WWWTT Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 It was a farce. They had a vote forced on them by the Russians. The only options were independence or joining Russia. The Ukrainians boycotted the vote because of that. If Russia really wanted a democratic vote they would have put staying with Ukraine on the ballot. They likely would have still won with 55%+ but that was not enough for Putin because he did not want to risk losing the vote. What is means that despite the pretense of a vote it was still an annexation by military force. I don't see how anyone can sit back and say that is OK. I can understand arguments that we could not do anything about it but it is definitely not OK. Sorry but the fascist anti Jewish government of the Ukraine was not democratically elected. Sounds like the Russians did exactly what was necessary from this issue further escalating. If I was a conservative, I would be more concerned with Harper being the first western leader to visit the anti Jewish leaders in Kiev! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
WWWTT Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 Agreed. I don't think Putin is Hitler by any stretch of the imagination but his tactics in Ukraine have been nearly identical to Hitler's in Austria and Czechoslovakia. One wonders how far they will extend regarding other former Soviet Republics. Here's a link to help describe what you are writing http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEViAt.jFTZjQAjwoXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByMG04Z2o2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=1/RE=1395870638/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fen.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fAnschluss/RS=%5EADAM8TDV6wwvBPOhZ2zktWZ1qXMDkg- If I was the PM (Harper), I wouldn't be so quick to get involved in taking sides! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Wilber Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 Here's a link to help describe what you are writing http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEViAt.jFTZjQAjwoXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByMG04Z2o2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=1/RE=1395870638/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fen.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fAnschluss/RS=%5EADAM8TDV6wwvBPOhZ2zktWZ1qXMDkg- If I was the PM (Harper), I wouldn't be so quick to get involved in taking sides! WWWTT Please provide the link WWWTT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Wilber Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 Please provide the link WWWTT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
On Guard for Thee Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 Not only was the ballot "loaded" apparently so where the weapons of the thousands of russian troops who just happenned to be in town for the so called referendum. No intimidation there! Quote
TimG Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) Sorry but the fascist anti Jewish government of the Ukraine was not democratically elected.What does that have to do with anything? The issue at hand is the Russian military annexation of Crimea covered up by a sham referendum. You can either support the use of force to expand borders or you can reject it. I reject it. Of course, you do seem to be generally hostile to democracy given your repeated defense of actions by leaders of undemocratic countries. Edited March 25, 2014 by TimG Quote
WWWTT Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea Thank you WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
WWWTT Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 Not only was the ballot "loaded" apparently so where the weapons of the thousands of russian troops who just happenned to be in town for the so called referendum. No intimidation there! And how is the show of force different from the G8 summit in Toronto? The whole area has been a powder keg for some months now. Problem has been resolved, time to move on. Want to solve their problems? Go live there and put into practice what you preach! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
WWWTT Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 What does that have to do with anything? The issue at hand is the Russian military annexation of Crimea covered up by a sham referendum. You can either support the use of force to expand borders or you can reject it. I reject it. Of course, you do seem to be generally hostile to democracy given your repeated defense of actions by leaders of undemocratic countries. And you support the fascist unelected government of the Ukraine?!?!?! Just wait until the Jewish people start fleeing from there with horror stories! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
TimG Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) And you support the fascist unelected government of the UkraineI have no opinion on Russian propaganda and whether it has merit or not is irrelevant to the question. The fact is Russians annexed Crimea in violation of international norms. Canada could simply accept that international norms are no longer important or it can protest in whatever modest ways it can. Edited March 25, 2014 by TimG Quote
Shady Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 I believe that looking at world disagreements and conflicts in a "win" or "lose" situation atmosphere is dangerous. Conflicts are resolved without violence only when all participants are winners. It is very easy to start wars or promote violent means for a resolution to disagreement. That's a great bumper stick slogan, but it's not achored in reality. That's the problem lately, especially with American foreign policy, it's being based on fantasy instead of reality. Quote
