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Sexual Misconduct In Canadian Military


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About one year ago, General Lawson assured Canadians that there was no problem with the interaction between sexes in the military. The armed forces were forced into accepting a third party to investigate the atmosphere and nature of these relationships. Now, in an epiphany of enlightenment, Lawson has admitted that there is a problem:

That degree of incompetence should have seen him sacked.

And who the hell does he think he is? The military, including this clueless individual, are employees.

A dandy example of the oxymoron, military intelligence.

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First of all my comment was mostly directed at Lawson. It would likely be pretty naive to think that all of those things pointed out in this current report only occurred in the last 12 months. Of course I am not tarring everyone with the same brush, but there is a problem needing to be fixed. Yes I have served.

One does not become the CDS by having a low IQ, in fact one does not compete in today's military unless you have a strong educational back ground, with in the rifle company I served with 110 guys , 38 had degrees, 15 of those had their masters, and that was a bunch of infantry guys. Again your spewing fiction as fact.

You said you served have you witnessed any of this behaviour being talked about. And if so what did you do about it.

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One does not become the CDS by having a low IQ, in fact one does not compete in today's military unless you have a strong educational back ground, with in the rifle company I served with 110 guys , 38 had degrees, 15 of those had their masters, and that was a bunch of infantry guys. Again your spewing fiction as fact.

You said you served have you witnessed any of this behaviour being talked about. And if so what did you do about it.

I never witnessed anything serious personally. When it did happen it came to my attention only after the MPs were on it.

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I believe that the strength of the military is the rigid structure and the chain of command. The weakness of the military is the rigid structure and the chain of command. When you have an organization whose role is to engage in war, there is no room or time for creating committees to investigate ... or spend too much time on human resources. The restrictions that are placed on other government and private organizations are not present.

I believe that the new military is very different from the old. Technology is creating a shift from brawn to brain where physical ability is becoming less and less a priority. I believe that trend to continue with robotics becoming more prevalent on the battlefield. The military has always been the last to implement societal changes - from allowing women to participate to the role of women in combat (and submarines). The military has yet to initiate and facilitate a policy towards the LGBT community.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a military career. It requires a specific philosophy and acceptance of the chain of command system. It offers a diverse career and good pension for those who chose that lifestyle. I do not think that it has to be defended as a major requirement for any country.

My observations are from a third party, external report that pointed out deficiencies in current process and suggestions as how to correct them. It requires reform in the area of how it deals with sexual misconduct. One can come to no other conclusion from the report.

As to behaviour, I have spent evenings in the officers mess in the armories and enjoyed the rhetoric after the toast to the Queen and the cigars and brandy have been served. My observation is that it is still an old boys club. It will take a while for those who enlisted many, many years ago to understand the changes now required in society.

I think one has no need to defend it. Like other changes in the past, the military will be dragged into compliance and make it stronger for the effort.

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I never witnessed anything serious personally. When it did happen it came to my attention only after the MPs were on it.

How many military members did you interact with ? How long did you serve? I know the military community is pretty small, and rumours within it spread faster than a speeding bullet. If anything serious happened on any base it would be well known within days by everyone. And yet this report dictates there is something seriously wrong.

But according to your personal experiences, you did not experience anything serious. I served for 34 years, including many tours overseas, and not once did I hear off any DND member sexual assaulting another member. While in KAF,Afghanistan our women were told to stay out of certain areas of the camp, I say camp, but it was a small city of over 75,000, with some nations not having the same moral values as most Canadians. Yes there was plenty of romances going on, romances that crossed the rank barrier, and those members were charged and sent home, including one commander, even a battle group RSM. But these were consenting adults, nothing was forced or an abuse of authority.

I will say however the use of colourful language is rampant, bravado is common place, but then again, and drinking although still , they for the most part is not to excess.

What scares most military members now, is what DND and the government will mandate as corrective action. Once again any action that prevents one serious sexual assault would be a great measure. But you and I know that DND does not do anything half way, it takes the extreme right or left.

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I'd hazard a guess that the Military would never have permitted someone like Jian Ghomeshi to prowl the bases like he did the hallways and sets at CBC - or like our Parliament and fail to have a process in place to handle the Liberal sexual harassment cases - and it seems that not a month goes by that we don't read about sexual harassment/assaults from Doctors and Dentists - and those are only the ones that make it to the media. The military is a unique environment - and the whole area of sexual integration requires constant awareness, strong management - and where required, serious consequences for offenders.....but let's not be so naive as to think that harassment and assaults don't occur regularly in other professions. Be careful what rocks you turn over - you might get a big surprise.

