Hah...didn't think so.

So your support for this terrorist only extends so far as not to be a danger to your family and home.

Most prudent. He's killed before.

Do you honestly think that terrorists are a threat to terrorist supporters?

Eyeball has nothing to fear from Khadr, and our PM doesn’t have need security to protect him from islamic state or al qaeda. 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said:

Hah...didn't think so.

So your support for this terrorist only extends so far as not to be a danger to your family and home.

You didn't think period.  I've made it quite clear I'd trust Khadr in my home with my family long before I'd ever trust anyone like you.  I'd happily leave you to starve in the street while bbqing hamburgers for Khadr.  I have zero reason whatsoever to mistrust or fear him. You OTOH have clearly indicated you hate my guts so...

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Most prudent. He's killed before.

That's an proven allegation that hasn't been tried in any legal court anywhere which is a good part of why he was awarded 10.5 million in the 1st place.  If you'd simply advocated that Canada and its allies follow the proper rule of law instead of your jihad against Islam Khadr could have been properly treated and cared for and at a lot less expense. Canada could have done that, the US even called us and said "uh...we got one of your's what should we do"?

You'll just have to get over the fact that no one said "put a bullet in his head".

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

You can forgive Khadr for killing an American because you think that's ok anyways,   

Assuming that's what actually happened it's probably what I would done if I thought I might die otherwise.  You'd just take it like an unlawful combatant?

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but if a 15 yr-old Canadian was an unlawful combatant and killed a member of the Quds force would you still want them to get $10M after just spending 10 years in prison?

Are you on LSD?

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Until he's in custody he's just an unlawful combatant and as such the legal combatants on the field had every right to kill him. You can't expect soldiers to id people before they defend themselves.

But this 15-year-old kid, in the middle of battle, should somehow have shown more presence of mind and ability to figure out who's who than adult soldiers.  Right.

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The Canadian government under Chretien and then Harper didn't mete out any injustice on him, they just didn't fight to get him released.

You are wrong.  The Canadian government sent people over to "interview" him; both the American and Canadian courts condemned the way in which these intertogations were carried out.  This is part of why the Canadian government ended up paying $10 million bucks.

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

And with him being a murderer and war criminal, why should we care?  

Wonder if you'd feel the same about a 15-year-old boy, picked up by the Iranians, accused of killing an Iranian  despite conflicting evidence, handed over to the Russians to spend 8 years in prison, being tortured until he finally confessed.  

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Khadr was born and raised to be a terrorist with bomb-making videos on the internet

So it serms.  Why is it that if a teenage girl wears a hijab or a niqab, she's been "brainwashed" or is "oppressed" but a teenage boy who is "raised to be a terrorist", he's neither been brainwashed nor oppressed.  

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

He was old enough to know right from wrong and he killed someone

He was 15.  He was brainwashed.  He was in the midst of battle.  The idea that he should have known "right from wrong" and done nothing at that point in time is ludicrous.  The soldiers who found him - adults - weren't even sure what was going on, and you somehow expect a 15-year-old to know and do better.

"Khadr confessed to murdering Christopher Speer, a medic who rushed to his aid,” tweeted Jason Kenney, leader of the Progressive Conservative Association of Alberta.

That is incorrect according to testimony from the American soldiers who were there.

“I just remember being dumbstruck that there was someone being alive in there,” a Delta Force soldier told the Star during an interview for the CBC documentary Guantanamo’s Child. “After all that bombing, after all the ordinance we dropped in there, somebody was still alive.”

As the soldiers cleared the compound, their weapons were drawn. They did not expect any survivors.

A Pentagon report written after the firefight interviewing the soldier who shot Khadr, identified only as OC-1, raises the possibility that someone else was alive in the compound when the grenade that ultimately killed Speer was thrown. “He heard moaning coming from the back of the compound. The dust rose up from the ground and began to clear. He then saw a man facing him lying on his right side,” the report states. “The man had an AK-47 on the ground beside him and the man was moving. OC-1 fired one round striking the man in the head and the movement ceased. Dust was again stirred by this rifle shot. When the dust rose, he saw a second man sitting up facing away from him leaning against the brush. This man, later identified as Khadr, was moving . . . . OC-1 fired two rounds both of which struck Khadr in the back.”

Randy Watt, the commander who wrote that report after the action, later revised it to state that only one person was alive when the grenade was thrown. In an interview, he attributed the confusion to the “fog of battle.” He changed the report, he said, because he thought Khadr had been killed due to the severity of his injuries.

