BC Teachers Getting Screwed...Again

[Michael Hardner]

This discussion needs to be about the ideas, and not about the individuals.

Let's keep it about the debate here.

[socialist]

Here is the latest offer by the BC neo-liberal government.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-teachers-to-be-offered-6-year-term-on-new-contract-1.2644587

It's a six year deal. However, many obstacles remain. It's better than the ridiculous 10 year deal the government earlier proposed. The government still has a long way to go before the BCTF agrees.

[socialist]

Regardless of what poll I see, a majority of the public are on the side of the BCTF and teachers. It's good to see the BC public is also getting fed up with neo-liberal policies.

http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1024/798/original.jpg?w=600&h

[bleeding heart]

Pct2017:

So you prefer that a poster whom you consider emblematic of your concerns is real...because you'd rather be proven correct about your opinions than not?

I should think you'd be happy to be proven wrong....as a principled stance.

Also, I doubt that most people "dislike teachers" as much as you do.

[socialist]

Pct2017:

So you prefer that a poster whom you consider emblematic of your concerns is real...because you'd rather be proven correct about your opinions than not?

I should think you'd be happy to be proven wrong....as a principled stance.

Also, I doubt that most people "dislike teachers" as much as you do.

There as a very small but large mouthed continent of teacher bashers like PCT. 95% of the public value public education.

[Bryan]

This discussion needs to be about the ideas, and not about the individuals.

Let's keep it about the debate here.

That's the problem. If the individual is just trolling, the debate is a waste of time. If the individual is not legitimate, neither are the ideas.

[Pct2017]

Pct2017:

So you prefer that a poster whom you consider emblematic of your concerns is real...because you'd rather be proven correct about your opinions than not?

I should think you'd be happy to be proven wrong....as a principled stance.

Also, I doubt that most people "dislike teachers" as much as you do.

Huh?

I have read your post a few times, and for the life of me I don't get what your point is. I mean, if Socialist is really a teacher (and there are openings in the pool if you want to join - teenager, troll and a figment of another posters imagination are taken), then he/she represents everything that is bad about teachers and their unions. If he/she is just pretending, then it does dilute the opinions that he/she states to those of someone who merely surfs the web to obtain info and then parrots that info.

Believe it or not, it is very likely a small minority of teachers that screw up the image of the entire body, but that small minority are the ones who put their names up for nomination in the teachers unions like the BCTF, and they then become the face for all teachers. Maybe this is wrong, but until the rest of the teachers wake up and realize that they are being sullied by the likes of Socialist, then they have to live with the reputation presented on their behalf by the unions. And that is one of greed, entitlement and laze. Fair? Probably not, but it is their choice to not make the changes necessary to regain some form of dignity in their vocation. Maybe they could even be regarded as a profession again one day, but in BC, today is not the day.

[Pct2017]

There as a very small but large mouthed continent of teacher bashers like PCT. 95% of the public value public education.

Which continent is considered to have the largest mouth?

[socialist]

Huh?

I have read your post a few times, and for the life of me I don't get what your point is. I mean, if Socialist is really a teacher (and there are openings in the pool if you want to join - teenager, troll and a figment of another posters imagination are taken), then he/she represents everything that is bad about teachers and their unions. If he/she is just pretending, then it does dilute the opinions that he/she states to those of someone who merely surfs the web to obtain info and then parrots that info.

Believe it or not, it is very likely a small minority of teachers that screw up the image of the entire body, but that small minority are the ones who put their names up for nomination in the teachers unions like the BCTF, and they then become the face for all teachers. Maybe this is wrong, but until the rest of the teachers wake up and realize that they are being sullied by the likes of Socialist, then they have to live with the reputation presented on their behalf by the unions. And that is one of greed, entitlement and laze. Fair? Probably not, but it is their choice to not make the changes necessary to regain some form of dignity in their vocation. Maybe they could even be regarded as a profession again one day, but in BC, today is not the day.

