Former Calgary cop blows whistle on corruption.

[GostHacked]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/former-edmonton-cop-derek-huff-blows-whistle-on-brutality-corruption-1.1871353

A former cop with an exemplary record is going public about what he calls corruption in Edmonton police ranks, after he tried internally to expose what he believes is organized brutality, but got no results.

"I stood up for what's right, and I just got run out of the police service, said Derek Huff, 37. I still cant even really believe it.

So there is a notion by some that things can be corrected if you go through the right channels.

He said he and his partner were then branded as "rats" and were mocked and shunned. Huff said it got so bad, when he and Furman called for backup on the street, no one came.

I went from having a great career to being a rat and its almost like jail, said Huff. If youre labelled a rat in the police service, youre done.

Went through channels, got nowhere.

[Signals.Cpl]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/former-edmonton-cop-derek-huff-blows-whistle-on-brutality-corruption-1.1871353

So there is a notion by some that things can be corrected if you go through the right channels.

Went through channels, got nowhere.

But he went through the roper channels if it all is correct. If he had an issue and went straight to the media that would be a different story. If all avenues are explored and it becomes apparent that nothing can or will be done about the problem then go forth and involve the media, but if he did not bother to bring this up to the chain of command and then went straight to the media it would be much different.

[GostHacked]

But he went through the roper channels if it all is correct. If he had an issue and went straight to the media that would be a different story. If all avenues are explored and it becomes apparent that nothing can or will be done about the problem then go forth and involve the media, but if he did not bother to bring this up to the chain of command and then went straight to the media it would be much different.

Actually I think that this proves that going through proper channels will get you nowhere.

[Signals.Cpl]

Actually I think that this proves that going through proper channels will get you nowhere.

Just because one person going through the proper channels in one organization hits a brick wall means all people in all organizations will face the same problem?

Going through the proper channels might not get positive results all the time but the process is in place for a reason, go through the process and if you hit a brick wall you go outside the change of command.

[AngusThermopyle]

Just because one person going through the proper channels in one organization hits a brick wall means all people in all organizations will face the same problem?

Actually precedence tends to support the theory that all large organizations will tend to operate in this manner. I recall incidents that occurred during my time with the Military that would bear this out. For instance whistle blowers were painted as being mentally unstable or trouble makers then shunted off somewhere they would have difficulty bringing issues to light. One instance involved a young officer who exposed military reports stating casualties and deaths were accidental in nature to be falsified in order to cover the truth. He was predictably labeled as a habitual trouble maker with mental issues and was dismissed shortly after this. Another example would be Rwanda, where Dallaire was portrayed as some sort of saintly hero when in fact he stood by while thousands were butchered and even allowed ten of his own men to be killed without lifting a finger, even though he was fully aware of what was happening.

[eyeball]

Another example would be Rwanda, where Dallaire was portrayed as some sort of saintly hero when in fact he stood by while thousands were butchered and even allowed ten of his own men to be killed without lifting a finger, even though he was fully aware of what was happening.

Wouldn't this be more a case of the reverse happening where junior officials cover for or reflect their seniors wishes or failings? In Dallaire's case that would have been the politicians.

As for the Jack Redlick's of the world, I really do think there is a sizable undercurrent of downward causation in a lot of the excessive violence that people tasked with enforcement and security everywhere seem to have been exhibiting these last number of years. They've gotten a little too caught up in the hard-assed gung-ho crack-down and get-tough attitude that's all the vogue with politicians/governments now. I guess it all stems from the run away 'climate change' of security and enforcement that was initiated by 9/11.

What's really sad is the sycophantic support for this trend that seems to be taking firmer root amongst the public.

[AngusThermopyle]

Wouldn't this be more a case of the reverse happening where junior officials cover for or reflect their seniors wishes or failings? In Dallaire's case that would have been the politicians.

Yes and no. It was a case of reciprocal covering going on in this instance. Dallaire claimed he was under orders from the U.N., which is true to a degree. Further to that our politicians waffled on the issue, finally, Dallaire refused to do anything even when under pressure from his own men in the field. When the incident with the ten men under his command occurred he faced very strenuous demands and pressure from his own people to mount a rescue operation but flat out refused. He even drove past the compound where the men were being attacked while it was happening and didn't bother to radio a report to base as he was on his way to what he claimed was an important meeting and didn't want anything to interfere with it. He left his men to die and didn't lift a finger to prevent it, literally.

After the whole thing was done our politicians and media mounted a massive campaign to present him as some sort of hero and swept the incident with the ten under the rug. It is an affront to the ten and a national disgrace that most Canadians know nothing at all about.

[Signals.Cpl]

Actually precedence tends to support the theory that all large organizations will tend to operate in this manner. I recall incidents that occurred during my time with the Military that would bear this out. For instance whistle blowers were painted as being mentally unstable or trouble makers then shunted off somewhere they would have difficulty bringing issues to light. One instance involved a young officer who exposed military reports stating casualties and deaths were accidental in nature to be falsified in order to cover the truth. He was predictably labeled as a habitual trouble maker with mental issues and was dismissed shortly after this. Another example would be Rwanda, where Dallaire was portrayed as some sort of saintly hero when in fact he stood by while thousands were butchered and even allowed ten of his own men to be killed without lifting a finger, even though he was fully aware of what was happening.

