The US cultural divide

[Cartman]

I would like to know how those (right and left) who experienced the 1960's feel about the so-called cultural divide in the US right now. Is this just BS reporting by the US media, or is there substance to this suggestion? If you listen to the media and pundits long enough on both sides, it sounds as though we have returned to the 1960's or early 1970's. The urban "hippies" and the rural "moral majority" are going after each other.

Thoughts?

[Guest eureka]

I don't see a return to the 60's or early 70's in the current climate. Those were hopeful years; peple were generally optimistic.

There was a division between two "value" sets but it did not have the visceral nature that is now with us - or with the US more accurately. Radical Christianity was not that big a part of American life. Could, say, a film like Elmer Gantry be made today?

Liberalism and Social justice were the dominant ideals of the day and even Conservative followers shared a considerable part of these. Things began to change after theoil crisis in 1973/4 and a hardening of the Right set in that dominated the late 70's and eighties.

Fear, greed and selfishness took over.

[August1991]

I'm too young to know first hand but I think that it was worse in the 1960s. Think of Chicago 1968. Kent State 1970 (National Guard shot and killed four students).

To navigate those waters, Nixon was a real political player.

One big, big difference was Soviet Russia. Then, many young Americans found socialism attractive. Today, few young Americans find Islam attractive.

The current "divide" is just normal, partisan, American politics. Clinton suffered as much and the next person, after Bush, will too. (Remember Hillary's "vast right-wing conspiracy" comment? Ken Starr? Clinton's impeachment?)

[Cartman]

The current "divide" is just normal, partisan, American politics.

Hmmm...maybe you are correct, but look at how many Americans voted this time. There seemed to be much more interest this time around. I was amazed at the votes to outlaw gay marriage.

Some time ago this year, I listened to a church leader who said that gay civil marriage thwarted the church's power over marriage. He was not just concerned about being forced to marry gays in the church, but worried about how their authority was being reduced over civil marriage. I was outraged that a religious leader (Catholic I believe) would claim any authority over my marriage.

Apart from the economic, it seems to me that there is a real resurgence of right wing cultural "values" that are really at odds with liberal "values". When Rev. Fallwell seems mainstream, something has changed. Maybe he will have his way and force a vote on outlawing gay Teletubbies.

[Chloe]

People at like its impossible for a Republican party to win these days. The cultural divide is there, but its shouldn't be this new phenomaena that people are making it out to be. This time its the Republican's season just like a couple of years past it was the democrats' season to shine. it will eventually turm around be the democrats all the way. But when that happens, are people going to say "Finally we're back to normal" What's normal is regular shift in power that's what has happened in the past, the present isn't any different. People really need to stop acting like right winged people are the one's out of touch with the rest of the word. They have they're own convictions, and it would be appauling if left winged people said right winged counterparts are primitive.

[Guest eureka]

There are little commented on facets of the election that are relevant to the divide and it is disturbing. The increased turnout is not really that much of an increase. The proportion of the population participating is quite low.

It is said that there were 6million more of the "Religious Right" who voted this time. Thus, the Bush camp got out its radical vote.

There was also no great increase in the youth vote. I heard one commentator saying that in the 18-24 age group only 10% voted. If this is correct, and I have no reason to disbelieve it, then young America is still alienated from the political system and still feels powerless to make any difference.

That vote, if more representative of the group, would have gone, largely, to the Democrats. It seems to me that terror and religious or family "values" won the election but still represent a minority view and the voting patterm does indicate a deeply entrenched division between two "warring" camps.

[August1991]

I was amazed at the votes to outlaw gay marriage.

I was rather amazed at the level of support these proposals received. I think the proposals received around 30% to 40%.

When a small minority asks for something, the majority is usually oblivious.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think these proposals concerned the use of the word "marriage". These proposals were not about "civil unions".

I personally have no objection to two people of the same sex using the word "marriage" but I can understand why some people might object. (I suspect the words "husband" and "wife" are safe from usurp.)

Apart from the economic, it seems to me that there is a real resurgence of right wing cultural "values" that are really at odds with liberal "values". When Rev. Fallwell seems mainstream, something has changed.