Many teachers I know spend 100s of hours volunteering to coach sports and run clubs. We don't get extra pay.

[Guest]

I'm surprised your union allows it. When I was in the BCGEU they were constantly trying to stop me from doing unpaid work. That's why I'm so much happier in my non union job.

[Bryan]

Many teachers I know spend 100s of hours volunteering to coach sports and run clubs. We don't get extra pay.

Many non-teachers I know spend 100s of hours volunteering to coach sports and run clubs. They don't get extra pay.

Of all of the extra-curricular activities and sports my children have been involved in, a very small minority of the adult volunteers were actually teachers. It's almost always parents. The only time we ever got a teacher as a coach was when one of the parents was also a teacher.

[Pct2017]

Pct2017:

I should think you'd be happy to be proven wrong....as a principled stance.

Bleeding Heart, it has happened. Young Socialist has just posted the revelation that when teachers volunteer, they do not get paid. For the love of humanity, I had no idea that they had to endure such hardships. I know that when I volunteer in the community where I live, I expect to be paid handsomely. That is, after all, why we volunteer is it not? If only I had known that the poor, suffering teachers were not being paid for volunteering, I would have been in their corner years ago. Bless their hearts, the teachers have suffered and endured so selflessly, how could I have not seen how wrong I was about them up until now.

I am going to lead a rally that hopefully will be the start of the end of teachers not being paid when they volunteer.

[socialist]

Bleeding Heart, it has happened. Young Socialist has just posted the revelation that when teachers volunteer, they do not get paid. For the love of humanity, I had no idea that they had to endure such hardships. I know that when I volunteer in the community where I live, I expect to be paid handsomely. That is, after all, why we volunteer is it not? If only I had known that the poor, suffering teachers were not being paid for volunteering, I would have been in their corner years ago. Bless their hearts, the teachers have suffered and endured so selflessly, how could I have not seen how wrong I was about them up until now.

I am going to lead a rally that hopefully will be the start of the end of teachers not being paid when they volunteer.

You fail to understand through your immature sarcasm. We are expected to do hundreds of hours of extras for no extra pay. Teachers should stop coaching and running clubs and organizing field trips, and simply just stay in the classroom teaching. Then the public would maybe understand the hundreds of hours of extra time we put in with no monetary benefit. We do it for the kids.

[Mighty AC]

The actual teaching of students is certainly just small part of the job; however, making a difference (hopefully positive) is what most of us sign on for. Coaching, clubs, PD, extra help, parent communication, endless meetings, reflection - tweaking - reassessing, enrichment, remediation, etc. is just part of the profession. I would rather unions use the millions they collect to advertise and create awareness of all of the services teachers provide, rather than working to rule to make a point. It's the students we care about and they ultimately lose.

Scary, wing-nuts like Tim Hudak would be far less dangerous if the public had a better idea of how the system operates and the importance of educational support workers. It is always a good idea to create efficiency and minimize waste, but what he is proposing will do an immense amount of harm to the quality of education students receive. If he is looking to save money, why not stop the public funding of one religion's separate school system?

[Wayward Son]

If he is looking to save money, why not stop the public funding of one religion's separate school system?

Hudak's goal is to win the race to the bottom. Remaking the province into a non-union, low wage, corporate paradise. Saving money is a secondary consideration.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Wayward Son

[GostHacked]

It's certainly an exaggeratd persona that appears more lie a caricature than someone's actual views.

I'd consider that trolling as it would garner only certain types of responses anyways. As proven.

[socialist]

Which continent is considered to have the largest mouth?