Precedence suports that? How can you prove that? Because if internal mechanism designed to solve problems that pop up are successful then we are likely to never hear about it and as a result we will hear only the once that get out of hand.

As for Dallaire, it is for a different thread and forum but the reality is that he had nothing at his disposal that could stop the massacre. He saved 30,000 or more people from death with the insignificant resources at his disposal. There are allot of things I disagree with Mr Dallaire but his handling of Rwanda is not one of them because he was put in a situation where the UN was working against him while expecting him to solve the problem when at every turn they fight him.

[Signals.Cpl]

Yes and no. It was a case of reciprocal covering going on in this instance. Dallaire claimed he was under orders from the U.N., which is true to a degree. Further to that our politicians waffled on the issue, finally, Dallaire refused to do anything even when under pressure from his own men in the field. When the incident with the ten men under his command occurred he faced very strenuous demands and pressure from his own people to mount a rescue operation but flat out refused. He even drove past the compound where the men were being attacked while it was happening and didn't bother to radio a report to base as he was on his way to what he claimed was an important meeting and didn't want anything to interfere with it. He left his men to die and didn't lift a finger to prevent it, literally.

And if he had done something that caused another hundred Paratroopers to die what happens then? If he had no means to rescue them without putting the rest of his command in danger his only option was to try and negotiate for their release.

[AngusThermopyle]

I was going to answer Signals.Cpl and did in fact post a rather long answer explaining what happened. You know what? I just can't be bothered arguing with someone who will never admit that they don't know everything. This is also one of the reasons why I don't bother posting here very much anymore.

Edited October 1, 2013 by AngusThermopyle

[jacee]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/former-edmonton-cop-derek-huff-blows-whistle-on-brutality-corruption-1.1871353

So there is a notion by some that things can be corrected if you go through the right channels.

Went through channels, got nowhere.

He's doing the right thing.

We need more like him, but they get shoved out.

Glad he's talking.

[Signals.Cpl]

I was going to answer Signals.Cpl and did in fact post a rather long answer explaining what happened. You know what? I just can't be bothered arguing with someone who will never admit that they don't know everything. This is also one of the reasons why I don't bother posting here very much anymore.

I dont know everything, but I do know a lot about a few things. If you bothered to do some rudimentary research you would see that ultimately the fault for the mission's failure lay at the hands of the UN and its member states rather than a mission commander who had a small force of lightly armed peacekeepers with about 3X30 round magazines per soldier. Now tell me since you said that you were in the military at one point, how long would it take you to go through a 90 rounds in a firefight? And what do you do when your entire command is left with no ammunition after the first 15 minutes?

The man was vilified because the world needed a scapegoat for its failure and downright betrayal of the Rwandan people and they pointed at the person in charge ignoring the fact that he did the best he can with the limited resources at his disposal.

[Signals.Cpl]

He's doing the right thing.

We need more like him, but they get shoved out.

Glad he's talking.

Or on the flip side, the guys like him become white noise. Every person with a complaint goes to the media rather than the proper chanels, soon enough we end up ignoring legitimate complaints because it fills the hole of being just another cry for attention. Cry wolf too many times and no one believes you, get 50,000 people to cry wolf and when the wolf comes no one will bother to listen because of all the false complaints.

[jacee]

Every person with a complaint goes to the media rather than the proper chanels, ...

Do that and you'll be fired for sure.

He used "proper channels".

They shoved him out.

Now he's free to talk.

Their loss.

[kimmy]

Or on the flip side, the guys like him become white noise. Every person with a complaint goes to the media rather than the proper chanels, soon enough we end up ignoring legitimate complaints because it fills the hole of being just another cry for attention. Cry wolf too many times and no one believes you, get 50,000 people to cry wolf and when the wolf comes no one will bother to listen because of all the false complaints.

Well that's just silly. As the story makes clear, he *did* go through the proper channels.

And what are you talking about in regard to "crying wolf", and what false complaints?

And where are all of these thousands of police officers who are creating all this "white noise" you speak of? There are hardly any. I can't off the top of my head think of any other similar cases in Canada. I can't think of any similar cases period, aside from Serpico.

-k

[kimmy]

The information that Derek Huff has provided to the media should not surprise anybody except for dumb-guys, toddlers, and senile shut-ins.

The only time that the police actually come clean about anything like this is when they're caught red-handed-- on video, or in this case outed by one of their colleagues who has a conscience. And then, suddenly, when they know they're caught, they act all shocked. Chief Wiggum there gets up on the podium and says "Gee, I'm just completely flabbergasted! I never knew anything about this. We wouldn't tolerate this in our department! It's against our code of conduct! It's against the law! We wouldn't stand for it if we knew. We're obviously going to investigate this just as hard as we can, because by golly we care, darn it! And it's just one bad apple, and we're going to find the bad apple and we're going to deal with it."

That is a load of bovine fecal matter.

