Tim Hudak and the incompetence of the Ontario PC's

[Michael Hardner]

Just found a list of PC that could run... MP Raitt, MP Clement. MPP MacLeod, MPP Christine Elliot and MPP Vic Fedeli. probably Clement, Elliot and maybe Raitt having the most chance. Thoughts?

I want Vic Dhillon (L) to ascend at some point, if only because Spoonerizing his name (Transposing leading phonemes on the two names) gives you "Dick Villain"

[Michael Hardner]

While the demeanor of the leaders probably did have a serious effect on the outcome I believe it had a lot to do with the policies. Hudak made no secret that he was another Mike Harris.

Harris is the gift to liberals that keeps on giving. Simultaneously sinking any politicians that try to emulate him while casting that odd spell to his devotees that make them oblivious to his effect on the electorate.

[Michael Hardner]

Michael Ching has said he's been encouraged to seek the leadership. I think he'd be an excellent fit for the job.

That would be Michael Chong. I just glanced at his Wiki page and there's a significant amount of achievement, as an IT executive in many verticals. This means he has the ability to work with large organizations, to deal with varied groups of stakeholders as well as the public, and to solve problems.

That seems like an excellent starting point.

[Newfoundlander]

That would be Michael Chong. I just glanced at his Wiki page and there's a significant amount of achievement, as an IT executive in many verticals. This means he has the ability to work with large organizations, to deal with varied groups of stakeholders as well as the public, and to solve problems.

That seems like an excellent starting point.

Stupid autocorrect, yes Chong. He's also fairly young, has been screwed by Harper, is and indepdent think and overall likeable.

[BubberMiley]

In his comments today, Doug Ford suggests he is serious considering a run for the leadership. If he does, I think he's a shoo-in.

[jacee]

Harris is the gift to liberals that keeps on giving. Simultaneously sinking any politicians that try to emulate him while casting that odd spell to his devotees that make them oblivious to his effect on the electorate.

And Hudak ... particularly devoid of any appeal to the electorate:

Hudak, however fine he is in private life, in politics was like a horse in a library. He was just out of place, a gentleman with so few of the gifts than a leader politician must have.

He did not stir his supporters, he had little charm for independents, and he did not intimidate his opponents.

Politics can abide anything but dullness and Hudak brought dullness to the job by the bushel.

http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/06/14/rex-murphy-they-gave-wynne-time-she-used-it-well

[jacee]

In his comments today, Doug Ford suggests he is serious considering a run for the leadership. If he does, I think he's a shoo-in.

You are joking, right?

The provincial PC's already distanced themselves from Doug.

A known pathological liar would be a hard sell, and a very stupid choice.

Edited June 14, 2014 by jacee

[Michael Hardner]

And Hudak ... particularly devoid of any appeal to the electorate

I think that the resumes for the three leaders were light on executive experience, and more suited for career politicians than people to had to lead.

[Moonbox]

That would be Michael Chong. I just glanced at his Wiki page and there's a significant amount of achievement, as an IT executive in many verticals. This means he has the ability to work with large organizations, to deal with varied groups of stakeholders as well as the public, and to solve problems.

That seems like an excellent starting point.

He's a federal isn't he? Either way, he'd be a great candidate. He's principled (lost a cabinet position for standing up to Harper), obviously very smart, charismatic and sitting as an ethnic minority MP in a VERY white rural riding.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Moonbox

[Michael Hardner]

Yes, you are right - federal MP.

[August1991]

No, any reasonably personable guy with a reassuring manner would have done it. Ontario was ready to change, and had had enough of the Liberals. Hudak, however, had no charm and no charisma, and never established trusth with the public. Even conservatives like myself disliked him and questioned his campaign tactics.

But you have to bear in mind that it's much harder for a party which calls for austerity to get into power than one which promises champaign and chocolates for everyone. When you start out with the fact almost a third of the voters pay no taxes, you're really behind the eight ball when you start talking cutbacks. That one third don't give a damn how high taxes get since they don't pay any. They will always vote for the party which promises them more goodies.

In order to get around 40%, which is what you need for a majority government, an austerity party needs to get about 57% of the vote from taxpayers (the 70% who pay taxes). That's very hard to do, especially when you have the Liberals promising to be much more careful with taxpayer dollars and to balance the budget... eventually.. easily... with no damage or harm to anyone.