Shady Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 And you support the fascist unelected government of the Ukraine?!?!?! Just wait until the Jewish people start fleeing from there with horror stories! WWWTT Are you support the former Russian puppet? Over thrown by the people of Ukraine? The man who intentionally gutted their military as to make Russian intervention even easier? I forget, are you pro-human rights or not? If not, you'd love Russian rule! Quote
WWWTT Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 I have no opinion on Russian propaganda and whether it has merit or not is irrelevant to the question. The fact is Russians annexed Crimea in violation of international norms. Canada could simply accept that international norms are no longer important or it can protest in whatever modest ways it can. That's not what happened at all. Russia made sure that their citizens were protected. The people of Crimea had their say and it's all over now. Russia put an end to anymore of their citizens getting killed by a western backed coup. Too bad you don't like the fact that Russia is the good guy here. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
TimG Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) Russia made sure that their citizens were protected.More excuses. There was never any evidence of danger. The people of Crimea had their say and it's all over now.The referendum was a farce that did not include staying with the Ukraine as an option. It has no moral legitimacy. If the people of Crimea want their say then Russian troops need to withdraw and new referendum needs to held that includes staying with Ukraine as an option and under the supervision of the UN. Too bad you don't like the fact that Russia is the good guy here.ROTFL. I heard many completely delusional statements on this forum but this takes the cake. Edited March 25, 2014 by TimG Quote
WWWTT Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 Are you support the former Russian puppet? Over thrown by the people of Ukraine? The man who intentionally gutted their military as to make Russian intervention even easier? I forget, are you pro-human rights or not? If not, you'd love Russian rule! You could be right Shady! But the way I see it, that's a screwed up place in the world and I wish them the best of luck! And Russia just made things a little more settled down! To bad a fascist anti Jewish party took advantage of the circumstance. Supporting them is not right and only makes human rights there worse. Next time Harper is in Israel, he's going to feel real uncomfortable! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
WWWTT Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 More excuses. There was never any evidence of danger. The referendum was a farce that did not include staying with the Ukraine as an option. It has no moral legitimacy. If the people of Crimea want their say then Russian troops need to withdrawn an new referendum needs to held that includes staying with Ukraine as an option and under the supervision of the UN. ROTFL. I heard many completely delusional statements on this forum but this takes the cake. You sound like a sore looser! The crisis required immediate action, and the end of violence. But you seem to be Ok with other people dying. The UN seems to agree with Russia here on this one. http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVim_FjJTuhoAt5MXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBybnV2cXQwBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=1/RE=1395877951/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.turkishweekly.net%2fnews%2f164797%2frussia-gathering-facts-on-violence-nationalists-in-ukraine.html/RS=%5EADAc0ErYediUIsUcS_tVeICdnOfD50- Are you saying that Ban Ki-moon is making delusional statements????? Ok if you say so buddy. Ever thought of about starting to back up your opinion now? WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
TimG Posted March 26, 2014 Report Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) The UN seems to agree with Russia here on this one.The UN does not believe that the Russian annexation was justified. All that was said: "the legitimate concerns that Russia and President Putin has, particularly in terms of human rights protection and of those Russian-speaking people and Russian minorities." Such concerns could be addressed without an invasion. I am simply amazed that you are so credulous to accept the Russian propaganda as factual. You would have more credibility if you did not believe everything that Russians say. Edited March 26, 2014 by TimG Quote
WWWTT Posted March 26, 2014 Report Posted March 26, 2014 The UN does not believe that the Russian annexation was justified. All that was said: "the legitimate concerns that Russia and President Putin has, particularly in terms of human rights protection and of those Russian-speaking people and Russian minorities." Such concerns could be addressed without an invasion. I am simply amazed that you are so credulous to accept the Russian propaganda as factual. You would have more credibility if you did not believe everything that Russians say. Still waiting for some kind of link from you to back up any of your claims. http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVvRGHTJT6SEAv2AXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBybnV2cXQwBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=1/RE=1395879622/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fvoiceofrussia.com%2fnews%2f2014_03_20%2fBan-Ki-moon-shares-Moscow-s-concern-over-rights-of-Russian-speakers-in-Ukraine-2080%2f/RS=%5EADAAe1KmV1WQCeNbBw.HmTCz918zNk- Don't expect anything from the west to have any insight. Regardless, the violence for now seems to be over, so as far as I'm concerned, everything has been resolved. Oh ya, except for the fact that there is an anti Jewish fascist government in power in the Ukraine! The first time since WWII has their been a nazi political party in power in Europe! And you think that is some kind of accomplishment?!?!?!?! Like I written before, Harper is going to be real uncomfortable when he visits Israel! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
