Should Canada Deploy the DART to Africa?

[eyeball]

If not, then how would Canada manage infectious disease control within its own borders ?

We still have medical systems from one end of the country to the other.

This is not rocket science......

No, but don't forget the political science that's involved.

[Derek 2.0]

We still have medical systems from one end of the country to the other.

Exactly, coupled with PHAC at the Federal level.

[Smallc]

I don't think you really understand that such programs in Canada are the purview of civilian agencies at the Federal and Provincial level.....not the military.

And this ain't in Canada. The military medical personnel are trained to the same standard as the rest, with some increased knowledge on trauma.

[Derek 2.0]

And this ain't in Canada. The military medical personnel are trained to the same standard as the rest, with some increased knowledge on trauma.

Yet, PHAC is already involved in the West Africa Ebola outbreak..........and the Canadian military zilch.

[bush_cheney2004]

We still have medical systems from one end of the country to the other.

Yes..we saw that on display during the SARS "outbreak"....British Columbia did a great job....Ontario....not so much.

[overthere]

DART was in Haiti, with outbreaks of cholera.

They should at least deploy their clean water production team.

[Derek 2.0]

Yes..we saw that on display during the SARS "outbreak"....British Columbia did a great job....Ontario....not so much.

And the result was the expansion of OERS and to strengthen communication between the Feds and the Provinces and Territories, coupled with NGOs, IGOs etc………no mention of the armed forces.

[Derek 2.0]

DART was in Haiti, with outbreaks of cholera.

They should at least deploy their clean water production team.

Not to treat people with cholera..........

[overthere]

Not to treat people with cholera..........

To prevent cholera.

We could do the same in West Africa, where clean water is certainly a problem.

As noted, it is a support role we do well.

[Smallc]

Not to treat people with cholera..........

Yes, actually, that was part of it.

[Derek 2.0]

To prevent cholera.

We could do the same in West Africa, where clean water is certainly a problem.

As noted, it is a support role we do well.

So you would send Canadian army engineers into a quarantined region……..I trust you’ll lead them with your swagger stick over the top.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Derek 2.0

[Derek 2.0]

Yes, actually, that was part of it.

How many epidemiologists are employed by DND?

[waldo]

from what I read, MSF (Doctor's Without Borders) has requested Canada's DART be deployed... considering the overall strained relations between MSF and militaries (at large), that's a revealing request. I just scanned/searched through the MP comments during the relatively recent emergency debate held concerning the Ebola outbreak/crisis in Africa... DART is mentioned several times by Opposition members... asking Harper Conservatives directly as to intent in deploying DART. There were many lengthy responses from Harper Conservative MPs (including a most lengthy response from Health Minister Ambrose)... as I can find, not a single government response speaks directly (or indirectly) to DART. There are certainly many responses that speak to monies provided, to the diagnostic lab provided, to the experimental vaccines provided, etc.; however, no one from the Harper Conservative government side, as I found/reviewed, was willing to offer direct comment in regards to questions about deploying DART.

[Derek 2.0]

from what I read, MSF (Doctor's Without Borders) has requested Canada's DART be deployed...

Not quite:

TORONTO - Just two weeks ago the international president of Medecins Sans Frontieres insisted she didn't want to be quoted saying military hospitals should be deployed to West Africa's Ebola zone to bolster the woefully undermanned response efforts there — even though she herself raised the possibility.

Dr. Joanne Liu had just returned from touring treatment facilities MSF — also known as Doctors Without Borders — is operating in Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia, which are engulfed in the worst Ebola outbreak on record.

In an interview with The Canadian Press, she proposed tapping into military assistance, then quickly backed away when asked to be more explicit.

"I don't want you to quote me on that, because I'm going to get killed by MSF," Liu said, her comment revealing the tension that often exists between Doctors Without Borders and the world's armies.

and

Should Canada deploy DART, its Disaster Assistance Response Team, which is often sent in response to natural disasters abroad? As of late last week sources suggested a DART deployment was not being considered. And late Tuesday, the government suggested it hadn't been asked for this type of help — at least not by countries battling Ebola.

"Canada has not received a request from affected countries to send in the Disaster Assistance Response Team," department spokeswoman Beatrice Fenelon said via email.

Stephen Cornish, executive director of MSF Canada, says the organization had been in ongoing discussions with the Canadian government about assistance it could offer.

If Canada were to expand its current levels of assistance, there would be far more effective civilian resources to employ.

[eyeball]

It sounds like there are lots of good NGO's already on the ground that need more funds, and cash is probably what Ottawa can make happen soonest in this case.

[Derek 2.0]

It sounds like there are lots of good NGO's already on the ground that need more funds, and cash is probably what Ottawa can make happen soonest in this case.

Exactly, coupled vaccine research/production from the national laboratory in Winnipeg.

[overthere]

So you would send Canadian army engineers into a quarantined region……..I trust you’ll lead them with your swagger stick over the top.

We send our troops into potentially harmful situations all the time. At least nobody is shooting in this one. Both the locals and the medical teams on the ground have an urgent need for clean water, and we have expertise in this field.

What is your specific issue?