Argus, you're the guy who argues that "folksy" wins. Well, Wynne is not folksy and Hudak managed at best 30%. IOW, I don't think Hudak's or Wynn's personality, or the PC campaign, was the issue here.

First, like Coyne, I think that this election was a referendum on government spending.

And second, I am surprised so few others have noted the electoral map: This is urban/immigrant Ontario against the WASP heartland. (Northern Ontario should be a separate province, but I digress... )

====

And this leaves the key question for Harper in 2015.

In a federal election, Harper will need more than 30 seats in "vote-rich Ontario" to form a majority. Dunno but I suspect that Harper has a better handle on the 905/immigrant vote than Hudak did.

=====

Margaret Thatcher, I think, said that "First you win the debate. Then you win the election." Hudal clearly didn't win the debate.

IMHO, we are involved in a cultural/political debate and like it or not, immigrants to Canada are part of the discussion.

In a world democratic election of 7 billion voters, Canadians would be impovishered and Canada destroyed as the billions of poor voted to take from the rich. Would such democracy make the world a better place?

Edited June 14, 2014 by August1991

[Argus]

Argus, you're the guy who argues that "folksy" wins. Well, Wynne is not folksy and Hudak managed at best 30%. IOW, I don't Hudak's personality, or the PC campaign, was the issue here.

Yes, folksy wins. But Hudak was as far from folksy as possible. Wynne, for all her lack of charms, was folksier than Hudak, and while you're right in that the PC campaign was the issue, folksy makes up for a lot. People forgive Justin Trudeau or shrug off things he does they never would if he was ugly and lacked charm and charisma

First, like Coyne, I think that this election was a referendum on government spending.

Coyne is sulking. It was about trust. Wynne had the advantage of having been in office for a year or two. Hudak was an unknown who, with the help of massive advertising from unions, the Liberals managed to portray as Ghengis Khan about to tear government apart with wild, thoughless cuts. People didn't think very far beyond that. They realize the budget has to be gotten under control, but they were afraid of Hudak.

And second, I am surprised so few others have noted the electoral map: This is urban/immigrant Ontario against the WASP heartland.

There is some of that. There's also a gay vs straight thing going. Most gays have gravitated towards the cities, and none of them are likely to be voting Conservative. And not all those urban people who disdain tories are immigrants. In fact, the tories have made great strides in wooing the immigrant communities. Think of it this way, regardless of immigrants, if you think of any urban center considered fashioable and hip, you're probably not looking at a lot of conservative voters. These are places where people 'care' about all kinds of fashionable issues, but don't think much about complex economics. Immigrant doesn't really enter into that.

In a federal election, Harper will need more than 30 seats in "vote-rich Ontario" to form a majority. Dunno but I suspect that Harper has a better handle on the 905/immigrant vote than Hudak did.

It's also a lot harder to portray him as Ghenghis Khan since he's been in power so long, and the unions won't be able to spend millions on advertising and scare tactics.

[ParkdaleCon]

I think the next Ontario PC leader will come from the federal level. Chong would be a great leader, but if Raitt does decide to run, it will be her's to lose I think. In the end it will come down to her and Christine Elliott I think.

Edited June 15, 2014 by ParkdaleCon

[Mighty AC]

I think the next Ontario PC leader will come from the federal level. Chong would be a great leader, but if Raitt does decide to run, it will be her's to lose I think. In the end it will come down to her and Christine Elliott I think.

I really like Chong; smart, level headed and principled. He gave up a cabinet position to oppose Harper's idiotic, Quebecois Nation, attempted majority buying, BS. I think he'd bring back the PROGRESSIVE Conservatism that Ontario could really benefit from.

[Argus]

I really like Chong; smart, level headed and principled. He gave up a cabinet position to oppose Harper's idiotic, Quebecois Nation, attempted majority buying, BS. I think he'd bring back the PROGRESSIVE Conservatism that Ontario could really benefit from.

The progressive conservatives were morally and intellectually bankrupt. They were the Liberals in blue, no difference. They cared about power and polls and nothing else and would take any position the polls showed them might be popular. At least the Conservatives offer the voter a choice.