The report, and testimony from Watt and OC-1, would have been key evidence at Khadr’s Guantanamo trial, which was halted when the Pentagon offered him a plea deal.

A condition of the deal was that Khadr confess to killing Speer, which he did during an emotional 2010 hearing at Guantanamo where Speer’s widow Tabitha was present. Once released, Khadr did not deny throwing the grenade as his lawyers have insisted.

He said he simply does not know and hopes he didn’t."

Khadr probably didn't kill anyone. 

[eyeball]

Of course it does need to be said there is a lot of truth to the statement Omar Khadr was an unlawful combatant but only because its highly illegal to indoctrinate and recruit children into fighting the wars and armed conflicts that adults start.

We knew that when we entered the fray ourselves.

Edited January 19, 2020 by eyeball

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

But this 15-year-old kid, in the middle of battle, should somehow have shown more presence of mind and ability to figure out who's who than adult soldiers.  Right.

You are wrong.  The Canadian government sent people over to "interview" him; both the American and Canadian courts condemned the way in which these intertogations were carried out.  This is part of why the Canadian government ended up paying $10 million bucks.

Wonder if you'd feel the same about a 15-year-old boy, picked up by the Iranians, accused of killing an Iranian  despite conflicting evidence, handed over to the Russians to spend 8 years in prison, being tortured until he finally confessed.  

So it serms.  Why is it that if a teenage girl wears a hijab or a niqab, she's been "brainwashed" or is "oppressed" but a teenage boy who is "raised to be a terrorist", he's neither been brainwashed nor oppressed.  

He was a trained terrorist and even if he didn't commit murder he was still a terrorist and an accomplice to murder. 

If a 15 yr old Canadian goes to Iran to commit terrorist attacks I'll be sad for him but I'm not dumb enough to assume that they'll let him live, let alone give him $10M.

Why would you say that he was brainwashed or oppressed? It's your religion... It's normal. Literally 90% of the people in Afghanistan and Pakistan have this done to them. The governments there still administer the death penalty for blasphemy there.

If you're not brainwashed then why don't you turn your back on the religion that kills and oppresses so many people and foments so much hatred? If you don't believe they're haters then go check out AJ+ (Al Jazeera+) one day. That's the main news netwok from the muslim world. They didn't say a word about the genocide in Levant on AJ+, instead they'd dig up a 100 yr old story of some bcakwarsd fckus in Loozyana who killed a black girl for some trivial thing, as if it was an indictment of every living American on earth today. Or they'd talk about some Hindus who raped a muslim girl in India and they'd follow that story for months (they'd ignore all 25,000 rapes committed all across the rest of the earth in that period of time) and act as if it was indicative of the sentiments of every Hindu in India. Then they'd post about fluffy bunnies and a cute kid who saved some whales, then vent some anti-Israeli spew and continue to ignore islamic state's genocide. That's YOUR RELIGION sending that crap out. They're fomenting hatred like a volcano of invective. Go read their screed. The pattern is: pump out two fluff stories, foment hatred against _____, post another in-depth fluff story to get some liberal credibility, another post to incite more hatred, three more  fluff stories, fear monger post, fluff story post, hate Trump post, more fluffy bunnies, rinse, repeat. 

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He was 15.  He was brainwashed.  He was in the midst of battle.  The idea that he should have known "right from wrong" and done nothing at that point in time is ludicrous.  The soldiers who found him - adults - weren't even sure what was going on, and you somehow expect a 15-year-old to know and do better.

f He should never have been there.

Quote

"Khadr confessed to murdering Christopher Speer, a medic who rushed to his aid,” tweeted Jason Kenney, leader of the Progressive Conservative Association of Alberta.

That is incorrect according to testimony from the American soldiers who were there.

“I just remember being dumbstruck that there was someone being alive in there,” a Delta Force soldier told the Star during an interview for the CBC documentary Guantanamo’s Child. “After all that bombing, after all the ordinance we dropped in there, somebody was still alive.”

As the soldiers cleared the compound, their weapons were drawn. They did not expect any survivors.

A Pentagon report written after the firefight interviewing the soldier who shot Khadr, identified only as OC-1, raises the possibility that someone else was alive in the compound when the grenade that ultimately killed Speer was thrown. “He heard moaning coming from the back of the compound. The dust rose up from the ground and began to clear. He then saw a man facing him lying on his right side,” the report states. “The man had an AK-47 on the ground beside him and the man was moving. OC-1 fired one round striking the man in the head and the movement ceased. Dust was again stirred by this rifle shot. When the dust rose, he saw a second man sitting up facing away from him leaning against the brush. This man, later identified as Khadr, was moving . . . . OC-1 fired two rounds both of which struck Khadr in the back.”