I don't think so, really. Look where Bush got his support. The hicks. These people have always been suspicious of the sophisticates on either coast.

I don't mean that Bush only got his support there. I'm sure many gays voted for Bush and many Ivy-league professors too.

But the US has always had a strong strain of Protestant, populism. Lewis wrote Elmer Gantry in 1927.

Maybe he will have his way and force a vote on outlawing gay Teletubbies.

Do Teletubbies have gender issues too?

[Cartman]

yup.

http://www.ishipress.com/macgregor.htm

http://www.falwell.com/?a=p&content=1077559813

[The Terrible Sweal]

Visit JESUSLAND

[Cartman]

Hey Terrible Sweal, wanna sign the Moral Majority's petition about gay marriage and sodomy in the US and Canada? Check it out.

http://www.onemanonewoman.com/

The petition states:

I am greatly concerned over recent Canadian and American liberal court rulings in favor of homosexual "marriage", the legalization of sodomy, and other actions damaging the traditional family.

[MapleBear]

It isn't just hippies versus rednecks. Hippies have been replaced by a much more diverse coalition who ultimately oppose corporate corruption, which is defended, intentionally or not, by right-wingers.

To put it in perspective perspective, modern American history (which I say began with the Civil War) has been one long struggle between corporations and we the people, marked by two spectacularly successful rebellions. The first was the socialist movement of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The second was the "Flower Power" rebellion of the 1960s and 70s.

Of course, right-wingers would say all these people were losers. More than losers, they were evil. They were dirty hippies, godless socialists and on and on.

At first glance, the loser part might seem true. Why did the socialist movement vanish?

I think it was a victim of its own success. Though socialists never succeeded in wresting power from corporate America, they did give Americans laws protecting workers, child protection laws, the 40-hour work week, overtime pay, labor unions and on and on. Anyone who says these are bad is a godless Communist, figuratively speaking.

Why should weary protesters continue protesting if they finally had decent wages and some free time to spend with their families? Their hard fought victories were followed by the Great Depression and World War II, titanic events that diverted attention from labor issues. Moreover, World War II stimulated the economy.

After the war, Americans enjoyed the fruits of their victory AND the gains made by socialists, even if they were forgotten.

But America's socialist roots were rediscovered in the 1960s. The people who are lumped together as hippies may have been painted as drug-addicted losers, but they launched civil rights reforms and the environmental movement. When the war in Vietnam ended, what was left to protest? They had won, even if they never achieved a total victory.

While licking its wounds, corporate America studied these grassroots victories, vowing they would never happen again. They immediately started working towards their own victory, adpating new tactics, including computers and the most sophisticated propaganda and manipulation the world has ever seen.

Their propaganda includes demonizing socialism. Thus, the term "godless socialist," even though people attend church in Sweden.

George Bush, Inc.'s greatest fear is that U.S. citizens will once again rediscover their socialist roots and rise up in a unified resistance. Even worse, what if they join hands with comrades around the world? Latin America is leaning towards socialism, and Spain now has a socialist government. The people have the power - they merely lack the will.

[Tawasakm]

You know I think that questions like this are alot easier to answer in Australia. Its crystal clear who the majority voted for since voting is compulsory for everyone 18 and over.

There seems to be a confused situation in the US about what the majority might really be since certain demographics are under-represented in voting.

I personally believe in compulsory voting - it actually helps democracy. Its definitely the voice of the people and nobody (well fewer people) become disenfranchised with the system - they know they are a contributing part of it - their voice and that of every demographic (excluding direct input from under 18's) is being heard. Last election I did not personally encounter any youth apathy concerning the election.

[daniel]

Hey Terrible Sweal, wanna sign the Moral Majority's petition about gay marriage and sodomy in the US and Canada? Check it out.

http://www.onemanonewoman.com/

The petition states:

I am greatly concerned over recent Canadian and American liberal court rulings in favor of homosexual "marriage", the legalization of sodomy, and other actions damaging the traditional family.

Do they have a petition against polygamy?