Michael Sam; homosexual NFL football player

[Bob Macadoo]

If you don't love the Al Gore kiss, you're a Gore-aphobe!

Aren't you the king of calling "STRAWMAN!"?

If you don't have any reaction to a kiss between 2 people that doesn't involve you, you're normal......otherwise you're most likely an attention seeker.

[BubberMiley]

And if they don't, you and your ilk get a serious case of the vapors.

You're making things up again. I just wondered whether you're going to create threads about every little thing that grosses you out or if this one thing is special, and why. Your subsequent post answers my question about whether the thread is designed to discuss illusive e-lynchers in the MSM. Please continue.

[cybercoma]

Yep, I'm occasionally juvenile from time to time. But thanks for respecting my opinion. For some reason it's really shocked people that a heterosexual male, that doesn't find other males attractive, would not find two males kissing, with cake on their faces, all that attractive. Unbelievable huh!? The next thing I need to do, I'm guessing, is find a really fat woman in a bikini also attractive. And then after that, maybe a child with snot dripping out of their nose. Who knows.

No one wants you to find it "attractive." You know there's other options between repeatedly voicing your disgusting and being attracted to it, right?

[cybercoma]

No, the thread is about him being drafted as much as the kiss. It's just the kiss is what you and your ilk are transfixed by. Because g-dammit, everybody NEEDS to love it! And if they don't, you and your ilk get a serious case of the vapors.

No one's asking you to love it. They're telling you to grow the f' up.

[WestCoastRunner]

No, the thread is about him being drafted as much as the kiss. It's just the kiss is what you and your ilk are transfixed by. Because g-dammit, everybody NEEDS to love it! And if they don't, you and your ilk get a serious case of the vapors.

It's about him being drafted? Are you sure about that? Is that why you started this thread? You are the one who brought up how disgusted you were by the kiss. Come on, Shady. Grow up.

[Shady]

I never said I was disgusted. Now you people are just making things up. Regardless, one can be fully grown up and yet still find something unattractive. Despite what the attractive police have to say about it. The "grow up" response is just code for sit down, be quiet, and find what we think is attractive, attractive. Well, you will never silence me. I will speak my mind. Deal with it, and grow up.

[cybercoma]

For the third time, no one is telling you that you need to find it attractive. You're the only one in this thread that has brought up being attracted to them kissing. Is there something you need to get off your chest?

[WestCoastRunner]

I never said I was disgusted.

You said "I also think guys kissing is sort of gross." Is that not disgusted? Shady, you need to think before you post these responses.

[kimmy]

Shady, I don't think anybody is directing anger at people who were uncomfortable watching "the kiss".

I think the anger is directed at people who were uncomfortable watching "the kiss" and claiming that they have been harmed or persecuted or assaulted by it.

We have all these people from places like Family Research Council and American Family Association angry that ESPN showed "the kiss" and claiming that it was an attack on their religious beliefs. Bryan Fischer and Sandy Rios calling it an attack on their beliefs, Peter LaBarbera claiming he was "forced" to watch it, that sort of stuff. Maybe I'm cynical, maybe I just unaware of how massively popular TV coverage of the NFL draft is, but I find it amazingly coincidental that all of these religious zealots were glued to their TVs during the last round of the draft. I have a hunch that they were watching because they wanted to find out what happened with Michael Sam. Seems kind of like tuning in to a UFC fight so that you can complain about the violence. Seems kind of like August paying his $10 to see a Tarantino movie so that he can tell you how much he hated it.

They have the right to be grossed out if they wish. But they don't have the right to be shielded from things that offend them. I mean, when Muslim dummies kick and scream because they saw a cartoon that offended them, what do we say? We say "grow some skin, bro". "They said this about our Prophet!" "They said that about our Quran!" Yeah? So? It's a big world full of people who don't share all your beliefs. Michael Sam did something on TV that doesn't conform to American Family Association's world view? Yeah? So? If they can't deal with it, it's their problem, not Michael Sam's and not ESPN's.

-k

[bleeding heart]

Nicely said,

Anyone who considers anyone kissing to be "unattractive" has a very obvious choice they can make.

Don't look.

And if you catch it by accident: who give's a rat's ass?

Edited May 18, 2014 by bleeding heart

[Big Guy]

The idea of openly gay people sharing locker rooms and changing facilities with straight fellow athletes may require a rethink of those arrangements. Communal showering and locker room nakedness is common for athletes of ALL ages.