Randy Watt, the commander who wrote that report after the action, later revised it to state that only one person was alive when the grenade was thrown. In an interview, he attributed the confusion to the “fog of battle.” He changed the report, he said, because he thought Khadr had been killed due to the severity of his injuries.

The report, and testimony from Watt and OC-1, would have been key evidence at Khadr’s Guantanamo trial, which was halted when the Pentagon offered him a plea deal.

A condition of the deal was that Khadr confess to killing Speer, which he did during an emotional 2010 hearing at Guantanamo where Speer’s widow Tabitha was present. Once released, Khadr did not deny throwing the grenade as his lawyers have insisted.

He said he simply does not know and hopes he didn’t."

Khadr probably didn't kill anyone. 

He confessed.

I count you among the people who lend credibility to the testimony of Lev Parnas who is also testifying with the carrot of reduced sentencing hanging above his head. So what's your plan? Should coerced testimony be allowed or not?

And like you said, Khadr never said that he didn't do it. Guilty enough, when you consider that he made a bomb-making video for terrorists.

[dialamah]

12 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

He confessed.

Some day, I hope you have the experience of yourself or a loved one accused of a crime of which you are innocent, and the pressure brought to bear by the criminal justice system to "confess" in return for a reduced sentence, an end to the financial cost, an end to the fear and uncertainty.  Such an experience might have you questioning "confessions" obtained through plea deals. Most guilty verdicts in this country and the States are arrived at through plea deals, not by examining the evidence through a trial.  

12 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

count you among the people who lend credibility to the testimony of Lev Parnas

Yes, you should assume I do, instead of asking me.  If you did ask me, and God forbid you do that in case you discover I'm not a paper cutout of some idea you have in your head, you'd find out I don't have an opinion either way because I don't know enough about him, or his situation.  Not to mention I think this whole impeachment thing is a waste of time; it will accomplish nothing but more partisanship regardless of its ultimate outcome.

12 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Should coerced testimony be allowed or not?

Coercion should never be a feature of our justice system, imo.  Plea deals, and the way they're arrived at, let guilty people go free and make criminals out of innocent people.

I think you condemn Khadr because you like easy, black and white answers, certainty, the assurance that you and yours are better than "they" are - whoever "they" might be.  "They" are expendable, barely human, certainly not entitled to  basic human rights, presumption of innocence or due process.  People like that abound in "shithole" countries and they are the ones holding power, imposing their laws as convenient, using torture to coerce confessions, making scapegoats of innocent people.  In Canada, at least, we still respect our own laws and are willing to make reparation when we realize we screwed up.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Some day, I hope you have the experience of yourself or a loved one accused of a crime of which you are innocent, and the pressure brought to bear by the criminal justice system to "confess" in return for a reduced sentence, an end to the financial cost, an end to the fear and uncertainty.  Such an experience might have you questioning "confessions" obtained through plea deals. Most guilty verdicts in this country and the States are arrived at through plea deals, not by examining the evidence through a trial.  

He has never denied that he killed that man. 

Is that because he wants the notoriety? 

Can't have sympathy for him being considered guilty if he won't deny it. And he is a terrorist.

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Yes, you should assume I do, instead of asking me.  If you did ask me, and God forbid you do that in case you discover I'm not a paper cutout of some idea you have in your head, you'd find out I don't have an opinion either way because I don't know enough about him, or his situation.  Not to mention I think this whole impeachment thing is a waste of time; it will accomplish nothing but more partisanship regardless of its ultimate outcome.

Coercion should never be a feature of our justice system, imo.  Plea deals, and the way they're arrived at, let guilty people go free and make criminals out of innocent people.

Yay! We finally agree on one thing. FWIW I also think it's a joke that the first person to testify, and rat out his accomplices, always gets the smallest sentence, even if they're the guiltiest. I call that "winning the rat race".

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I think you condemn Khadr because you like easy, black and white answers, certainty, the assurance that you and yours are better than "they" are - whoever "they" might be.  "They" are expendable, barely human, certainly not entitled to  basic human rights, presumption of innocence or due process.  People like that abound in "shithole" countries and they are the ones holding power, imposing their laws as convenient, using torture to coerce confessions, making scapegoats of innocent people.  In Canada, at least, we still respect our own laws and are willing to make reparation when we realize we screwed up.