[Mighty AC]

The progressive conservatives were morally and intellectually bankrupt. They were the Liberals in blue, no difference. They cared about power and polls and nothing else and would take any position the polls showed them might be popular. At least the Conservatives offer the voter a choice.

A bad choice...hence they were punished. I would love to see a leader like Michael Chong offer us an intelligent alternative, next time around.

[Moonbox]

And second, I am surprised so few others have noted the electoral map: This is urban/immigrant Ontario against the WASP heartland. (Northern Ontario should be a separate province, but I digress... )

This election didn't have anything to do with immigrants. It wasn't even a rural vs urban affair. Tim Hudak flopped in every part of the province. Large, medium and small cities voted against him. Ethnic voters in Toronto didn't like him, nor did WASP communities like London, K-W/Cambridge, Guelph, Barrie or Kingston. Even rural voters were upset with him, but they'll vote PC no matter what because it's the only party that doesn't essentially defecate on them or, at best, completely ignore them.

The fact that Hudak failed so miserably in the face of so many large, public and expensive Liberal scandals, shows us just how incompetent his campaign really was. It's hard to conceive of any way to have blown this election any harder than Hudak and his campaign did. I thought John Tory's shotgun-in-mouth was something I wouldn't see again for 25 years. Hudak managed to somehow one-up that in 7. It was unreal watching the whole thing unfold.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Moonbox

[Argus]

A bad choice...hence they were punished. I would love to see a leader like Michael Chong offer us an intelligent alternative, next time around.

How were they a bad choice? I am still waiting to understand how anyone thinks the Liberals are going to balance the budget without any job cuts or slashes to programs.

The Conservatives were the choice of those who wanted the budget balanced. Is that a bad choice?

[madmax]

There is some of that. There's also a gay vs straight thing going. Most gays have gravitated towards the cities, and none of them are likely to be voting Conservative.

Very Strange, considering Tim Hudak and the PCs prevented local candidates from challenging their hand picked Openly Gay Toronto residing candidate. A former MPP and Cabinet minister and having the help of Gays in the Federal Caucus. This Gay thing is such a non issue, with regards to the piss poor PC campaign and its mathematically challenged platform of hope.

Perhaps you missed it, but Rob Ford Wouldn't vote for Tim Hudak , because he supports Gays and Gay Pride, and the Flag.

Ironically, I am not sure if Rob managed a vote from rehab, but he doesn't get to select Tim Hudak, he would have to vote for Doug Holiday, and well, Doug Lost... to the Liberals .....

The PCs may have WISHED for a Balanced Budget, but even common folk, could figure out, if you got a deficit, gifting RBC, the Insurance Companies a 30% tax windfall, while the rest of us eat cake , doesn't reduce a deficit, or for that matter create jobs....

Infact, RBC having just got caught red handed firing people, and hiring Foreign Temps, while making billions in profits only reinforced the pc platform was an idealogical dream and a commoners nightmare.

[Mighty AC]

The Conservatives were the choice of those who wanted the budget balanced. Is that a bad choice?

It depends on how it will be achieved. Cutting the legs off an obese man may achieve a weight loss goal but it's still a bad plan.

[jacee]

It depends on how it will be achieved. Cutting the legs off an obese man may achieve a weight loss goal but it's still a bad plan.

Well said.

.

[Keepitsimple]

It depends on how it will be achieved. Cutting the legs off an obese man may achieve a weight loss goal but it's still a bad plan.

If the deficit continues to rise - that's exactly what we'll have to do 4 years from now. Some pain now or a lot of pain later. Hopefully, we'll have enough money left for anesthesia.

[Boges]

Wynne, today, said there is "No New Money" for public sector wages. I guess teachers will end up striking afterall.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Boges

[Argus]

It depends on how it will be achieved. Cutting the legs off an obese man may achieve a weight loss goal but it's still a bad plan.

So what is Wynn's weight loss plan? She says she'll balance the budget in two years (starting next year) without cuts or pain? Sorry. Not buying it.

[overthere]

Wynne needs a major bogeyman urgently, and Harper will fit the bill.

All of Ontarios woes are his fault.

Unless she cuts expenses dramatically, Ontarians will be paying much higher personal taxes and user fees. Probably get both anyway.