waldo Posted January 14, 2014 Report Posted January 14, 2014 This most bizarre assumption in this entire topic is the assumption that climate is static unless something "causes" it to change. Chaotic systems change because of internal variability. The only question is where the boundaries of the system are. I have not seen any compelling evidence that shows that the current warming is outside of those bounds (despite the fact that CO2 should, in theory, the be cause of some of the warming). huh! Which incarnation of your ever 'chaotic' opinion is this one... your "in theory... may be the cause of some of the warming"!!! climate responds to internal variability and external forcing. What denier world do you live in that discounts external forcing? Quote
waldo Posted January 14, 2014 Report Posted January 14, 2014 no - but by the by... what do you attribute "30s" warming to? Try..... increased solar activity and lower volcanic activity. If you'd care to dispute this, please step-up, hey! Could that also have been the reason for the MWP? yes... increased (above average) solar radiation and reduced volcanic activity... along with North Atlantic ocean circulation pattern change. Notwithstanding, of course, that the MWP was not global in nature and that the most recent current warming is greater than any warming within the MWP. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted January 14, 2014 Report Posted January 14, 2014 This information surprised even me - thought for sure that more State records would have been set in the last decade - trumpeted as the warmest on record. In fact, there were only two states that tied earlier heat records - but there were also two states that set brand new cold records. State records seem to be a good indicator of "extreme" temperatures because records are set every day, month and year across the thousands of local readings. Have a look - the asterisk denotes that there was an identical record set earlier. It's interesting, isn't it? Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state_temperature_extremes So, I guess if your chart proves that climate change isn't happening in the US, then this chart proves that it is happening globally. Check out all of the records set since 1990. Or maybe neither chart really means anything. Climate change doesn't affect all areas equally. As weather patterns change, some areas may be getting colder as the overall average is getting warmer. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Michael Hardner Posted January 14, 2014 Report Posted January 14, 2014 This most bizarre assumption in this entire topic is the assumption that climate is static unless something "causes" it to change. Chaotic systems change because of internal variability. The only question is where the boundaries of the system are. I have not seen any compelling evidence that shows that the current warming is outside of those bounds (despite the fact that CO2 should, in theory, the be cause of some of the warming). So you admit that there are causes that can drive the chaotic data up or down, though. CO2, solar forcing are known to be such causes so the MWP could easily have been caused by those things. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
TimG Posted January 14, 2014 Report Posted January 14, 2014 So you admit that there are causes that can drive the chaotic data up or down, though. CO2, solar forcing are known to be such causes so the MWP could easily have been caused by those things.You miss my point. External influences do affect the boundaries of chaotic systems but external influences are not required to explain change within a chaotic system. In the case of the earth's climate we don't really know where the boundaries to the system are so we can't know if a given change is "internal" or due to "external" forces. A large part of the warming to date could be purely internal variation and CO2 is only having a small effect. Quote
waldo Posted January 14, 2014 Report Posted January 14, 2014 This most bizarre assumption in this entire topic is the assumption that climate is static unless something "causes" it to change. Chaotic systems change because of internal variability. The only question is where the boundaries of the system are. I have not seen any compelling evidence that shows that the current warming is outside of those bounds (despite the fact that CO2 should, in theory, the be cause of some of the warming). huh! Which incarnation of your ever 'chaotic' opinion is this one... your "in theory... may be the cause of some of the warming"!!! climate responds to internal variability and external forcing. What denier world do you live in that discounts external forcing? You miss my point. External influences do affect the boundaries of chaotic systems but external influences are not required to explain change within a chaotic system. In the case of the earth's climate we don't really know where the boundaries to the system are so we can't know if a given change is "internal" or due to "external" forces. A large part of the warming to date could be purely internal variation and CO2 is only having a small effect. over all these years, as I recall, you've not once broached the subject of the chaos theory to push your continued nonsense concerning warming/climate attribution... and ultimately... your absolute Adapt-R-Us (Only) fixation in responding to increased warming. Have you found a new denier blog? Is there any particular reason this latest gem (you're parrotting) hasn't gained any... legs? as an approximation: fixed boundary focus => earth's topography, orbital parameters and major ice-sheets; policy issue focus => physical atmosphere-ocean & and carbon-vegetation systems . Quote
Shady Posted January 14, 2014 Report Posted January 14, 2014 no - but by the by... what do you attribute "30s" warming to? Try..... increased solar activity and lower volcanic activity. If you'd care to dispute this, please step-up, hey! So have alarmists finally admitted that solar activity matters? Quote
waldo Posted January 14, 2014 Report Posted January 14, 2014 So have alarmists finally admitted that solar activity matters? troll away, lil' buddy! Hey... how come you can post with this nonsense... but you won't answer Bubber's repeated question? Is there a problem... for you? in any case, solar forcing is currently factored in any attribution. Are you prepared to step-up and state it isn't being recognized... and support that statement? Quote
GostHacked Posted January 14, 2014 Report Posted January 14, 2014 The cooling monsoon arrived late so it stayed hot longer. You found that difficult to understand and, by your nature, figured there must be a conspiracy. Horrible writing. I assumed that is what the writer meant, but did not exactly come through clear in the article. Quote
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