I do it because he is a terrorist. He was raised to be a terrorist, the evidence that he was a terrorist is there in his bomb-making videos, and he has never publicly denounced that which made him a terrorist. Guilty is guilty, period. I'm no easier on any other criminals than I am on Khadr. You'll find the same thing about conservatives across the board.

[eyeball]

On 1/20/2020 at 9:31 AM, WestCanMan said:

I do it because he is a terrorist. He was raised to be a terrorist, the evidence that he was a terrorist is there in his bomb-making videos, and he has never publicly denounced that which made him a terrorist. Guilty is guilty, period. I'm no easier on any other criminals than I am on Khadr. You'll find the same thing about conservatives across the board.

It's really too bad Trudeau ponied up the way he did it would have been a lot nicer to see a far more punishing settlement awarded by the court. 10.5 million merely compensated Khadr without teaching Canada any kind of lesson.

[WestCanMan]

5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It's really too bad Trudeau ponied up the way he did it would have been a lot nicer to see a far more punishing settlement awarded by the court. 10.5 million merely compensated Khadr without teaching Canada any kind of lesson.

The only lesson learned was how much of an idiot Trudeau is. 

[eyeball]

29 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The only lesson learned was how much of an idiot Trudeau is. 

He could still think circles around you. Clearly he saved Canada's taxpayers millions by settling out of court. 

[Army Guy]

On 1/18/2020 at 10:01 PM, eyeball said:

What court of law was it that determined that again? Oh right, George Bush's bogus military commissions that the Supreme Court said were unlawful and in violation of the Geneva Convention.

 

 

As I said in another thread when I think about how right-wing conservatives position themselves and their political parties as the champions of law and order your jokes about Islam being the religion of peace come to mind.

 

Is it because you don't give a shit or don't recall the letter that UN experts on the Geneva Convention in general and Child Soldiers in particular wrote warning Canada and the US they were even more wrong in the case of Omar Khadr.

It sickens me to think Canada sends people like you to represent us on battlefields on the other side of the world.

The Geneva Convention cares. I thought you guys swore a bunch of magic words that committed you to caring as well before going off and killing people.   

perhaps you can explain, how young Khadr was convicted of murder and then sentenced, and after sentencing was placed in a federal prison to start serving his time, and once he was transferred to Canada he was once again placed in prison....the reason I asked is your quoting that the US supreme court had said they were unlawful, and yet they let the sentence of murder stand....or maybe it was because Omar was a terrorist and could be sentenced by a military court, which by the way is where all war criminals are charged, you still remember Nuremburg, Germany do you not.... 

This was not a UN trail, this was a US military trail and was to uphold US law, within the confines' of those laws he was determined to be a terrorist, not a child soldier, the UN did not have a say in US military law...And if you had read the child soldier act it does not say that every child is immune to criminal proceedings, it does state criminal charges should be a last resort...but NO where does it state that all children have a get out of jail card...

It sickens me you have no idea what your talking about, it also sickens me that you can sit there and judge me without even knowing what our nations soldiers even did in Afghanistan on your behalf...it sickens me that you have no idea on how brutal the Taliban was towards it's people and yet here you sit whining about how one of them was abused...

The Geneva convention only applies to nations that have signed on to it, the Taliban or more to the point terrorist around the world have not signed on to it, there fore it does not apply to them, there are only a few paras within the convention that are there for people like Omar or terrorists, That they must be treated with fairly. and with respect, He got treated far better than say the dip shit that brought over his pregnant wife to Afghanistan to go hiking during the conflict, and was held by Taliban for 5 years.  

That oath I swore to was to the Queen, and I followed her and the Geneva convention rules to the tee, and within those rules we sent as many terrorist to Allah as we could, seems your nation is pretty good at doing just that, creating a shortage of virgins there for a while......all in your name eyeball,  but you must be some kind of naïve if you think that every one on the battle field follows what few rules there are laid out within the convention to guide soldiers on how to kill each other...but then again your an expert, you know all of that...I'm sure cutting off little girls hands for going to school is in there some where, or skinning a old man alive , then leaving him bake in the morning sun has got to be covered in those conventions as well, what about stoning young women because there husbands committed adultery...These are Omar's people, these are the people he vowed to protect,  instead we award them 10 million dollars, and say sorry.... what should have happened was CBC do a documentary on the Taliban's crimes....and let Canadians decide if we should have sent him and his family back to Afghanistan to be tried for their crimes...They were all terrorists, all of them , what was it that Gen Hillier called them, oh yes Scumbags.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Army Guy

[WestCanMan]

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

He could still think circles around you. Clearly he saved Canada's taxpayers millions by settling out of court. 