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I'd hazard a guess that the Military would never have permitted someone like Jian Ghomeshi to prowl the bases like he did the hallways and sets at CBC - or like our Parliament and fail to have a process in place to handle the Liberal sexual harassment cases - and it seems that not a month goes by that we don't read about sexual harassment/assaults from Doctors and Dentists - and those are only the ones that make it to the media. The military is a unique environment - and the whole area of sexual integration requires constant awareness, strong management - and where required, serious consequences for offenders.....but let's not be so naive as to think that harassment and assaults don't occur regularly in other professions. Be careful what rocks you turn over - you might get a big surprise.

I'd be more surprised if there weren't a hundred Ghomeshi's around in uniform. You couldn't really ask for a better environment for such a predator to thrive.

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I'd hazard a guess that the Military would never have permitted someone like Jian Ghomeshi to prowl the bases like he did the hallways and sets at CBC - or like our Parliament and fail to have a process in place to handle the Liberal sexual harassment cases - and it seems that not a month goes by that we don't read about sexual harassment/assaults from Doctors and Dentists - and those are only the ones that make it to the media. The military is a unique environment - and the whole area of sexual integration requires constant awareness, strong management - and where required, serious consequences for offenders.....but let's not be so naive as to think that harassment and assaults don't occur regularly in other professions. Be careful what rocks you turn over - you might get a big surprise.

The actual report seems to indicate otherwise.

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I'd hazard a guess that the Military would never have permitted someone like Jian Ghomeshi to prowl the bases like he did the hallways and sets at CBC -

Did Jian ever rape someone?

He certainly was a predator the likes the military should have seen but decided not to open their eyes.

Is the CBC or others in a place whereby it can be referred to by sexual assault is 'endemic' ? The Military has that problem .

In the late 90's it was a rape problem.

- and it seems that not a month goes by that we don't read about sexual harassment/assaults from Doctors and Dentists - and those are only the ones that make it to the media. The military is a unique environment - and the whole area of sexual integration requires constant awareness, strong management - and where required, serious consequences for offenders.....but let's not be so naive as to think that harassment and assaults don't occur regularly in other professions. Be careful what rocks you turn over - you might get a big surprise.

Seems as if this is a deflection , but why? Water is wet we know.

But if not, ok, thanks for reminding us that society has creeps in it.

Edited by Guyser2
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I'd hazard a guess that the Military would never have permitted someone like Jian Ghomeshi to prowl the bases like he did the hallways and sets at CBC - ... Be careful what rocks you turn over - you might get a big surprise.

Indeed, you might.

Do you think that folks who willingly engage in war crimes are really going to be much bothered by insignificant issues like this?

-----------------------

Sunday, December 20, 2009

Obama's Af-Pak War is Illegal

President Obama accepted the Nobel Peace Prize nine days after he announced he would send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan. His escalation of that war is not what the Nobel committee envisioned when it sought to encourage him to make peace, not war.

In 1945, in the wake of two wars that claimed millions of lives, the nations of the world created the United Nations system to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war. The UN Charter is based on the principles of international peace and security as well as the protection of human rights. But the United States, one of the founding members of the UN, has often flouted the commands of the charter, which is part of US law under the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution.

Although the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan was as illegal as the invasion of Iraq, many Americans saw it as a justifiable response to the attacks of September 11, 2001. The cover of Time magazine called it "The Right War." Obama campaigned on ending the Iraq war but escalating the war in Afghanistan. But a majority of Americans now oppose that war as well.

The UN Charter provides that all member states must settle their international disputes by peaceful means, and no nation can use military force except in self-defense or when authorized by the Security Council. After the 9/11 attacks, the council passed two resolutions, neither of which authorized the use of military force in Afghanistan.

Operation Enduring Freedom was not legitimate self-defense under the charter because the 9/11 attacks were crimes against humanity, not armed attacks by another country. Afghanistan did not attack the United States. In fact, 15 of the 19 hijackers hailed from Saudi Arabia. Furthermore, there was not an imminent threat of an armed attack on the United States after 9/11, or President Bush would not have waited three weeks before initiating his October 2001 bombing campaign. The necessity for self-defense must be instant, overwhelming, leaving no choice of means, and no moment for deliberation. This classic principle of self-defense in international law has been affirmed by the Nuremberg Tribunal and the UN General Assembly.

