Canadian Homeland Security

[Big Guy]

According to CSIS director Michel Coulombe, there are 80 individuals who have returned to Canada after travel abroad for a variety of suspected terrorism-related purposes.

This is a serious “threat” to Canadian security but it is not “imminent”.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/isis-threat-to-canada-not-imminent-but-real-csis-director-warns-1.2792121

Our government cannot provide information because of “national security” and “privacy concerns.”

I am probably one of the few on this board who still remember Joseph McCarthy spouting his unsubstantiated fear mongering in the USA in the 1950's.

One of his typical statements was , “I have in my hand 57 cases of individuals who would appear to be either card-carrying members or certainly loyal to the Communist Party, but who nevertheless are still helping to shape our foreign policy.” He could never submit any documentation but still was able to fear monger based on a dark communist conspiracy within the USA. The Americans finally saw through him.

Now we have a cabinet member of the Harper government, the same government which has just rammed through an entry of Canada into a questionable war in the Middle East, warning us of these many “insurgents”, “terrorists” and “potential killers” who are among us !!!!

Public Safety Minister Steven Blaney took his opportunity speaking to the committee to attack Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau for visiting two mosques in the Montreal area that have ties to Islamic extremism.

If we know who and where these guys are, then why are they still out there?

Do you believe that this “threat” really exists?

[Keepitsimple]

If we know who and where these guys are, then why are they still out there?

Do you believe that this “threat” really exists?

Because regardless of what we might believe, there is still the rule of law. I'm sure the RCMP is watching every one of them carefully and gathering evidence as required - to lay charges if necessary.

Is there a threat?....the potential that one or more of these jihadists and ISIS sympathizers might inflict harm within Canada after participating in some of those heinous activities abroad? Pretty obvious answer unless you are completely naïve. What do YOU think?

Edited October 9, 2014 by Keepitsimple

[eyeball]

Do you believe that this “threat” really exists?

Let me just say I think we're only a mere galvanizing event or two away from being a country that many of us will not recognize and come to detest and one that just as many will have only imagined and love at first sight.

[GostHacked]

As we have seen south of the border, it will be used as an excuse to scare you to give up your rights and freedom for security, no matter if the threat is real or not.

[bush_cheney2004]

Meh....Canada is doing what it has always done....from WW1 internments through security certificates dating back to the 1970's...long before the USA's PATRIOT Act. Senator McCarthy would laugh from his grave.

[On Guard for Thee]

As we have seen south of the border, it will be used as an excuse to scare you to give up your rights and freedom for security, no matter if the threat is real or not.

Of course. And you know GD well the gun shops will be giggling all over themselves as Americans arm up some more to protect themselves from...oh something or other. Fear is a wonderful sales tool.

[Guest]

Let me just say I think we're only a mere galvanizing event or two away from being a country that many of us will not recognize and come to detest and one that just as many will have only imagined and love at first sight.

What steps do you think we should take, then, to prevent the galvanizing events? I ask out of genuine curiosity.

[Michael Hardner]

Do you believe that this “threat” really exists?

Well, it exists on *some* level. There have definitely been people recruited by these groups, and other countries are reporting the same thing happening so he's not making it up. That makes your McCarthy comparison thin, to start with.

[Michael Hardner]

As we have seen south of the border, it will be used as an excuse to scare you to give up your rights and freedom for security, no matter if the threat is real or not.

The counter-argument uses scare mongering too. For example "give up your rights and freedoms" means what ? I'll tell you - your emails and phone calls might (but likely won't) be subject to surveillance, and you have to take off your shoes when you're getting on a plane.

What else ?

Both sides are trying to scare the casual reader on this topic.

[Peter F]

Is there a threat?....the potential that one or more of these jihadists and ISIS sympathizers might inflict harm within Canada after participating in some of those heinous activities abroad? Pretty obvious answer unless you are completely naïve. What do YOU think?

Very obvious answer actually supplied by the guys who have actual information . From the OP linked CBC article:

Coulombe also provided more information about an August report detailing more than 130 Canadians who had travelled abroad to join in alleged terrorist activities and 80 individuals "who have returned to Canada after travel abroad for a variety of suspected terrorism-related purposes."

Some of those individuals could be involved in related work like fundraising or propaganda, Coulombe said.

"I don't want people to believe that we have 80 returnees who were hard fighters in Iraq and Syria, because that is not the picture we have at the moment, although we have some of them."

and...RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson :

"It's nothing for Canadians to be alarmed about,"

[Big Guy]

...

Is there a threat?....the potential that one or more of these jihadists and ISIS sympathizers might inflict harm within Canada after participating in some of those heinous activities abroad? Pretty obvious answer unless you are completely naïve. What do YOU think?

I am very sceptical.

I find it a suspect “coincidence” that this information comes out at the time of a controversial decision by the Harper government to join into a war in the Middle East.

If the criteria for being labelled a “possible threat” is suspected to being a member of, supporting, giving financial aid to or attending a meeting of ... then a lot of possibilities exist, especially considering that Canada has designated 52 organizations as “terrorist”;

http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/ntnl-scrt/cntr-trrrsm/lstd-ntts/crrnt-lstd-ntts-eng.aspx

Canada has a large number of immigrants from all places in the world, including those countries which harbour “terrorist” organizations.

Remember that these 80 are “suspected” of that sweeping criteria. Are these people any more a threat than those who murder over 500 people in Canada annually? You be the judge.

I feel this government is needlessly creating fears that are not warranted. The release of that information does nothing to increase the likelihood that these 80 will be found guilty of anything. Why then release that information if not to provide cover for a controversial federal decision to go to war?

