Unindicted Co-Conspirator

[August1991]

In Canada, we don't have grand juries and we don't "indict" people. A crown attorney or counsel (de la couronne), after advice from the police, places a charge.

Whether charged or not, part of conspiracy or not, it is hard not to see Stephen Harper as a part of the negociation/conspiracy:

What did the Prime Minister know of this? We cannot yet say with certainty, but the evidence from the RCMP’s trove of recovered emails is strongly suggestive. The key exchanges are on page 33 of the affidavit. “I now have the go-ahead on point three,” Wright reports to Benjamin Perrin and others in the PMO, the Prime Minister’s legal counsel, “with a couple stipulations.” He cautions, “I do want to speak to the PM before everything is considered final.” And, less than an hour later: “We are good to go from the PM once Ben has his confirmation from (Duffy’s lawyer).”

The go-ahead. Speak to the PM. We are good to go. It is hard to read that as anything but an indication that the Prime Minister not only knew, but approved of the deal.

Andrew Coyne

I happen to think that this scandal, one way or another, will bring down Stephen Harper. Maybe Nigel Wright will say something; maybe Duffy will say something even more outrageous and connect outside Ottawa, or maybe the 30% of voters who vote Conservative will decide that Harper is not the best guy... Dunno.

But in all this, something bothers me.

Supposedly, Wright used his own money to "bribe" Duffy and presumably the Conservative Party was going to pay back Wright for this generosity. And presumably, Harper was aware of all these dealings.

I thought bribery was a private individual giving money to a State employee to influence a decision. Is it bribery if the State gives money to an individual?

Can the RCMP charge the PMO with bribery? I mean, that's what the PMO does all the time. It named Duffy to the Senate, gave him a sinecure. Harper gave $10 million to Maher Arar to silence him. Harper just gave almost $100 million to the town of Lac-Megantic (because it's in a region of possible Tory votes).

We can quibble over whether it was the Conservative Party funds or taxpayers' money or even Nigel Wright's RRSPs. For me, Harper has the power of the State and this is a curious case of the State being accused of paying a bribe to an individual.

If Harper falls on this, it won't be the accusation of bribery, and certainly not the amount of money. It will be something else: trust.

Edited November 23, 2013 by August1991

[scribblet]

Have you read the report because I think many will be very disappointed. Duffy is proven to be quite the liar and there is no evidence to suggest the PM was culpable in anything.

[BubberMiley]

...there is no evidence to suggest the PM was culpable in anything.

Except the recovered emails cited above.

[jacee]

Have you read the report because I think many will be very disappointed. Duffy is proven to be quite the liar and there is no evidence to suggest the PM was culpable in anything.

In that case, we'll see charges against the lawyers who had a legal obligation to inform him.

Both Perrin and Hamilton had a legal obligation to inform the prime minister of any potential criminal wrongdoing, says criminal lawyer Michael Spratt.Either they kept Harper in the dark, or the lawyers acted appropriately and ethically, which means the prime minister must know more than he has been saying he knew, Spratt told CTV.

...

The affidavit suggests Wright checked with the prime minister before finalizing a deal to pay Duffys ineligible expense claims from the Conservative Fund when they were believed to total about $32,000.

In a Feb. 22 email, Wright said: I do want to speak to the PM before everything is considered final. An hour later, Wright wrote: We are good to go from the PM.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/ex-pmo-counsel-benjamin-perrin-may-face-b-c-law-society-investigation-1.1554307

So either Hamilton and Perrin take a fall for failing to tell the PM or they clear themselves by implicating the PM.

Edited November 22, 2013 by jacee

[cybercoma]

Have you read the report because I think many will be very disappointed. Duffy is proven to be quite the liar and there is no evidence to suggest the PM was culpable in anything.

Except the recovered emails cited above.

It's like saying there's no evidence that the sky is blue.

[scribblet]

According to the police report Mr. Harper did not know about the plan nor the cheque Nigel cut. It also shows that it was Senator Duffy, via his lawyer who made the demands of the PMO that the Deloitte audit be halted etc. Everything is speculation because there is no new evidence to suggest PM was involved in any criminal, activity or even a coverup.

The report shows Nigel Wright to be a good man who mean well and intended nothing criminal. It's too bad he tried to help Duffy.

Have any of you read the report, and if so do you believe it to be accurate ?

Edited November 22, 2013 by scribblet

[Topaz]

Just go back from the time this party came to be and all the scams schemes, half truths and the way they have conducted themselves. Now, is it believable that Harper didn't know?? No. Why? He's known for his "take charge" attitude, nothing being done without his consent. In Parliament, one can lie can get away with it, which the Tories were charge with contempt and Harper just disagreed with the Speaker. The worse for the Tories, is the agenda of bring accountable and open government and they seem to be more of the problem than the solution. I always believe that Harper has at least , one person telling him what was going on...his lawyer but now its seems Wright was and maybe that's why Wright's latest statement about not doing anything wrong was the fact the PM told him to do it. After all, they NEVER thought this would be made public.