Since the trigger to activate the libido of an individual becomes a same sex individual and the others in the same room understand that reality then I assume that the comfort level for many would change. I doubt that most women would be comfortable naked while sharing showering facilities with men – and vice versa.

I understand that while women reporters are allowed into professional football's locker rooms, they do so infrequently and only during specific prearranged times. That is in deference to the different sensitivities of the athletes. The same I believe is true for male reporters in women's locker room.

The world evolves, some adapt quickly for others it will take some time.

BTW There are some pundits who suggest that Sam “came out” before the draft so that he could be in a position to sue if he was not drafted – and that the move made sure that some team would. If that was part of his decision then it was a smart move. You can imagine the uproar if he was passed over. I do not know what his talent specs were and where he was on the teams draft list or if he would have been drafted if he would not have “come out”. His success in the pre and regular season should indicate his talent level.

[kimmy]

BTW There are some pundits who suggest that Sam “came out” before the draft so that he could be in a position to sue if he was not drafted – and that the move made sure that some team would. If that was part of his decision then it was a smart move. You can imagine the uproar if he was passed over.

I assume these "pundits" are the usual anti-gay and social-conservative suspects who are looking for any possible angle to attack him from. If this opinion came from analysts whose opinion I respect, I would give it some thought, but I doubt it has much merit. Who would he sue? All 32 teams who didn't pick him?

I read Bryan Fischer, the douche from American Family Association, floating the theory that the NFL pressured the Rams to draft him, that Sam is a player who wouldn't have been drafted unless the league stepped in to bully some team into using a sympathy pick on Sam. I doubt it. Michael Sam was the Defensive Player Of The Year in the best conference in college football. He had earlier been projected to go in the 3rd to 5th rounds of the draft.

I read an article where the writer (I can't recall who it was right now) said that in conversations with executives with teams he did not identify, there was definitely unease about drafting Sam. It's not that the execs themselves were homophobic, but there was fear that the presence of an openly gay player could be a disruptive influence (ie, it's assumed that at least some of the players on the team might object to a gay man in the locker-room) or that having an openly gay player would become an unwanted off-field distraction (such as with this Jack Burkman clown who is now attempting to mobilize a boycott of the St Louis Rams.)

I think there's plenty of reason to suspect that being openly gay hurt his draft position, and little to no reason to believe it helped him get drafted.

-k

[Big Guy]

I guess part of the proof will be to see just how successful he is on the field relative to the picks above and below him.

As to who, would he sue? - the NFL. It seems to have become a common and lucrative pastime.

I believe that there are many who would defend him pro bono and the NFL has no interest in getting involved in court battles where their business plans and collusion in many areas would have to be aired.

[cybercoma]

The idea of openly gay people sharing locker rooms and changing facilities with straight fellow athletes may require a rethink of those arrangements.

Why? Frankly, I don't think we should segregate washrooms at all. It's insulting and implies people are not responsible for their own behaviours.

[Mighty AC]

I can't believe that nobody has commented on the fact that the first openly gay NFL draft pick went to the Rams. The only possible better outcome would have been if he was picked by the Browns or the Packers.

[Mighty AC]

I didn't think there would be enough to discuss in this thread to get beyond a page or two. It's understandable that some people may feel uncomfortable seeing public acts of affection by same sex couples. People used to be shocked by interracial acts of affection at one point too. As long as those who feel awkward about it realize that it's their own problem, and they will have to get used to it and get over it.

I can't believe anyone feels homo and hetero athletes would need separate locker rooms. I once stayed in a residence that had co-ed washroom and shower facilities. I never once felt the need to hit on or assault a woman showering in the stall next to me. The only time it felt a little awkward were those mornings after late night, drunken Taco Bell runs. The kind that leave one running for the border, early the next day.

[Boges]

There are comparisons that can be made with Michael Sam and Tim Tebow.

Both were fantastic college players but the experts who's job is to see how a college player can translate into the pros thought both would be lacking.

Now Tebow was given the benefit of the doubt and taken in the first round. He was given a shot start, mostly because of the cries from fans. It became evident that Tebow wasn't starting QB material but when you look at the backups on NFL rosters he would be a great backup on many rosters. But he's out of football because teams don't want the drama that he brings. Teams will be pining for him to start if he goes to a re-building team because he's so popular. The NFL Network and ESPN will wonder when he'll get his chance. That's more attention than what some teams want. Therefore he's out of the league.