Now you're just trolling because you know how stupid of a comment that is.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

perhaps you can explain, how young Khadr was convicted of murder and then sentenced, and after sentencing was placed in a federal prison to start serving his time, and once he was transferred to Canada he was once again placed in prison...

My guess is that the most of the politicians and in his world were complete assholes with no regard for the Geneva Conventions.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Now you're just trolling because you know how stupid of a comment that is.

Presumably you know what happened and have evidence to substantiate what you know. I've been under the impression the detailed reason was discussed in secret leaving us to speculate.

[WestCanMan]

26 minutes ago, eyeball said:

My guess is that the most of the politicians and in his world were complete assholes with no regard for the Geneva Conventions.

Lol. You're talking about a terrorist who put bomb-making videos on the internet to help other terrorists kill people, and it's the other people in the equation who are the assholes with no regard for the Geneva Conventions....

It takes a special kind of stupid... 

[WestCanMan]

Just now, eyeball said:

Presumably you know what happened and have evidence to substantiate what you know. I've been under the impression the detailed reason was discussed in secret leaving us to speculate.

Khadr was a terrorist with bomb-making videos on the internet, he was part of an illegal attack that killed an American soldier who was in uniform (and deserving the protection of the Geneva Conventions), Khadr pleaded guilty to killing the American and has never denied that he did it. 

None of that is disputed. It's all documented fact.

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Lol. You're talking about a terrorist who put bomb-making videos on the internet to help other terrorists kill people, and it's the other people in the equation who are the assholes with no regard for the Geneva Conventions....

It takes a special kind of stupid... 

No I'm talking about a child soldier whose rights were ignored by people with no regard for the Geneva Conventions. 

That takes a special kind of asshole.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Khadr was a terrorist with bomb-making videos on the internet, he was part of an illegal attack that killed an American soldier who was in uniform (and deserving the protection of the Geneva Conventions), Khadr pleaded guilty to killing the American and has never denied that he did it. 

None of that is disputed. It's all documented fact.

The only thing that was really disputed is whether he was a child under Geneva Convention protection.

Presumably the advise Trudeau was given is that he was or should have been. Hence the out of court settlement.

[Nefarious Banana]

37 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Khadr was a terrorist with bomb-making videos on the internet, he was part of an illegal attack that killed an American soldier who was in uniform (and deserving the protection of the Geneva Conventions), Khadr pleaded guilty to killing the American and has never denied that he did it. 

He should have been left to the Americans. His crime was against an American. Trudeau is the real criminal here.

[eyeball]

21 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

He should have been left to the Americans. His crime was against an American. Trudeau is the real criminal here.

We did leave him there, that's what got us into trouble.

Interesting contrast with the Meng Wanzhou case.

Edited January 22, 2020 by eyeball

[Nefarious Banana]

13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

We did leave him there, that's what got us into trouble.

The trouble was what Trudeau inflicted on the Canadian taxpayer by bringing that criminal back here.  Spin and deflect that any way you like.  He should be in an American prison serving time for a crime against America.  Are you a part-time drama teacher ?

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

The trouble was what Trudeau inflicted on the Canadian taxpayer by bringing that criminal back here.  Spin and deflect that any way you like.  He should be in an American prison serving time for a crime against America.  Are you a part-time drama teacher ?

No. What spin or deflection are you talking about and what does my occupation have to do with anything?

Must be terrible to realize that people who thought Khadr was mistreated now feel a sense of vindication.

Harper tried his hardest to be an asshole about it and even he failed so... you'l just have to get over it or keep choking on it I guess.

Now I'm trolling. 

 

 

[dialamah]

10 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

The trouble was what Trudeau inflicted on the Canadian taxpayer by bringing that criminal back here.  Spin and deflect that any way you like.  He should be in an American prison serving time for a crime against America.  Are you a part-time drama teacher ?

Trudeau didn't "bring him back"; he returned to Canada in 2012, under the Conservatives.  Since you apparently have no clue what the situation around Khadr was, here's a link that lays out a timeline and some relevant facts.  

[Shady]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No. What spin or deflection are you talking about and what does my occupation have to do with anything?

Must be terrible to realize that people who thought Khadr was mistreated now feel a sense of vindication.

Harper tried his hardest to be an asshole about it and even he failed so... you'l just have to get over it or keep choking on it I guess.

Now I'm trolling. 

 

 

Khadr is human garbage.