This week in Islam

[GostHacked]

8 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Not a Christian. 

 

Islam is a personal relationship between the Believer and Allah...no "helpers" are needed to interpret the Quran. Least of all you.

So it seems you've gotten more personal with Islam compared to anyone else here. You do seem quite intimate with the religion. I won't claim to ever think I know more about Islam than you. So, I'll leave it to you. Teach on good sir!

[Marocc]

14 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Negative. Argus is 100% correct on that.

 

Elaborate.

[Marocc]

21 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Lemme guess...know-it-all Muslim is going to set me straight on Islam.

I don't need you to understand Islam...thanks.

This is about the English language.

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, Marocc said:

When you say 'Islam's teachings on apostasy' in plural, it sounds like you ought to start reading books, but the short story from the majority of today's scholars, is as follows:

The Qur'an prescribes no earthly punishment for apostasy alone. The hadiths mention it and at times directly; 'if anyone changes their religion then kill him.' But seeing as this is controversial to the Qur'an it cannot be right.

At the time of revelation the Muslims were living in a different kind of society in which apostasy could at times be considered high treason for which there was and is a death penalty if the judge says so. But not all apostates were killed at the time. Sometimes they were gives lesser punishments and at times pardoned altogether. And women were never killed because they don't take part in fighting to begin with - they were not considered a threat to the community. However, they could be imprisoned instead.

 

They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.

---------------------------------

War is deceit.

---Muhammad

This guy is a liar....for Islam.

[Argus]

55 minutes ago, Marocc said:

There is no modern age for a true religion. You either follow the religion or you don't.

I have some sympathy for that argument. But at the same time if your religion says to kill adulterers and gays then it's not a religion I want spreading in my society.

55 minutes ago, Marocc said:

With religion comes faith. I believe in Allah (Subhaanahu wa ta'ala) and that what he has commanded is good and right.

Are you planning on attacking the Muslim ummah? If not, you don't need to mind the verses, they have assured nothing but peace toward you.

But I am of the house of war, am I not? There is the house of peace - which are Islamic countries - and the House of War - everyone else. Muslims are commanded to take Muhammed as their guide and expand the ummah, by force if necessary.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

This guy is a liar....for Islam.

Gee thanks for the heads up on that.  So we should just go back to listening to you define Islam, RIGHT ?

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

Gee thanks for the heads up on that.  So we should just go back to listening to you define Islam, RIGHT ?

 

Seeing that he just claimed something and he was proven incorrect with his own religious book...probably.

But, you've one foot in the faith already. You might as well just recite the Shahada in front of some male Muslim witnesses and be done with.

[Marocc]

13 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.

---------------------------------

War is deceit.

---Muhammad

This guy is a liar....for Islam.

Does your memory still contain what happened about 15 hours ago?

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

But, you've one foot in the faith already. You might as well just recite the Shahada in front of some male Muslim witnesses and be done with.

I don't care about religion, o pious Imam on Porch.  I don't know what you are talking about, but you have somehow brainwashed yourself into both hating Muslims AND being a Muslim scholar.

It's just fun to watch you in action.

[DogOnPorch]

4 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Does your memory still contain what happened about 15 hours ago?

 

You're free to lie to the Kafir...you know that.

Your words aren't proof...just saying.

Nor do I need you to understand Islam.

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't care about religion, o pious Imam on Porch.  I don't know what you are talking about, but you have somehow brainwashed yourself into both hating Muslims AND being a Muslim scholar.

It's just fun to watch you in action.

 

I don't hate Muslims. You said that. That's another sort of fallacy altogether...

Islam however...I have a problem with any belief system that looks like Treblinka for the Unbeliever. That you do not makes you my opponent.

Edited July 11, 2019 by DogOnPorch

[Marocc]

18 minutes ago, Argus said:

But I am of the house of war, am I not?

No. 

I don't understand what makes you think you have a clue what you're talking about when you clearly get all your misinformation from propaganda.

if it's from a Christian, jew, atheist or a person who doesn't say anything about it this way or that - it's not credible information.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Marocc

[DogOnPorch]

Good gravy, you could park an 18 wheeler on that fallacy.

[Marocc]

7 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

You're free to lie to the Kafir...you know that.

Your words aren't proof...just saying.

Nor do I need you to understand Islam.

I have a problem with any belief system that looks like Treblinka for the Unbeliever. That you do not makes you my opponent.

It's the Qur'an that was quoted back then twice for you. You interpret it literally right, because it makes no sense? I mean, because that's the way it's 'supposed to be' despite 3:7.

Your literal interpretation fails, again.

 

Wasn't that a little hypocritical?

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by Marocc

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Marocc said:

It's the Qur'an that was quoted back then twice for you. You interpret it literary right, because it makes no sense? I mean, because that's the way it's 'supposed to be' despite 3:7.

Your literal interpretation fails, again.

 

Wasn't that a little hypocritical?

 

 

You're allowed to lie to further your fascist religion. I expect nothing less.

No "experts" are needed to understand Islam...least of all you.

 

[Marocc]

3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Good gravy, you could park an 18 wheeler on that fallacy.

If you can't refute it you can just pretend you didn't see it or copy past from thereligionofpeace. I don't mind.