Considering all of the scandals of misinforming the populace, I do not trust this Harper government to be honest with Canadian citizens.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Big Guy

[Keepitsimple]

Very obvious answer actually supplied by the guys who have actual information . From the OP linked CBC article:

and...RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson :

Listen to Coulombe in a bit more detail - and in the right context - where all Western nations are warning their citizens:

It said the government was aware of about 80 such people who had returned to Canada.

As extremists affiliated with the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant wage guerrilla-style battles in war-stricken Syria and parts of Iraq, western nations are warning that combatants could arrive home harbouring violent intentions.

CSIS director Michel Coulombe noted that fighters from many western countries with trusted passports could enter Canada easily with the aim of carrying out an attack.

"We don't want to sound alarmist. We're telling people that they should go about their daily life, but we have to be vigilant," Coulombe said.

Link: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/rcmp-investigating-suspected-extremists-returned-abroad-blaney-200927547.html

[overthere]

Let me just say I think we're only a mere galvanizing event or two away from being a country that many of us will not recognize and come to detest and one that just as many will have only imagined and love at first sight.

I fear that the galvanizing event will involve scraping many body parts off a Canadian street.

It's a no-win game for CSIS and other security organizations. They cannot reveal anything specific or detailed to poltiicians except perhaps the Minister of Justice. On the other hand, they have to respond to constant queries from the media with something other than no comment.

They cannot boast of successes, they can only take the heat for failures.

The OP comparison to McCarthy is utterly ridiculous. Shame on you.

[Guest]

Good post.

[Argus]

As we have seen south of the border, it will be used as an excuse to scare you to give up your rights and freedom for security, no matter if the threat is real or not.

What rights have they given up?

[Guest]

Shampoo. You can't take shampoo on a flight.

[Big Guy]

...

The OP comparison to McCarthy is utterly ridiculous. Shame on you.

Mccarthyism

1. the practice of making accusations of disloyalty, especially of pro-Communist activity, in many instances unsupported by proof or based on slight, doubtful, or irrelevant evidence.

2. the practice of making unfair allegations or using unfair investigative techniques, especially in order to restrict dissent or political criticism.

I have nothing to be ashamed of.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Big Guy

[overthere]

Sorry, I was not clear earlier

Your comparison of a mild and general statement by an obscure bureaucrat to the longrunning horrific destruction of many lives by Sen McCarthy and his pals is stupid, inaccurate and a gross affront to the people that suffered from his actions. Really suffered- their livelihoods, their families, in some cases their lives.

Oh, and it's utterly ridiculous.

It's like equating graffiti on a synagogue with life at Bergen-Belsen.

You should be ashamed

[cybercoma]

Shampoo. You can't take shampoo on a flight.

Isn't it nice being white and only having to worry about your shampoo?

[Guest]

Well, I'm pretty much bald, too.

[Big Guy]

Sorry, I was not clear earlier

Your comparison of a mild and general statement by an obscure bureaucrat to the longrunning horrific destruction of many lives by Sen McCarthy and his pals is stupid, inaccurate and a gross affront to the people that suffered from his actions. Really suffered- their livelihoods, their families, in some cases their lives.

Oh, and it's utterly ridiculous.

It's like equating graffiti on a synagogue with life at Bergen-Belsen.

You should be ashamed

Thank you for clarifying your previous post.

To allude indignation and outrage to my giving an example of a valid and pointed similarity of one government official making unfair allegations or using unfair investigative techniques, especially in order to restrict dissent or political criticism to that of a recent one, is questionable and reeks of a self serving pro-Canadian military involvement in Syria agenda.

I suggest the use of more objective arguments and fewer outrages of subjectivity if you hope to present realistic and factual criticism of my position.

It's like equating life at Bergen-Belsen with graffiti on a synagogue.

You should be ashamed!

[bush_cheney2004]

....I suggest the use of more objective arguments and fewer outrages of subjectivity if you hope to present realistic and factual criticism of my position.

He did....may I suggest a more objective argument comparing and contrasting Canadian examples of same instead of the erroneous and typical cross border definition using a completely unrelated American experience with an elected member of Congress.

[cybercoma]

Well, I'm pretty much bald, too.

You've got it made.

[overthere]

Thank you for clarifying your previous post.

To allude indignation and outrage to my giving an example of a valid and pointed similarity of one government official making unfair allegations or using unfair investigative techniques, especially in order to restrict dissent or political criticism to that of a recent one, is questionable and reeks of a self serving pro-Canadian military involvement in Syria agenda.

I suggest the use of more objective arguments and fewer outrages of subjectivity if you hope to present realistic and factual criticism of my position.

It's like equating life at Bergen-Belsen with graffiti on a synagogue.

You should be ashamed!

You're dishonest too, if you continue with this charade of a mild warning from a CSIS official- a warning also made in many other Western Countries- with somebody like McCarthy.... McCarthy did not warn, he acted to destroy hundreds of people in a shameful actual suspension of civil liberties.

I sincerely hope you keep yapping on about your absurd analogy, the hole just gets deeper.

Tell me, when are the show trials headed by Mr Coulombe beginning and where is the venue for same?

[GostHacked]

What rights have they given up?

I said it will be used as an excuse to give up your rights and freedoms. Nowhere have I stated that the Canadian government has already taken rights away. But they keep trying. Bill C-30, for example, the warrant-less wiretapping. They tried it two other times to ram something similar through. The Supreme Court of Canada pushed back on the government programs claiming it was not constitutional and would violate the privacy of Canadians. Which is a huge blow to Harper as he appointed some of those judges that ruled against these policies. Obviously you appoint someone who is going to help you out in the future. Why would the PM appoint people that would not benefit him?