TimG Posted March 26, 2014 Report Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) Still waiting for some kind of link from you to back up any of your claims.You have not actually disputed my claims. I said the referendum is was a farce because it did not include staying with Ukraine as an option. This is a fact that you cannot refute. I am saying that Russians are spreading propaganda to support their claims and anyone who blindly believes it all is credulous fool. This should be a self evident truth for anyone familiar with how propaganda is used in these kinds of conflicts. Edited March 26, 2014 by TimG Quote
WWWTT Posted March 26, 2014 Report Posted March 26, 2014 Just saw on CCTV 4 that a past president from the Ukraine wants to kill the 8 million Russians living in the Ukraine and invade Russia and kill Putin! This is who http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVvazIDJT4CcAtXMXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByMG04Z2o2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=1/RE=1395880499/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fen.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fYulia_Tymoshenko/RS=%5EADAzaoK5Wzw2TWPWOYnbaOr7I09jKI- It was a recording of her with another man where she made the comments. CCTV played it, but censored her potty mouth! I have not found the link yet to back this up but will post when it becomes available! Starting to look more and more that Russia is legit! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
TimG Posted March 26, 2014 Report Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) Just saw on CCTV 4 that a past president from the Ukraine wants to kill the 8 million Russians living in the Ukraine and invade Russia and kill Putin!Get back to us when you have a credible source. Edited March 26, 2014 by TimG Quote
WWWTT Posted March 26, 2014 Report Posted March 26, 2014 You have not actually disputed my claims. I said the referendum is was a farce because it did not include staying with Ukraine as an option. This is a fact that you cannot refute. I am saying that Russians are spreading propaganda to support their claims and anyone who blindly believes it all is credulous fool. This should be a self evident truth. Actually I was making my way to this point! Thanks for reminding me! A referendum was needed ASAP to end the violence. Two clear choices. And as an independent state, they could renegotiate their constitutional agreement with the Ukraine, if they choose to do so at a later date. Do you seriously believe that a detailed referendum on constitutional independence and direction can be drafted and voted upon on such a short notice as the dire circumstance required? I believe that the resolution to the violence has many in the west pissed off. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
TimG Posted March 26, 2014 Report Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) And as an independent state, they could renegotiate their constitutional agreement with the Ukraine, if they choose to do so at a later date.More pathetic Russian propaganda. A fair referendum would have included staying with Ukraine on the ballot. It was left off because the Russians were afraid of losing. A referendum has no democratic legitimacy when the question is imposed while under Russian occupation. As for complexity: what is complex about "status quo" or "join with Russia"? Edited March 26, 2014 by TimG Quote
WWWTT Posted March 26, 2014 Report Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) Get back to us when you have a credible source. Oh don't worry, this just got out so give it a bit of time. In the meantime hears a little on the Madonna from Ukraine, she just got out of jail! http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVvjNJDJT8WQAbSIXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByZDBpbXI5BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=1/RE=1395881550/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.kyivpost.com%2fhot%2fyulia-tymoshenko%2f/RS=%5EADAD1VPY3304ci9u8RdynlokXF04Xk- WWWTT Edited March 26, 2014 by WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
WWWTT Posted March 26, 2014 Report Posted March 26, 2014 More pathetic Russian propaganda. A fair referendum would have included staying with Ukraine on the ballot. It was left off because the Russians were afraid of losing. A referendum has no democratic legitimacy when the question is imposed while under Russian occupation. As for complexity: what is complex about "status quo" or "join with Russia"? Like I said to Shady before, that's a screwed up place in the world and they need to solve their problems on their own. If you want to help, go move there and start doing something! I'm more concerned with how Harper is going to explain this one to Israel after becoming the first western leader to visit the anti Jewish unelected nazi Ukraine government! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
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