[Derek 2.0]

We send our troops into potentially harmful situations all the time. At least nobody is shooting in this one. Both the locals and the medical teams on the ground have an urgent need for clean water, and we have expertise in this field.

What is your specific issue?

The harmful situations that we send them into, to the best of our ability, we have trained and prepared them with the tools required for both success of the mission and their safe return…….With the current situation, the Canadian Forces do not have the proper training or tools to operate safely in a highly contagious, epidemic environment……….there are far more Canadian, civilian medical professionals able to lend aide……..

Ponder this, when we have outbreaks within our own borders (H1n1, SARS, the flu etc) the responders are from within the various Canadian healthcare services, not the army…..why should that be any different with West African Ebola?

[overthere]

The harmful situations that we send them into, to the best of our ability, we have trained and prepared them with the tools required for both success of the mission and their safe return…….With the current situation, the Canadian Forces do not have the proper training or tools to operate safely in a highly contagious, epidemic environment……….there are far more Canadian, civilian medical professionals able to lend aide……..

Ponder this, when we have outbreaks within our own borders (H1n1, SARS, the flu etc) the responders are from within the various Canadian healthcare services, not the army…..why should that be any different with West African Ebola?

Why would our troops require specific medical training to produce water? They need training to produce the water, which they have now. We are not providing medical treatment, we would be providing water.

We do not have an issue with clean water in outbreaks within our border, so your analogy is meaningless.

[Argus]

It sounds like there are lots of good NGO's already on the ground that need more funds, and cash is probably what Ottawa can make happen soonest in this case.

Who are overwhelmed, from what I've read. I've seen several reports where they're saying, as Obama did at the UN, that they need more than money. They need people.

And what they especially need is a group of disciplined people who can provide security in a tough environment as well as medical care. That sure sounds like DART to me.

The suggestion that DART can only deal with trauma cases is silly. ER's deal with trauma cases all the time but it doesn't mean they don't deal with the flu and every other type of virus and disease. The doctors who are treating people in these areas aren't all specialty 'epidemiologists'. Almost none are, in fact. They're just doctors.

Massive amounts of supplies and additional health workers are still needed in Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea to help control the Ebola outbreak there that may grow to more than 1 million infections under one worst-case scenario, according to aid agencies. Curbing the virus will require 1,000 more international medical personnel as well as 20,000 local residents who know the area well and can work as doctors, nurses, communication specialists, burial teams, contact tracers and trainers, said Dan Epstein, a spokesman for the World Health Organization.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-23/ebola-outlook-grim-as-study-predicts-21-000-cases-by-nov-.html

If you look at this report, there are just 2 doctors available to deal with both ebola cases, and all other problems (malaria, trauma, etc) in an area of 85,000 people.

he medical team in Bomi County consists of Dr Gobee Logan, the county health director and another doctor, according to CNN.

The team is responsible for treating Ebola patients, 100 patients in a general hospital and sick people in the rest of the county.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/ebola-virus-outbreak-just-two-doctors-available-to-treat-85000-people-in-liberia-county-9755580.html

As Ebola continues to spread, Dr. Forget says more foreign healthcare staff and treatment centres are urgently needed in the regions most affected.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/28/aid-urgently-needed-for-deadly-ebola-outbreak-canadian-doctor/

[Derek 2.0]

Why would our troops require specific medical training to produce water? They need training to produce the water, which they have now. We are not providing medical treatment, we would be providing water.

Interaction with a populace with a lethal and not easily treatable virus……..I trust you’ll be volunteering with an NGO….a great many are looking for folks to canvass door-to-door in search of infected locals.

[Argus]

Ponder this, when we have outbreaks within our own borders (H1n1, SARS, the flu etc) the responders are from within the various Canadian healthcare services, not the army…..why should that be any different with West African Ebola?

Because there's a security element involved, with ignorant, panicky people attacking medical personnel, and because there aren't the necessary local medical systems in place there, and because we have no organized medical group other than DART who can be sent.

[Argus]

Interaction with a populace with a lethal and not easily treatable virus……..I trust you’ll be volunteering with an NGO….a great many are looking for folks to canvass door-to-door in search of infected locals.

The army comes with risk. Sometimes it's the risk of being shot or blown up. This is a rather milder risk, provided proper steps are taken. A plastic suit can keep out the virus. It can't keep out a bullet.

[Derek 2.0]

Because there's a security element involved, with ignorant, panicky people attacking medical personnel, and because there aren't the necessary local medical systems in place there, and because we have no organized medical group other than DART who can be sent.

So you now wish to provide security, that the various Governments haven't requested, in a plague ravaged, backwards region........

No organized medical group? What does our Federal Government employ currently via the PHAC?

[Derek 2.0]

The army comes with risk. Sometimes it's the risk of being shot or blown up. This is a rather milder risk, provided proper steps are taken. A plastic suit can keep out the virus. It can't keep out a bullet.

What steps? Also, what is the effectiveness of a person operating inside of “plastic suit”, in a humid tropical region, after several hours, let alone days, weeks months etc? I haven’t partook in NBC training for over 30 years…..fortunately most potential biological ailments our Forces are trained to contend with can be inoculated against or treated……..Ebola sounds far more problematic.