Now to Sam. He was the SEC defensive player of the year but his combine numbers were absolute crap. But coming 7 picks from not being drafted indicate that teams didn't want the drama drafting him would come with the first openly gay NFL athlete.

And we see why. There'll be an OWN TV show about Sam. Is that not a distraction to the rest of the players? If he gets cut will there be calls of homophobia? Will people scrutinize how many snaps he gets?

I've seen some of Sam's press conferences. The guy seems like a class act all the way. I hope he does very well. But if he doesn't, will there be more drama attached to his plight then that of your average 7th round pick?

[guyser]

I read Bryan Fischer, the douche from American Family Association, floating the theory that the NFL pressured the Rams to draft him, that Sam is a player who wouldn't have been drafted unless the league stepped in to bully some team into using a sympathy pick on Sam. I doubt it. Michael Sam was the Defensive Player Of The Year in the best conference in college football. He had earlier been projected to go in the 3rd to 5th rounds of the draft.

Various sources I listen to have said the same thing. And they arent religious

To some extent it makes sense. He was Def Player of Year, was outstanding and went 200+th plus ? Why?

[Boges]

Various sources I listen to have said the same thing. And they arent religious

To some extent it makes sense. He was Def Player of Year, was outstanding and went 200+th plus ? Why?

His combine sucked.

Tebow won a Heisman and 2 National titles college performance is different from potential pro performance.

Also, as I said earlier. He comes with a certain amount of attention. Do you want that attention if they guy might not even play?

Edited May 26, 2014 by Boges

[guyser]

His combine sucked.

That too was noted and they opined (the Fan) that it happens regularly and they still get top drafts

[Boges]

That too was noted and they opined (the Fan) that it happens regularly and they still get top drafts

Who else are we talking about?

NFL scouts aren't going to let most off-field questions effect a potential top 2 or 3 round draft pick. After round 4 it's kind of a crap shoot since players you draft there may not make the team.

So if he was projected as a mid round pick before he came out, the distraction of drafting a player who will garner media attention but may end up being cut would be a risk some teams may not have wanted to take.

I'm just saying the two combined caused his draft stock to plummet. Had Jadevon Clowney said he was Gay, I doubt his draft stock would drop much because he's the perfect example of what a DE should be in the pros. Sam, not so much.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Boges

[BC_chick]

The idea of openly gay people sharing locker rooms and changing facilities with straight fellow athletes may require a rethink of those arrangements. Communal showering and locker room nakedness is common for athletes of ALL ages.

Since the trigger to activate the libido of an individual becomes a same sex individual and the others in the same room understand that reality then I assume that the comfort level for many would change. I doubt that most women would be comfortable naked while sharing showering facilities with men – and vice versa.

I understand that while women reporters are allowed into professional football's locker rooms, they do so infrequently and only during specific prearranged times. That is in deference to the different sensitivities of the athletes. The same I believe is true for male reporters in women's locker room.

.

.

I'm sure I've shared a locker room many times with gay or bisexual women. It's no comparison to sharing a locker room with a man. General assumption is that people are straight so the two scenarios are completely different.

[Boges]

.

I'm sure I've shared a locker room many times with gay or bisexual women. It's no comparison to sharing a locker room with a man. General assumption is that people are straight so the two scenarios are completely different.

Yeah I share locker rooms with strangers every time I go to the Gym. If someone is Gay or not is irrelevant to me.

[Mighty AC]

This vid fits the discussion here pretty well. "I'm not a heterphobe but...."

[Boges]

Tony Dungy was thought to be the pinnacle of ethics and honour in football. . .

until he said something bad about Michael Sam.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/tony-dungy-says-he-would-not-want-to--deal-with--michael-sam-distractions-161330049.html

Tony Dungy has always had a strong voice on African-American issues and even was a guiding light for Michael Vick at his lowest point. But the former Buccaneers and Colts head coach told the Tampa Bay Tribune he would not have wanted to help shepherd Michael Sam into the NFL if he was still coaching.

“I wouldn’t have taken him,’’ said Dungy, now an analyst for NBC. “Not because I don’t believe Michael Sam should have a chance to play, but I wouldn’t want to deal with all of it.

“It’s not going to be totally smooth … things will happen.’’

Edited July 23, 2014 by Boges