Will Stephen Harper resign over the Senate scandal?

[g_bambino]

It all comes down to whether someone decides for other reasons that Harper should go. People who want Harper gone will insist that Harper is somehow guilty as a way to rationalize their desires.

Well, first you say there are reasons someone might want Harper gone and then you say those who want Harper gone want that for only one reason. Of course, the former is correct. In fact, one could even ponder on which transgression or transgressions they think Harper is guilty of. As I alluded to, it isn't just about the law.

[jacee]

Well, first you say there are reasons someone might want Harper gone and then you say those who want Harper gone want that for only one reason. Of course, the former is correct. In fact, one could even ponder on which transgression or transgressions they think Harper is guilty of. As I alluded to, it isn't just about the law.

There's only one reason they'd ditch Harper: Because they don't think he can win another election.

[g_bambino]

[T]hey don't think he can win another election.

That's tautological: He won't win the election if people don't vote for him, people won't vote for Harper because he won't win the election.

[TimG]

Of course, the former is correct. In fact, one could even ponder on which transgression or transgressions they think Harper is guilty of.

My point is this particular transgression is in an ambiguous zone so people who have already decided that they want Harper gone will jump on this issue. People who are otherwise satisfied with Harper will dismiss it. I don't think this issue is big enough to actually change minds. Edited November 24, 2013 by TimG

[On Guard for Thee]

A time goes on and more police files are opened it becomes more and more obvious that Harper was well aware of the illegal activity within his own office. What is ad is the waste of time Harper subjects us all to a he flails.

[cybercoma]

My point is this particular transgression is in an ambiguous zone so people who have already decided that they want Harper gone will jump on this issue. People who are otherwise satisfied with Harper will dismiss it. I don't think this issue is big enough to actually change minds.

The poll numbers suggest it's more than just the people who already didn't like Harper. The Conservatives are bleeding support and Harper's leadership rating has tanked. The only way you can say that this is a non-issue, stoked by the usual Harper-Haters, is if you completely ignore the numbers.

[TimG]

The poll numbers suggest it's more than just the people who already didn't like Harper. The Conservatives are bleeding support and Harper's leadership rating has tanked. The only way you can say that this is a non-issue, stoked by the usual Harper-Haters, is if you completely ignore the numbers.

Polls always tank in the face of bad news. The issue is how people will vote in 2015. It is a pretty trivial thing to make a scandal about. Come on - a rich guy working for the government who pays his own travel expenses as a point of principal agrees that a senator was technically not violating any rules but agrees to cover the cost of repaying those expenses to the public purse in return for a public admission of guilt (it was Duffy who insisted that he would admit no wrong). Edited November 24, 2013 by TimG

[eyeball]

My point is this particular transgression is in an ambiguous zone so people who have already decided that they want Harper gone will jump on this issue. People who are otherwise satisfied with Harper will dismiss it. I don't think this issue is big enough to actually change minds.

What your point fails to account for is that this particular transgression in and of itself is not all that's on people's minds. It's merely the tip of a deeper iceberg of discontent.

[waldo]

Polls always tank in the face of bad news. The issue is how people will vote in 2015. It is a pretty trivial thing to make a scandal about. Come on - a rich guy working for the government who pays his own travel expenses as a point of principal agrees that a senator was technically not violating any rules but agrees to cover the cost of repaying those expenses to the public purse in return for a public admission of guilt (it was Duffy who insisted that he would admit no wrong).

of course... all that bribery stuff... all that manipulation of the audit process... all that report adjustment/tailoring... all that ever growing size of "just who knew". More than just Harper's initial claim of "just one person knew", hey?

[g_bambino]

I don't think this issue is big enough to actually change minds.

It is putting Harper's managerial skills--previously so greatly touted--in question.

Plus, this incident isn't isolated. It is just another in a fairly long string of relatively minor matters that have been morphed into bigger problems by the Conservatives' own overreactive mismanagement.

[On Guard for Thee]

Paying off a senator to keep his mouth shut and thwart an ongoing audit is clearly illegal, which Is a far from the concept of something as simple as an over reaction by the Harper management.

[madmax]

Harper won't resign anymore the Rob Ford will resign.

However, its time the entire Senate Resign, shutting down the kangeroo court and Harpers puppetry palace.

The abolishment of the Conservative led senate wheels are being put into motion , thanks to a PM who appointed Senators for provinces they did not live in.

Orange Juice anyone..

[On Guard for Thee]

Maybe Harper attended geography school with George W and so could be forgiven for not really knowing the lay of the land.