...

http://www.marjoriecohn.com/2009/12/obamas-af-pak-war-is-illegal.html?m=1

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These problems are found in every industry across the country, in our schools, in our towns , and cities...And yet we as Acadians are finger pionters, we have to have to have someone to blame. First it was the RCMP , and if you think they are fixed now, and have no problems your wrong, next will be DND.

So while we may enjoy a few drinks, chew on cigars, and have some colourful language I wonder where we got that from.

The military is a place that needs to be extra scrutinized above almost any other workplace in terms of protecting people from sexual misconduct. What other workplaces do you have a large number of young, aggressive, hyper-masculine men isolated from the opposite sex (besides other female soldiers) for long periods and put in situations of such extraordinary stress? The only more dangerous place (in terms of sex assault) I could think of for a woman would be in a prison. These young military guys are all ready to fuck but they can't. Get a group of them together and put a young, athletic woman in front of them and there's bound to be incidences.

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Big guy.

I'm having difficulties following your piont, about a ridgid chain of command structure, the fact that it is ridged would suggest that military rules and regulations are for everyone, no exceptions, those found guilty of any offence should be charged and subjected to the code of conduct.

Military has more committees than you can shake a stick at, you name a topic and there are committees all up and down the chain of command.in fact perhaps to many committees..as it is very time and manpower consuming

DND follows every restriction that is placed on all other governmental organizations, I' d be curious to know which ones that DND is not following.... In fact most other depts or private instructions are required to follow provincial, and federal laws, and perhaps a few company policies, where DND has binders full of rules and regulations that further restrict conduct, and actions.

As for DND being the last to come in line with the rest of the country, in some instances I would agree with you. However there are policitical considerations as well, A majority of Canadians were not ready to see women in combat or submarines each with there own separate set of challenges. The military has a policy on LGBT, they are to be treated as they treat everyone else. This policy has been there for years. If you are talking about a separate policy which addresses LGBT then you' d be right.

I've read the report , and while it is a serious issue , I have a problem with believing that it is as bad as the report say it is. I think there is for the lack of better words a witch hunt, ...I' d also be curious to there definition of sexual assault and what does it include, so it could be prepared to DND definition.

So while I firmly believe that one sexual assault case is to many, and that all involved should be punished to the full extent of federal and DND laws and regulations I don,t see it as a major melt down as the report suggests or leads Canadians to believe.

And your right DND will change, no matter what the outcome of the report states....but DND is not the last instution to have this problem , it is a problem in every industry, it's in our school systems, universities and collages have the highest sexual assaults recorded , not that this is a deflection but a question to why is DND chosen to make an example of. When there is much larger targets out there.

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I believe that the strength of the military is the rigid structure and the chain of command. The weakness of the military is the rigid structure and the chain of command. When you have an organization whose role is to engage in war, there is no room or time for creating committees to investigate ... or spend too much time on human resources. The restrictions that are placed on other government and private organizations are not present.

I largely agree, but drumhead courts have been present long before there was a Canada, let alone Canadian Forces......inversely, large committees in all post McNamara forces are commonplace, presided over by the good idea fairy.

I believe that the new military is very different from the old. Technology is creating a shift from brawn to brain where physical ability is becoming less and less a priority. I believe that trend to continue with robotics becoming more prevalent on the battlefield. The military has always been the last to implement societal changes - from allowing women to participate to the role of women in combat (and submarines). The military has yet to initiate and facilitate a policy towards the LGBT community.

Yes and no, in most trades, brawn and brain are a requirement.......with the majority of Commissioned positions (Officers) requiring a degree in either a science/engineering related field and the majority of the non-commissioned trades (enlisted/NCOs) requiring a two year technical diploma and or trade specific training......there are very few positions within the military that don't require a post-secondary education to some degree.

Women/LGBT currently serve in all positions of the Canadian Forces.......submarines were a differing circumstance, based more on the constrained environment and lack of room to make gender specific heads (toilets/showers) and bunking/quarters.

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The military is a place that needs to be extra scrutinized above almost any other workplace in terms of protecting people from sexual misconduct. What other workplaces do you have a large number of young, aggressive, hyper-masculine men isolated from the opposite sex (besides other female soldiers) for long periods and put in situations of such extraordinary stress? The only more dangerous place (in terms of sex assault) I could think of for a woman would be in a prison. These young military guys are all ready to fuck but they can't. Get a group of them together and put a young, athletic woman in front of them and there's bound to be incidences.

Can you remember collage or university.....just left home no parent controls, very little adult supervision....where the entire goal was to get laid. Have you checked the stats on sexual assaults in these education systems....Cruise ships, up north on the oil platforms....the military does not have the monopoly on dangerous places to work.

