cybercoma Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 The intent doesn't matter. Using derogatory remarks about gay people is an attack on gay people, whether intended that way or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Just an attempt to be offensive to anyone. It only makes sense as a pejorative if you assume gays are somehow lesser people. People online are jerk full stop. I don't think they spend too much time to discriminate. See how overweight people are treated online. This debate is like the whole Hate crime debate. Are assholes somehow worse if they're being assholes to an identifiable minority. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Depending where you go online. I believe the multitude of social media sites and such are a problem that contribute to the idiocy that you speak of. I simply do not experience any of the crap that is talked about here. Between me and my friends we do trash talk each other, but it's all in good fun. Where is this happening? Console gamers? Gamers under a certain age? Are you a woman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Did you not actually read the Pew study you cited earlier? Men and women aren't treated the same online at all. Men get insulted, women get sexual comments/threats/stalked. This shouldn't even require a study it's so bleeding obvious to anyone who has spent five minutes online. Look I don't deny that there are some differences in how men and women are treated online, but some people try to portray all of their online harassment as due to misogyny and that men don't experience; that is what I disagree with. Also, a lot of the 'sexual' harassment might be plain trolling, where the troll doesn't really care about your gender/sex but uses whatever physical characteristic you may have to annoy you. Where is this happening? Console gamers? Gamers under a certain age? I hear FPS gamers are pretty bad. But I don't play FPS so maybe it is just a stereotype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Look I don't deny that there are some differences in how men and women are treated online, but some people try to portray all of their online harassment as due to misogyny and that men don't experience; that is what I disagree with. Who, specifically, does this? Also, a lot of the 'sexual' harassment might be plain trolling, where the troll doesn't really care about your gender/sex but uses whatever physical characteristic you may have to annoy you. So it's not sexual harassment, it's harassment based on sex. OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Who, specifically, does this? Anita Sarkeesian and her SJW allies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Anita Sarkeesian and her SJW allies. Prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleClassCentrist Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Anita Sarkeesian isn't a credible or valuable source of gender equity information. No one sane person would use her as such. She has publicly said that she believes that it is impossible for women to be sexist against men. Because men don't experience sexism... That concept is not equitable, and lacks the level of equality required to be a true feminist. Think of her like an extreme Fox News broadcaster who just shouts "I'm right, don't you know that I'm right. Because you are wrong" while figuratively beating their chest to exert dominance over the opponents until they give up. Her presence has a negative effect on equality because her opinions directly guided by her ulterior motives. Edited May 13, 2015 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleClassCentrist Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Are you a woman? I've role played female characters and let people believe that I was female. My character name could go both ways. I did not feel like I experienced such gender based harassment. I did receive a lot of free stuff. You can't simply discredit his comment because he is male. That would be sexist. I have experienced women being hit on in Team Speak but, they played into it and even set up a time to meet while I was trying to get both of them to shut up. I'm sure it happens when they don't want it to but, if women are going to let it be successful some times, they can't really say that it should never happen. Unsolicited nude/genital pics are ridiculous and need to be dealt with as a form of sexual harassment regardless of gender. The Gamers I know would love for more girls to play games with them. It would be a perfect relationship to buy a new game like Final Fantasy, Black Ops or some other game and just sit down with their SO playing all day on release day. I really do believe that the majority of people harassing women online are the group of people with issues, whether they've been physically or sexually abused by a mother, aunt or grandma or they have some mental disability. Edited May 13, 2015 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Are you a woman? Fine, I've not WITNESSED that kind of stuff via my experiences with online gaming (aka females feeling victimized). Better? Not only that, some of the female gamers I run with will not only banter back, but they will push back to the point where you would scamper off crying to your mom. They are ruthless. Edited May 13, 2015 by GostHacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Anita Sarkeesian isn't a credible or valuable source of gender equity information.Anita Sarkeesian is not a credible source of her own experiences? That's rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Anita Sarkeesian isn't a credible or valuable source of gender equity information. No one sane person would use her as such. She has publicly said that she believes that it is impossible for women to be sexist against men. Because men don't experience sexism... That concept is not equitable, and lacks the level of equality required to be a true feminist. Men don't experience sexism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleClassCentrist Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Men don't experience sexism. You have proven that you don't believe in equality. Sexism isn't some magical affliction that targets only one gender. For example, Men in teaching experience sexism in their health benefits and working conditions as the profession is overwhelmingly female. Men wishing to work with young children experience sexism because they are stigmatized as being a creep or pedophile and not hired. Sexism. A 40 year old male interested in making Rainbow Loom bracelets is creepy. A 40 year old woman isn't. Sexism. I spoke with a young girl the other day that really didn't understand why a young boy was upset when he slapped and grabbed his butt. That is sexism. I told her to imagine the role reversal if some guy just slapped and grabbed her butt. I think she understood, but the fact that she felt her actions were perfectly acceptable at first is an example of sexism. The idea that women have the power to treat males as sexual objects without repercussion is the exact idea of sexism. Boys are supposed to like sexual attention all the time no? Edited May 13, 2015 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleClassCentrist Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Anita Sarkeesian is not a credible source of her own experiences? That's rich. Anita Sarkeesian is largely regarded by true feminists, and equal rights supporters like myself, as part of the problem. Feminism doesn't need more talking heads creating drama by insulting