Can I have a drop of vodka in my OJ, I'm celebratin'

[g_bambino]

Paying off a senator to keep his mouth shut and thwart an ongoing audit is clearly illegal.

Can you prove that's what happened?

[g_bambino]

The abolishment of the Conservative led senate wheels are being put into motion.

Nope.

[jacee]

Can you prove that's what happened?

That's the evidence the RCMP are collecting:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/pmo-staff-worked-with-senators-to-whitewash-mike-duffy-report-rcmp-1.1551905

In court documents filed Wednesday, the RCMP alleges Wright broke the law by giving the $90,000 cheque to Duffy so he could repay ineligible expenses.Nigel Wright did directly or indirectly corruptly give or offer to a member of Parliament for the benefit of that person, any money, valuable considerations, or office in respect of anything done or omitted, or to be done or mitted by him in his official capacity contrary to section 119 of the Criminal Code, Horton wrote in the affidavit.Its the first time Wright has been accused of a criminal act by the RCMP. None of the allegations have proven in court.

[brian66]

The whispering of Harper resigning is starting to get louder and now journalists are openly starting to write that the PM should resign.

I think that he will be staying on. Even if he resigned, he would be handing a mess to his successor just like Chretien did which could devastate the party going forward.

http://looniepolitics.com/harpers-lincoln-continental/

[g_bambino]

That's the evidence the RCMP are collecting:.

No, that's an accusation that's being investigated, which is neither proof that Wright did pay "off a senator to keep his mouth shut and thwart an ongoing audit" nor that that is specifically the corruption being investigated.

[TimG]

No, that's an accusation that's being investigated, which is neither proof that Wright did pay "off a senator to keep his mouth shut and thwart an ongoing audit" nor that that is specifically the corruption being investigated.

The fact that so many people cannot distinguish between a hypothesis floated by the the RCMP in order to get access to e-mails and an actual charge shows how much of this 'scandal' is really a partisan witch hunt. Given the e-mail evidence that has surfaced so far it would be a gross miscarriage of justice to charge Wright with a crime. Edited November 25, 2013 by TimG

[cybercoma]

I will be incredibly surprised if Stephen Harper steps down before losing an election.

[hitops]

Based on the polling of news agencies themselves, this is much more of an issue to the media than it is to the public. Maybe partly because it's hard to understand what exactly happened. So far it seems very unlikely that Harper would give the RCMP access to all the emails if he was involved.

However, the senate should either go, or turn into an elected body of some sort. It's obvious that even the most supposedly senior statesmen cannot be trusted to act any better than greedy children when given the government credit card.

I don't see why Harper would step down. It doesn't make sense legally or strategically.

[PIK]

I hear they are close to charges, but what the hell is going on in ONT 2 years since chris mazda has been investigated and what, he is working as a doctor in thunderbay. Even this is not fair to mazda, especially if he is innocent. Just like del mastro charge him now or end it, how long do people have to have something like this hanging over there heads. I would certainly not like it, would you??

Edited November 27, 2013 by PIK

[Argus]

The fact that so many people cannot distinguish between a hypothesis floated by the the RCMP in order to get access to e-mails and an actual charge shows how much of this 'scandal' is really a partisan witch hunt. Given the e-mail evidence that has surfaced so far it would be a gross miscarriage of justice to charge Wright with a crime.

According to a number of top lawyers, these accusations – they’re contained in what’s called an “Information to Obtain” document, released last week – make no sense. They’ll be amazed if they ever result in criminal charges. Mr. Wright wasn’t trying to get a personal benefit by writing a cheque to Mr. Duffy. He was trying to get Mr. Duffy to comply with the law. “The funds were given to Duffy to bring the Duffy expenses controversy to an end, like settling a lawsuit,” Rob Walsh, until recently the top legal adviser to Parliament, told the CBC. “This is not fraud, nor is it breach of trust.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/the-senate-scandals-out-of-legs/article15590034/#dashboard/follows/

[On Guard for Thee]

That's obviously the job of the RCMP which is ongoing and that seems to be getting ever closer to the PMO. A clear copy of the Delloite report would be a good start and then there are all those emails. Pretty hard to believe that someone who has so often been referred to as a control freak didn't know about such serious business going on in his own office. It could very well be true I suppose, although then instead of a control freak he's jut plain incompetent.

[jacee]

So far it seems very unlikely that Harper would give the RCMP access to all the emails if he was involved.

.

You're suggesting he had a choice?

Refusing would be 'obstructing justice', a criminal offence.