Men and women of the forces are governed by the same laws as you are, along with DND code of conduct and discipline, the same laws that prevent them from doing anything illiegal, the fear of getting punished....in most cases being forced out of the forces.....or the club as some have said it is a powerful motivator. Which keeps them in check, just remember to check the toilet seat before sitting down, you might get a sticky surprise.

Female soldiers for the most part are part of the machine, most are respected for their skills or job knowledge, sexually assaulting one would bring a collective punishment from the rest of your comrades. In KAF male soldiers would escort our own females in small groups ready to bring violence to any that tried any form of assault.... I guess my piont is nobody fucks with the team, or you get the horns. It all comes with being a professional soldier. Control were there is none, calm when there is none, it is part of what we do.

Your girl friend or wife would be safer with a bunch of horny Mary guys than any other group I know, the fact that my daughter now serves has got to say something about that trust.

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Somebody doesnt know the diff between the Canadian Military and the American one.

D'oh...

Normally the Canadian military hasn't followed número uno war criminal/terrorist nation, the USA. Sadly, it has been doing so of late.

The following is one of the results of cozying up to the top gangster.

Community of Latin American and Caribbean States

...

It consists of 33 sovereign countries in the Americas representing roughly 600 million people. Absent from the bloc are Canada and the United States, as well as the territories of France, the Netherlands, Denmark and the United Kingdom in the Americas.[7]

...

In an interview in February 2010, President Evo Morales of Bolivia said, "A union of Latin American countries is the weapon against imperialism. It is necessary to create a regional body that excludes the United States and Canada. ...Where there are U.S. military bases that do not respect democracy, where there is a political empire with his blackmailers, with its constraints, there is no development for that country, and especially there is no social peace and, therefore, it is the best time for prime ministers of Latin America and the Caribbean to gestate this great new organization without the United States to free our peoples in Latin America and the Caribbean."[10]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_of_Latin_American_and_Caribbean_States

Edited by Je suis Omar
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I've read the report , and while it is a serious issue , I have a problem with believing that it is as bad as the report say it is. I think there is for the lack of better words a witch hunt, ...I' d also be curious to there definition of sexual assault and what does it include, so it could be prepared to DND definition.

So while I firmly believe that one sexual assault case is to many, and that all involved should be punished to the full extent of federal and DND laws and regulations I don,t see it as a major melt down as the report suggests or leads Canadians to believe.

To clarify, its "sexual misconduct", which is inclusive of everything from foul language, rumor mongering/talking about another member in a sexual way or even having a Playboy pin-up displayed......and of course the actual report didn't suggest it to be a major problem, that was the CBC/Macleans hit-jobs prior to the reports release.

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I'd be more surprised if there weren't a hundred Ghomeshi's around in uniform. You couldn't really ask for a better environment for such a predator to thrive.

Ghomeshi was from Toronto was he not....that would explain a lot....no better enviroment than Toronto for any predator to thrive.

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Rape in the Military. That was the headline on a Macleans cover in 1998one of four cover stories that year stemming from a nine-month investigation into disturbing behaviour in the Canadian Forces. Now, 16 years later, Macleans and its sister publication, Lactualité, have come together to publish another months-long investigation into the sexual violence that still plagues our military. Lactualité reporters Noémi Mercier and Alec Castonguay talked to dozens of victims, attended court martials, culled statistics and documents under Access to Information, and visited bases across the country and Afghanistan. This story is the result of their investigation:

Lise Gauthier doesnt have enough fingers to count the number of times she was raped, assaulted or sexually harassed by fellow soldiers.

The 51-year-old, from Sherbrooke, Que., spent half her life in the Canadian Forces. When she signed up at 18, she was young and idealistic, and couldnt wait to get her hands on the engine of a fighter plane. For the next 25 years, she wore the blue uniform of the Royal Canadian Air Force proudly, like it was a second skin, convinced she was serving a greater cause.

Yet the whole time, she was actually waging a private war. And the battlefield was her own body.

I think about the attacks all the time, 24 hours a day. Theres no escape. I wish no one had to go through what I did. I wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy. You stop living. Youre in survival mode. The best you can do is breathe, she says, rocking herself in the solarium of the house she shares with her partner, her eyes welling with tears.

The first time it happened, Gauthier had been serving for barely a year. It was October 1982. A bus driver raped her in a bedroom on the Saint-Hubert military base. He grabbed her by the throat so hard it left fingerprints on her neck. She will never forget him whispering in her ear: If you talk to anyone about this, youre dead.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/our-militarys-disgrace/

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