Another example of the public getting fed up with the neo-liberal government and their attack on education. You are on the wrong side, PCT.

http://m.kelownadailycourier.ca/opinion/letters_to_editor/article_ea1cdc2a-d7df-11e3-97cd-001a4bcf6878.html?mode=jqm#.U3rjLA2VqLc.twitter

[Pct2017]

Another example of the public getting fed up with the neo-liberal government and their attack on education. You are on the wrong side, PCT.

http://m.kelownadailycourier.ca/opinion/letters_to_editor/article_ea1cdc2a-d7df-11e3-97cd-001a4bcf6878.html?mode=jqm#.U3rjLA2VqLc.twitter

You really are about the dullest knife in any drawer, are you not. As someone else stated about you previously, do you ever read the websites that you post? You state that this letter to the editor is a fine example of the "public" wanting the government to change it's philosophy regarding public education. Well there Plink, the letter was written by a teacher. Gee, that is such a fine example of the unbiased "public" is it not.

[Michael Hardner]

You really are about the dullest knife in any drawer, are you not.

PCT - I have already posted on this thread about playing the argument, not the person. Please refrain from insults, thank you.

[socialist]

The BC neo liberal government is forcing the BCTF to escalate job action. With public support strongly in favour of the BCTF, you have to wonder why the neo-libs are doing this.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1342109/watch-live-b-c-teachers-federation-to-announce-the-next-step-in-job-action/

[overthere]

BC teachers want 16% over four years, plus plenty more.

Inflation around 2% per annum, salary demands are double that.

Seems fair.

[socialist]

BC teachers want 16% over four years, plus plenty more.

Inflation around 2% per annum, salary demands are double that.

Seems fair.

It's a decent start. But when you are among the lowest paid teachers in Canada, 16% over 4 years may not be enough. The neo-libs are also avoiding the class size issue.

[socialist]

You really are about the dullest knife in any drawer, are you not. As someone else stated about you previously, do you ever read the websites that you post? You state that this letter to the editor is a fine example of the "public" wanting the government to change it's philosophy regarding public education. Well there Plink, the letter was written by a teacher. Gee, that is such a fine example of the unbiased "public" is it not.

Also, I know you dislike facts that don't support your agenda, but here is another fact: Public funding/student. look where BC sits.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlOQ7x_CEAE-bHZ.png:large

[Pct2017]

Here is an interesting fact. In the past six or so months, 14 different collective agreements have been signed between the government of BC and a variety of public sector unions. 115,000 employees have agreed to around 5.5% over five years. To the best of my knowledge, not a single one of them threatened to stamp their feet and throw themselves on the ground in order to get to a settlement. They all emerged with their dignity intact. I could not tell you one name of the various union leaders involved due to the fact that they negotiated out of the press.

And then you have the BCTF.

Another interesting fact is that Jim Sinclair, the head of the BC Fed has been something of a regular visitor to the premier's office as they work together to get more trades seats going in the province.

Then, there was the truckers strike at the Port of Vancouver. Who was it that brokered the deal in that dispute? None other than Christy Clark. And that was not even her turf as it was a fight with the Feds.

Seems like all labour unions and groups are getting along famously with the BC Liberals.

And then you have the BCTF.

[socialist]

Here is an interesting fact. In the past six or so months, 14 different collective agreements have been signed between the government of BC and a variety of public sector unions. 115,000 employees have agreed to around 5.5% over five years. To the best of my knowledge, not a single one of them threatened to stamp their feet and throw themselves on the ground in order to get to a settlement. They all emerged with their dignity intact. I could not tell you one name of the various union leaders involved due to the fact that they negotiated out of the press.

And then you have the BCTF.

Another interesting fact is that Jim Sinclair, the head of the BC Fed has been something of a regular visitor to the premier's office as they work together to get more trades seats going in the province.

Then, there was the truckers strike at the Port of Vancouver. Who was it that brokered the deal in that dispute? None other than Christy Clark. And that was not even her turf as it was a fight with the Feds.

Seems like all labour unions and groups are getting along famously with the BC Liberals.

And then you have the BCTF.

Yes, because the neo-liberals have screwed the teachers of BC in a royal way. Read the court decision for understandin. why did the courts side with the BCTF against the neo-libs? You are ignorant on this situation and it is blatantly obvious.