one gender over and over. Nothing Anita has said shows that she truly believes in equality of genders. Feminism has this identity problem because it is a gender biased term. It will continue to have this identity problem as fringe talking heads like Anita Sarkeesian treat feminism as "issues that women care about, for the sake of pushing women forward regardless of true equality". Edited May 13, 2015 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 You have proven that you don't believe in equality. Sexism isn't some magical affliction that targets only one gender. For example, Men in teaching experience sexism in their health benefits and working conditions as the profession is overwhelmingly female. Men wishing to work with young children experience sexism because they are stigmatized as being a creep or pedophile and not hired. Sexism. A 40 year old male interested in making Rainbow Loom bracelets is creepy. A 40 year old woman isn't. Sexism. I spoke with a young girl the other day that really didn't understand why a young boy was upset when he slapped and grabbed his butt. That is sexism. I told her to imagine the role reversal if some guy just slapped and grabbed her butt. I think she understood, but the fact that she felt her actions were perfectly acceptable at first is an example of sexism. The idea that women have the power to treat males as sexual objects without repercussion is the exact idea of sexism. Boys are supposed to like sexual attention all the time no? Sexism and sexual discrimination aren't the same thing. Sexism is a system that reinforces the supremacy of one gender (typically male) over another. Your examples support this because each involves men being punished for dabbling in pursuits that are coded as "female" and thus unsuitable for men. So when men "experience sexism" it's often because of the existence of retrograde ideas about gender roles that devalue women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleClassCentrist Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Sexism and sexual discrimination aren't the same thing. Sexism is a system that reinforces the supremacy of one gender (typically male) over another. Your examples support this because each involves men being punished for dabbling in pursuits that are coded as "female" and thus unsuitable for men. So when men "experience sexism" it's often because of the existence of retrograde ideas about gender roles that devalue women. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sexism Don't try to change definitions to suit the anti-male agenda of fringe feminists. The definition makes note that it has traditionally occurred against females, which is an indisputable fact of history. We have come a long way in North America. As the gap has been closed, we are being encouraged to ignore that these issues also affect men. It's easier to push an agenda when you continue to play only one gender as a potential victim. That is not the reality... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sexism Don't try to change definitions to suit the anti-male agenda of fringe feminists. So. Many. Eyerolls. The definition makes note that it has traditionally occurred against females, which is an indisputable fact of history. We have come a long way in North America. As the gap has been closed, we are being encouraged to ignore that these issues also affect men. It's easier to push an agenda when you continue to play only one gender as a potential victim. That is not the reality... Again, the issues that effect men tend to centre around them straying from their prescribed gender roles and into "female" territory. So the sexism that men experience is still about women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Anita Sarkeesian is largely regarded by true feminists, and equal rights supporters like myself, as part of the problem.No True Scotsman fallacy, eh? This has been a popular choice lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 So. Many. Eyerolls.What? You don't accept dictionary.com as a source for complex social theories? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleClassCentrist Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Again, the issues that effect men tend to centre around them straying from their prescribed gender roles and into "female" territory. So the sexism that men experience is still about women. That is really stretching a concept to meet your own victim complex. You aren't helping equality by ignoring one gender, or by making a contrived attempt at linking all problems to one gender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 That is really stretching a concept to meet your own victim complex. I'm not a woman tho You aren't helping equality by ignoring one gender, or by making a contrived attempt at linking all problems to one gender. Not doing either of those things. Try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 I don't want to get too involved here because I don't know and care even less about the gaming community. However, anyone who believes that feminism is the fight for "equality for all", is truly naive. As MCC said, the word feminism itself is a gender bias term - that should be the first clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) Sexism and sexual discrimination aren't the same thing. Sexism is a system that reinforces the supremacy of one gender (typically male) over another. Men don't experience sexism. Yes, this parallels your similar statements in other threads about how white people cannot experience racism. The problem is that you wanting to use a definition of sexism and racism that makes this true instantly alienates everyone that isn't already completely indoctrinated with the "social justice" agenda. To any normal person, sexism means discrimination based on sex and racism means discrimination based on race. As soon as you veer into ideas about "systemic power imbalance" or some such, the only people that are gonna agree with your definitions are social justice activists. To have any kind of productive discussion, it's important everyone is on the same page regarding definitions of terms they are using. And this is unfortunately what the social justice movement aims to subvert.. by arbitrarily redefining terms within its circles and then lashing out at those who do not agree. Muddying the waters about what words mean so that people can't even talk to each other productively only increases polarization on these issues, rather than moving society forward. Edited May 14, 2015 by Bonam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 A similar thing has been done with the word genocide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) A similar thing has been done with the word genocide. And many other words besides. A few examples of words that have been similarly twisted, by one activist group or another: - privilege (to mean having the same rights and opportunities an average member of the population has) - war crimes (to mean any act of any military that the speaker does not like) - human rights (to mean anything that the speaker thinks people should be entitled to, regardless of cost or effort required on the part of others) - atheism (to mean a religion in itself, rather than a simple lack of belief in deities) - fascism/tyranny/dictatorship (to mean any government policy/action that the speaker doesn't agree with) - slavery (to mean voluntary work for an agreed upon wage) Edited May 14, 2015 by Bonam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.