[Argus]

Just go back from the time this party came to be and all the scams schemes, half truths and the way they have conducted themselves

Ayup. Not the most honest bunch, except in one regard. With the exception of Tony Clement's diverting money for the G20 into his riding, they have largely avoided the massive graft, corruption and misuse of public funds which typified the Trudeau, Mulroney, Chretien and Martin governments.

In my view, all four of those men should have ended their elected terms with long terms in prison for theft and misuse of public money.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Argus

[bleeding heart]

Everyone opining about what a good man Nigel Wright is...must be quite apoplectic about Harper's remarks regarding the man.

But, no, apparently having one's cake and eating it is the New Cool.

[scribblet]

I'm, not 'apoplectic' about anything, just read the report.

[ReeferMadness]

In that case, we'll see charges against the lawyers who had a legal obligation to inform him.

Both Perrin and Hamilton had a legal obligation to inform the prime minister of any potential criminal wrongdoing, says criminal lawyer Michael Spratt.Either they kept Harper in the dark, or the lawyers acted appropriately and ethically, which means the prime minister must know more than he has been saying he knew, Spratt told CTV.

...

The affidavit suggests Wright checked with the prime minister before finalizing a deal to pay Duffys ineligible expense claims from the Conservative Fund when they were believed to total about $32,000.

In a Feb. 22 email, Wright said: I do want to speak to the PM before everything is considered final. An hour later, Wright wrote: We are good to go from the PM.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/ex-pmo-counsel-benjamin-perrin-may-face-b-c-law-society-investigation-1.1554307

So either Hamilton and Perrin take a fall for failing to tell the PM or they clear themselves by implicating the PM.

So, Harper is claiming that he thought Wright was asking for permission to allow Duffy to repay his expenses out of his own pocket.

I have to admit I'm curious. Even among the ardent Harperites, can anybody be dumb enough to believe this?

[August1991]

How depressing.

I start a thread on one point, and posters turn it into a "Fanboy Team A Playstation 4" vs a "Fanboy Team B Xbox One" thread.

-----

Like Richard Nixon, Stephen Harper may be an "unindicted co-conspirator". But what is Harper guilty of? He tried to use public money/taxpayer money/Conservative party funds to influence a Senator.

WTF? That's what political power is.

Bribery, corruption is when a private individual gives money to a State official to influence a decision. That may have been the situation of Spiro Agnew. But it's not the situation of Stephen Harper.

Edited November 23, 2013 by August1991

[BubberMiley]

How depressing.

I start a thread on one point, and posters turn it into a "Fanboy Team A Playstation 4" vs a "Fanboy Team B Xbox One" thread.

I didn't realize that had happened. Apparently the voice command TV remote feature on the One doesn't work in Canada.

[ReeferMadness]

How depressing.

I start a thread on one point, and posters turn it into a "Fanboy Team A Playstation 4" vs a "Fanboy Team B Xbox One" thread.

-----

Like Richard Nixon, Stephen Harper may be an "unindicted co-conspirator". But what is Harper guilty of? He tried to use public money/taxpayer money/Conservative party funds to influence a Senator.

WTF? That's what political power is.

Bribery, corruption is when a private individual gives money to a State official to influence a decision. That may have been the situation of Spiro Agnew. But it's not the situation of Stephen Harper.

Sorry to depress you.

There are two courts in play. The RCMP are busy investigating Wright. If you want to know what Harper is guilty of, read up on what they are pursuing.

But the court that really matters is the court of public opinion. After first staking out the high road by proclaiming he wouldn't be appointing unelected senators, he then turns around and appoints a camp-follower like Duffy. So when Duffy's caught with his snout deep in the same trough that so enraged Harper's loyal base about the Liberals, the bright lights in the Con Party start to worry about the brand. So Harper stuffs Wright under the bus (then throws him under a few more times for good measure, trashing his reputation beyond repair) and desperately starts to spout transparent lies.

If I worked in the PMO, I'd wonder if I was being groomed for bus fodder.

[ReeferMadness]

And as for Xbox vs Playstation, I'll take the one that is marketed honestly.

Oh, that's neither. Never mind, then.

[August1991]

Reefer Madness,

Political corruption usually means a private business (Goldman Sachs, Halliburton, SNC Lavalin) giving money to a politician to influence a decision.

With this scandal, we have a PMO (Harper/Wright) accused of giving money to a senator. WTF?

The PMO gives money to many people to influence them. That's what governments do.

Weird.

[August1991]

But the court that really matters is the court of public opinion. After first staking out the high road by proclaiming he wouldn't be appointing unelected senators, he then turns around and appoints a camp-follower like Duffy.

Fair enough.

If I worked in the PMO, I'd wonder if I was being groomed for bus fodder.

As it is said well in English: Been there, done that. Thrown under the bus? No, not at all. Edited November 23, 2013 by August1991