[Marocc]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

 

You're allowed to lie to further your fascist religion. I expect nothing less.

No "experts" are needed to understand Islam...least of all you.

 

You forgot you already said that.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Marocc said:

If you can't refute it you can just pretend you didn't see it or copy past from thereligionofpeace. I don't mind.

 

If you don't see the fallacy of only accepting the pro-Islamic commentary on Islam...I can't help you. 

[Marocc]

3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

If you don't see the fallacy of only accepting the pro-Islamic commentary on Islam...I can't help you. 

It's not pro Islamic. It's just Islamic.

The Qur'an says none may touch it but those who are pure.

[scribblet]

As Salim Mansur who was rejected by the CPC as a candidate for being a moderate Muslim:

Canada is at a crossroads. The twin forces of globalism and Islamism will unalterably change the culture and politics of our beloved Canada.

The damage that Justin Trudeau and the Liberal Party have already done cries out for reversal. By disallowing my candidacy the Conservative party has indicated it will not even address the fundamental challenge Canadians face that globalism and Islamism together represents to us, and our children, during the 2019 election.

https://www.salimmansur.ca/statement

[Goddess]

37 minutes ago, Marocc said:

The Qur'an prescribes no earthly punishment for apostasy alone.

Then why are there fatwas issued calling for the deaths of specific people deemed apostates of Islam?

A fatwa is a legal pronouncement in Islam, which is a fixed precedence in accordance with Islamic law.  My understanding is that fatwas are optional for individual Muslims to respect or not -thus making murdering apostates of Islam an option for any Muslim who wishes to act upon it. This is why  those who have left Islam often need bodyguards and why so many fear for their lives after leaving the religion and why many pretend to still believe when they really do not.

So when you say there is "no earthly punishment for apostasy in Islam" - you are either grossly misinformed or deliberately lying.

[scribblet]

The Quran does address apostasy     Religion of Peace.com 

 Quran (4:89) - "They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected (Faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Auliya' (protectors or friends) from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allah (to Muhammad). But if they turn back (from Islam), take (hold) of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither Auliya' (protectors or friends) nor helpers from them."   Verse 4:65 says that those who have faith are in "full submission" to Muhammad's teachings.  This verse explains what should happen to Muslims who do not "have faith" and (along with verses 90-91) do not agree to banishment and subjugation.  (See the "Why They are Wrong" section of this response to apologists for a deeper analysis).

Quran (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

Other verses that seem to support the many Hadith that establish the death sentence for apostates are Quran verses 2:217, 9:73-74, 88:21, 5:54, 9:66.

[Marocc]

17 minutes ago, scribblet said:

As Salim Mansur who was rejected by the CPC as a candidate for being a moderate Muslim:

Canada is at a crossroads. The twin forces of globalism and Islamism will unalterably change the culture and politics of our beloved Canada.

The damage that Justin Trudeau and the Liberal Party have already done cries out for reversal. By disallowing my candidacy the Conservative party has indicated it will not even address the fundamental challenge Canadians face that globalism and Islamism together represents to us, and our children, during the 2019 election.

https://www.salimmansur.ca/statement

"moderate Muslim"

Let's see

- wants to prevent Muslims from immigrating to Canada

-doesn't "believe' in global warming

-Pro-Israel

 

[Marocc]

21 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Then why are there fatwas issued calling for the deaths of specific people deemed apostates of Islam?

A fatwa is a legal pronouncement in Islam, which is a fixed precedence in accordance with Islamic law.  My understanding is that fatwas are optional for individual Muslims to respect or not -thus making murdering apostates of Islam an option for any Muslim who wishes to act upon it. This is why  those who have left Islam often need bodyguards and why so many fear for their lives after leaving the religion and why many pretend to still believe when they really do not.

So when you say there is "no earthly punishment for apostasy in Islam" - you are either grossly misinformed or deliberately lying.

Because they are a threat to the Ummah. Treason.

No. That's not how it works.

Excuse me, you're cutting a sentence again to significantly change its meaning.

[Marocc]

23 minutes ago, scribblet said:

The Quran does address apostasy     Religion of Peace.com 

 Quran (4:89) - "They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected (Faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Auliya' (protectors or friends) from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allah (to Muhammad). But if they turn back (from Islam), take (hold) of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither Auliya' (protectors or friends) nor helpers from them."   Verse 4:65 says that those who have faith are in "full submission" to Muhammad's teachings.  This verse explains what should happen to Muslims who do not "have faith" and (along with verses 90-91) do not agree to banishment and subjugation.  (See the "Why They are Wrong" section of this response to apologists for a deeper analysis).

Quran (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

Other verses that seem to support the many Hadith that establish the death sentence for apostates are Quran verses 2:217, 9:73-74, 88:21, 5:54, 9:66.

Can't explain it with your own words means you can't understand it. I already refuted part of this and the added part is more lies.

I'm not gonna spend time refuting thereligionofpeace to deaf ears.

[GostHacked]

59 minutes ago, Marocc said:

 

Elaborate.

I can't really. Both DoP,  Argus and I can tell you that Saudi Arabia is a huge proponent of Wahhabism style Islam. I understand there can be a lot of fake news online, but their way of things pre-date what we call the modern Internet, meaning that shit is set in stone bro.