The cops that administered the curb-stompings are bad apples. The cops that know about the curb-stompings and didn't say anything are bad apples. The cops who reviewed the case and concluded that there was no wrongdoing are bad apples. The cops who blackballed Huff and Furman for "ratting" on Jack Redlick are bad apples. They are ALL bad apples, except for the two guys who actually did the right thing.

They do not deserve our trust. The reason people are demanding civilian oversight for police misconduct investigations is that they know the police can not be trusted to investigate their buddies.

This is completely ridiculous, and people should stop making excuses for scumbags and should stop accepting "it's just one bad apple".

-k

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[Signals.Cpl]

Well that's just silly. As the story makes clear, he *did* go through the proper channels.

What part was silly? Guys like him with legitimate concerns become white noise because everyone with or without legitimate goes through the media first and ignores the proper channels so when someone with legitimate concerns like him shows up and makes a complaint it gets ignored. From my understanding, jacee and Ghost are for ignoring the proper chain and just stright to the media which means that complaints wether legitimate or not will be ignored in an ever increasing quantities by people.

And what are you talking about in regard to "crying wolf", and what false complaints?

You have 100 people with one problem or another, 5 of them have voiced a legitimate complaint and gone through the proper channels and the net result is nothing being done for the problem so they go through the media and their organizations are forced to deal with the problem because of public pressure. This is the right way as far as I am concerned, convincing people to skip on going through the chain of command and go straight to the media with every petty complaint means that those people like this officer who have a legitimate complain end up being ignored. If you have everyone crying wolf no one will believe the one guy or the few people who actually see the wolf

And where are all of these thousands of police officers who are creating all this "white noise" you speak of?

Not police officer, just people. If suddenly every soldier, sailor, airmen, firefighter, police officer, paramedic, teacher etc... decided to air their grievances through the media without using the proper channels means that those with legitimate grievances will be ignored simply because it becomes everyday news and apparent that 95% of complaints are made by people who do not follow the proper channels the other 5% are ignored.

I agree with this persons actions, but suggesting others should skip the chain seems irresponsible.

[jacee]

I agree with this persons actions,

me too

but suggesting others should skip the chain seems irresponsible.

Nobody said that.. Edited October 2, 2013 by jacee

[kimmy]

I agree with this persons actions, but suggesting others should skip the chain seems irresponsible.

"The chain" is busted. The people who control "the proper channels" are part of the same corrupt culture that protects scumbag cops from public scrutiny in the first place.

Is there anybody left in Canada who is so galactically stupid that they still trust the police to investigate and discipline their own? I mean seriously, how god damned dumb would you have to be to think that's a workable proposition after all we've learned in the past 5 years?

-k

[GostHacked]

"The chain" is busted. The people who control "the proper channels" are part of the same corrupt culture that protects scumbag cops from public scrutiny in the first place.

Is there anybody left in Canada who is so galactically stupid that they still trust the police to investigate and discipline their own? I mean seriously, how god damned dumb would you have to be to think that's a workable proposition after all we've learned in the past 5 years?

-k

That is one thing that continues to astound me.

[eyeball]

I'm not surprised in this increasingly sycophantic society that is engrossed with authority, security, enforcement, punishment and more of it.

[GostHacked]

I'm not surprised in this increasingly sycophantic society that is engrossed with authority, security, enforcement, punishment and more of it.

We talked about Stockholm Syndrome before, and I think it applies here as well.

This once former cop stood up and said something. He is one of many that have gone through the channels and when that failed he went to the press. The number of cases we see where people do this are very small. I am sure that there are other cases where people went through the channels, and were either convinced to shut up, or possibly bribed and payed off to keep quiet. I would guess that this just the tip. What are the other stories we don't know about? How rife is this? And why can't we as the public get answers from the police services or the government regarding the amount of incidents that we DO know of?

The culture among the police forces is to protect their own. Clearly this will put the public as well as other police at risk.

Love your captors and controllers.

[cybercoma]

"The chain" is busted. The people who control "the proper channels" are part of the same corrupt culture that protects scumbag cops from public scrutiny in the first place.

Is there anybody left in Canada who is so galactically stupid that they still trust the police to investigate and discipline their own? I mean seriously, how god damned dumb would you have to be to think that's a workable proposition after all we've learned in the past 5 years?

-k

Imagine the Mafia being accused of a crime and saying, "Thanks! We'll look into ourselves."

[eyeball]

And why can't we as the public get answers from the police services or the government regarding the amount of incidents that we DO know of?

The culture among the police forces is to protect their own. Clearly this will put the public as well as other police at risk.

Love your captors and controllers.

We, or a sizable number of us at least don't want or feel a need for answers and in fact resent the questions in the first place. Police are at even less risk in a lot of ways. The only thing that might otherwise turn this trend around are the occasional you-tube videos that graphically captures some cop(s) inappropriately beating on or killing someone.

I notice Edmonton police like a few other police forces are experimenting with wearable cameras but I often wonder how long this development can continue without succumbing to pressure and the compulsion of their immediate superiors and farther up the line to their political masters, to control and filter whatever information makes it through to us.