This week in Islam

[DogOnPorch]

12 minutes ago, Marocc said:

.....not a verse....

 

47/4

It figures I know the Quran better than you.

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by DogOnPorch

[Marocc]

27 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

47/4

It figures I know the Quran better than you.

 

I meant to emphathize that there is no verse that would make me feel uncomfortable. Of course I'm not sure who you're trying to trigger. Just saying.

[Argus]

Man is on trial here for kidnapping his daughter and sending her back to Iraq to grow up so she'll learn to properly respect her father and not have sex with Canadians and be a whore. I hear an awful lot of young Muslim kids, especially girls get sent home quite legally for this very same reason. My neighbour among them. Their pious Muslim families think Canada's culture and values or so low that all the girls here are whores and boys will become immoral and embrace western ways.

Their parents don't want to see any kind of assimilation. They want to remain distinctly foreign in this country.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/crime/dad-charged-with-kidnapping-daughter-said-she-would-be-better-off-in-iraq-than-canada

[Marocc]

Quite legally Good for them.

[Argus]

4 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Quite legally Good for them.

Yes, the problem is they return.

[Infidel Dog]

8 minutes ago, Argus said:

Yes, the problem is they return.

More often than we'd like to admit, the girls return without a clitoris. 

[Marocc]

22 minutes ago, Argus said:

Yes, the problem is they return.

Why, you don't like good citizens? Is there something about good, decent and useful people, that you just can't endure?

[Marocc]

14 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

More often than we'd like to admit, the girls return without a clitoris. 

I hope you have other concerns for the women than just their sexual organs and the way they dress in public?

[DogOnPorch]

16 minutes ago, Marocc said:

I hope you have other concerns for the women than just their sexual organs and the way they dress in public?

 

It would seem Muslims are the ones concerned how women dress and that they possess sexual organs.

[Infidel Dog]

5 hours ago, bcsapper said:

You mean apart from the fact that both are capable of doing barbaric things to people who don't deserve it?

Nothing whatsoever.  Why?

 

Yes, apart from that. You'd like to 'whatabout' religions offering up what you see as similarities in religious excess, thinking that allows you to ignore how they're different.

You give an example of a state where abortion is illegal and treated in the law as murder. Within that system a miscarriage was allegedly mistaken for abortion and a woman did time for murder.

But that was not a religious law. It may have reflected the 80 some odd percent Catholic Culture but El Salvador is not a theocracy. It's a democratic republic.

When women who report they've been raped in an Islamic country who's legal system is run on the religious system of Sharia and they are themselves jailed for being immoral that's a religious law written into the law from the Quran.

If you twist and spin them about you can find similar bits in the teachings of Mohammed and Christ but - as already mentioned - one was a slaving, murdering, thieving, warlord who banged a nine year old and the other was pretty much just a hippy.

You can find excesses written into the Bible or the Quran but the examples of those excesses making their way into contemporary life are more often blatant and egregious in Islam. 

For example take the Quranic verse 9.29

Quote

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
 

Three things are embedded in that verse - the Islamic tax on unbelievers called Jizya, enmity for the unbeliever (or Dhimmi) and the order to move always towards the non-Muslim's subjugation through unequal treatment. 

And we see how these religious demands make their way into contemporary society in a way that can be blatant, outrageous and egregious to the Western mind.

Here are some examples:

https://www.jihadwatch.org/tag/jizya

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

 

Here are some examples:

https://www.jihadwatch.org/tag/jizya

 

 

There are hidden Jizya most are unaware of. One is the Halal Certification racket...all pay at the checkout to have food certified "Clean"....stores often find it easier to do mass Halal certification...plus the removal certain products that might offend Islam...rather than to make a Halal section where just Muslims pay for said certification.

Kosher certification is handled differently as food is generally labeled so and kept in the Kosher section...Jews pay.

[Argus]

34 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Why, you don't like good citizens? Is there something about good, decent and useful people, that you just can't endure?

They're not Canadian. If they were sent back to another country to be raised there they should stay there. We have too many foreigners in Canada as it is. In fact, the father should be deported, too and his Canadian citizenship removed, presuming he has it.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Argus said:

They're not Canadian. If they were sent back to another country to be raised there they should stay there. We have too many foreigners in Canada as it is. In fact, the father should be deported, too and his Canadian citizenship removed, presuming he has it.

 

I believe yours and my job in all this is to shut-up and feel one's self subdued...as per the Quran.

[Marocc]

36 minutes ago, Argus said:

They're not Canadian. If they were sent back to another country to be raised there they should stay there. We have too many foreigners in Canada as it is. In fact, the father should be deported, too and his Canadian citizenship removed, presuming he has it.

Born in Canada — Canadian, no? Most of them certainly are. Moving away for a number of years, doesn't take away citizenship.

the truth is, it is the only sensible thing to do. One cannot (it would be difficult to) raise a child in an Islamic way in a western society.

Your view is, the worse a Muslim, the better Canadian! But the truth is, the better a Muslim the better a human being. It seems you don't know what it means to be a good human being. Such is the state of Canada, huh?

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Marocc said:

Born in Canada — Canadian, no? Most of them certainly are. Moving away for a number of years, doesn't take away citizenship.

Canada needs to change its citizenship laws just like Europe did. Citizenship should only go through parents.

Quote

the truth is, it is the only sensible thing to do. One cannot (it would be difficult to) raise a child in an Islamic way in a western society.

Then they should not be coming here. I guess this means you believe we should ban all further immigration from Muslims, right?

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Argus

[Infidel Dog]

12 hours ago, Marocc said:

Did no one comment at all on the Charlie Hebdo magazine? Really you people have been distracted. Now who will inform the world? Who will defend Canada? Who will protect your liberty??!

I just heard about it. But always happy to help. Here ya go:

Paris attack: Stabbing near Charlie Hebdo office 'an act of terror'

Quote

A stabbing in Paris that left two people seriously injured is being treated as a terror attack, the French interior minister has said.

Gérald Darmanin said the attack near the former office of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo was "clearly an act of Islamist terrorism".

An eighteen-year-old man of Pakistani origin described as the main suspect was arrested near the scene.

Six other people are in custody and are being questioned, police said.

The victims - a man and a woman who worked at a TV production company - were seriously injured by a machete-type weapon, police said. Prime Minister Jean Castex told reporters at the scene - near the Boulevard Richard-Lenoir - that their lives were not in danger.

The attack came as a high-profile trial was under way of 14 people accused of helping two jihadists carry out the 2015 attack on Charlie Hebdo, in which 12 people were killed.

 

[Guest]

22 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Yes, apart from that. You'd like to 'whatabout' religions offering up what you see as similarities in religious excess, thinking that allows you to ignore how they're different.

You give an example of a state where abortion is illegal and treated in the law as murder. Within that system a miscarriage was allegedly mistaken for abortion and a woman did time for murder.

But that was not a religious law. It may have reflected the 80 some odd percent Catholic Culture but El Salvador is not a theocracy. It's a democratic republic.

When women who report they've been raped in an Islamic country who's legal system is run on the religious system of Sharia and they are themselves jailed for being immoral that's a religious law written into the law from the Quran.

If you twist and spin them about you can find similar bits in the teachings of Mohammed and Christ but - as already mentioned - one was a slaving, murdering, thieving, warlord who banged a nine year old and the other was pretty much just a hippy.

You can find excesses written into the Bible or the Quran but the examples of those excesses making their way into contemporary life are more often blatant and egregious in Islam. 

For example take the Quranic verse 9.29

Three things are embedded in that verse - the Islamic tax on unbelievers called Jizya, enmity for the unbeliever (or Dhimmi) and the order to move always towards the non-Muslim's subjugation through unequal treatment. 

And we see how these religious demands make their way into contemporary society in a way that can be blatant, outrageous and egregious to the Western mind.

Here are some examples:

https://www.jihadwatch.org/tag/jizya

 

Yes, I've stated many times that of all the religions that try to force other people to do their bidding, Islam is the worst.  (The others can be pretty bad, but no real comparison can be made)

You're seeing things that aren't there.  I used the El Salvador example to try and convince someone who seems to think Islam is above criticism. 

Of course, maybe you think jailing women for having an abortion is a good idea.  In which case, you're just as bad.

Edited September 26, 2020 by bcsapper

[Guest]

I'll get used to this new look eventually...

Edited September 26, 2020 by bcsapper

[Infidel Dog]

2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Yes, I've stated many times that of all the religions that try to force other people to do their bidding, Islam is the worst. 

That's why we of the more developed western nations have a thing called separation of church and state.

You know? "The more developed western nations," or what Marocc figures Muslims need to sneak off from to find an Islamic theocracy where they can break the odd law then scamper back to the West when their pubescent or pre-pubescent daughter has been married off or deprived of her clitoris.

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Guest]

 

11 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

That's why we of the more developed western nations have a thing called separation of church and state.

You know? "The more developed western nations," or what Marocc figures Muslims need to sneak off from to find an Islamic theocracy where they can break the odd law then scamper back to the West when their pubescent or pre-pubescent daughter has been married off or deprived of her clitoris.

 

Actually, it doesn't take a theocracy.  Pakistan, for instance,  purports to be a democracy.  Enough of one that they managed to elect a celebrity as Prime Minister.  Doesn't matter.  You can still get killed for an opinion, or even basic human needs.

Separation of church and state is a great idea, but it's a sliding scale.  I would like to see it absolute, of course, but as we are about to see in the US, it's not an easy thing to maintain in the face of fundamentalist religious pressure.

Edited September 26, 2020 by bcsapper

[Infidel Dog]

You're quibbling over terms. Sharia law is the larger problem. An Islamic theocracy is just an easy to present arena where you can see some problems with it. Sharia can even be a small problem when it's influence burrows into western developed countries like it can do in the Islamic enclaves of Europe.

Edited September 26, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

You're quibbling over terms. Sharia law is the larger problem. An Islamic theocracy is just an easy to present arena where you can see some problems with it. Sharia can even be a small problem when it's influence burrows into western developed countries like it can do in the Islamic enclaves of Europe.

I'm not quibbling at all.  You said nothing there that I disagree with.

[Infidel Dog]

Good. Then can we also agree there are things in Islam worth critiquing in hopes of preventing their incursion into western developed society.

Can we look at a place like Lebanon back when Beirut was considered the "Paris of the Mediterranean" (back before the Islamic incursion into Paris and it was considered an exemplary display of a western developed society), Lebanon opened its doors to Islam and and now it's not so nice or developed. And this problem of opening the doors to the follower of Mohammed goes back to the time the Jews of Medina welcomed Mohammed after he was thrown out of Mecca.

Can we look at the problems coming out of the Islamic enclaves (no-go zones) of Europe and say let's not do that over here? Are we allowed to notice the elevated rape stats in Islamic demographics and notice Mohammed endorsed the sexual domination of something he called 'what the right hand possesses."

There's a lot Mohammed wanted for his followers that we wouldn't want for a western developed world. Are we allowed to notice that?

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Good. Then can we also agree there are things in Islam worth critiquing in hopes of preventing their incursion into western developed society.

Can we look at a place like Lebanon back when Beirut was considered the "Paris of the Mediterranean" (back before the Islamic incursion into Paris and it was considered an exemplary display of a western developed society), Lebanon opened its doors to Islam and and now it's not so nice or developed. And this problem of opening the doors to the follower of Mohammed goes back to the time the Jews of Medina welcomed Mohammed after he was thrown out of Mecca.

Can we look at the problems coming out of the Islamic enclaves (no-go zones) of Europe and say let's not do that over here? Are we allowed to notice the elevated rape stats in Islamic demographics and notice Mohammed endorsed the sexual domination of something he called 'what the right hand possesses."

There's a lot Mohammed wanted for his followers that we wouldn't want for a western developed world. Are we allowed to notice that?

 

You can certainly notice, and bring to our attention, anything you want.  As someone who grew up in the north of England, I need no reminding of what can happen when Islamic culture mixes with both liberal western mores, and liberal western fears.

That said, I reiterate the point I made earlier about Muslims and their views.  I've never judged anyone on what they are.  Just what they do, and think.

[Infidel Dog]

3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

That said, I reiterate the point I made earlier about Muslims and their views.  I've never judged anyone on what they are.  Just what they do, and think.

As do I and I don't approve of following the words, deeds or inspiration of the warlord Mohammed and have no problem being critical of those who do.