What to do with Canada Post?

[Boges]

Canada Post should be allowed and encourgaged to execute their business plan within government priorities that respect that this is 2015 2016, not 1915.

Letter mail is on deaths door, let it go. Parcel delivery will soar. Let Canada Post bepart of that.

FTFY

There's no reason why mail delivery can't be contracted out either, especially in areas where it's highly subsidized.

[overthere]

Where did I argue against any of that?

Well, first of all, you can't get a parcel in a rural or remote area for the most part without Canada Post.

My suggestion is that Canada Post is not required in any areas, rural or remote. There are always options, and in fact Canada Post uses those options daily in many cases. The cost is no different, and it it were the volume is so small it doesn't matter.

I guess your sentence linking CP and remote/rural delivery is what threw me off, made me think they were linked.

[Smallc]

My suggestion is that Canada Post is not required in any areas, rural or remote. There are always options, and in fact Canada Post uses those options daily in many cases.

I have no problem with private service and increased costs (thought they have to be somewhat reasonable). All I'm saying is that there has to be some kind of service.

[overthere]

Agreed.

Universal mail service is desirable and made possible via increased privatization(it is already very common in Canada, many functions are done by CP with contractors) and the cost does not have to increase more than it has.

What I want to see is Trudeau get behind Canada Post by allowing them to operate their business within modern poltical guidelines.

The Corp has actually done very well in the last 30 + years, when compared to the previous 30 years. Strikes are rare(they used to paralyze the economy regularly), the mail gets delivered, the cost is moderate, and they don't cost us anything beyond direct user fees via stamps etc. They have developed a sophisticated distribution system with large capital investments generated from operating profits, not subsidies.

The best thing Turdeau could do is to stay out of it and let them execute their business plan.

[ironstone]

Lavish pensions, eh? Postal Workers driving around in Bentleys upon retirement? Sipping Champagne? Eating caviar?

Sounds like a pretty damn good plan to me according to their own website.

http://www.cupw.ca/en/campaigns-and-issues/pensions

Let Canada Post support themselves.

[overthere]

Let Canada Post support themselves.

They have been operating without subsidy since the 1980s.

Their biggest threat is political intereference aka Trudeau.

[Boges]

They're really going to strike?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/canada-post-service-mail-strike-lockout-deadline-1.3655608

As negotiations stall between Canada Post and the Canadian Union of Postal Workers, both parties are talking about the possibility of a service disruption within days.

If an agreement between the Crown corporation and the union isn't reached by July 2, employees could be locked out or go on strike.

Canada Post is warning a work disruption is a very real possibility after that date and no parcels or mail will be delivered.

The Crown corporation has suggested deadlines for premium mail-delivery options for customers wanting guaranteed delivery by June 30:

• Xpresspost (national and regional) — June 28
• Expedited Parcel (local) — June 29
• Priority (national, regional and local) — June 29
• Xpresspost (local) — June 29

There is no mail delivery on Friday, July 1, which is Canada Day.

Canada Post said if there is a disruption in service, any mail or parcels caught up in the system will be secured and held until operations resume.

Mike Palecek, the national president of the Canadian Union of Postal Workers, told CBC Monday, negotiations are breaking down over "major cuts to benefits and job security."

The union says Canada Post is a profitable Crown corporation.

Morons!!!!

[Smallc]

I personally know of a client that they lost last strike that accounted for more than half of their mail volume in a city of 11,000.

[Boges]

Just because Puralator is profitable (Only because the government mandates that they can offer a cheaper rate than their competitors) doesn't mean that the door-to-door delivery of paper mail can move forward with the status quo.

Apparently any work-to-rule campaign by the Union will be met with an immediate lockout by Canada Post. They'll show the Union how irrelevant they actually are.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Boges

[PIK]

I go there almost every day and I see them all sitting around talking and laughing while making big bucks to do very little. All those strikes at Christmas time has now caught up to them. Screw them.

[Smeelious]

I'm mostly surprised that this hasn't been bigger news.

(Honestly, I've learned more about this strike from gaming forums than news outlets...)

[Argus]

For all the 'screw the posties' reaction, does anyone actually know what the strike (if it happens) is about? Neither the news items, nor the CUPW web site are very explicit.

I've never worked for Canada Post, but everyone I know who has says management are about as bad as it comes. I was working in the Canada Post headquarters complex a few years back when they had layoffs. The layoffs were accomplished by inviting the employee(s) involved to a boardroom, giving them a letter of redundancy, and then having a security guard accompany them to the door. The stuff in their desk which was personal property would be boxed up and mailed to them at a later date.

[waldo]

For all the 'screw the posties' reaction, does anyone actually know what the strike (if it happens) is about?

it looks like they're close!

[overthere]

For all the 'screw the posties' reaction, does anyone actually know what the strike (if it happens) is about? Neither the news items, nor the CUPW web site are very explicit.

I've never worked for Canada Post, but everyone I know who has says management are about as bad as it comes. I was working in the Canada Post headquarters complex a few years back when they had layoffs. The layoffs were accomplished by inviting the employee(s) involved to a boardroom, giving them a letter of redundancy, and then having a security guard accompany them to the door. The stuff in their desk which was personal property would be boxed up and mailed to them at a later date.

Umm, that is entirely a normal method of layoffs at many corporations. It prevents acts of random violence to company property, theft or destruction of data and punches to the mouths of people. Totally normal.

The strike is not secret, its the usual stuff about wages and benefits. CPC wants to put new employees on a different pension plan- defined contribution like the rest of the world.

I agree about management being bad, in the sense that labour relations are awful and have been for decades. That is a two way street of course. I actually admire CPC management for pressing forward with a coherent business plan in spite of their severe handicaps, which includes a fair chunk f their own workforce. They also have the severe and recent handicap of the Trudeau government.

All a strike will do is drive away even more customers. Oh well. Perhaps it will accelerate the postal service into a more modern model, as has happened in several other Western countries.

Everybody is just rearranging the deck chairs on The Titanic anyway.

[Moonbox]

For all the 'screw the posties' reaction, does anyone actually know what the strike (if it happens) is about? Neither the news items, nor the CUPW web site are very explicit.

I've never worked for Canada Post, but everyone I know who has says management are about as bad as it comes. I was working in the Canada Post headquarters complex a few years back when they had layoffs. The layoffs were accomplished by inviting the employee(s) involved to a boardroom, giving them a letter of redundancy, and then having a security guard accompany them to the door. The stuff in their desk which was personal property would be boxed up and mailed to them at a later date.

I don't know of many public sector labour monopolies where the relationship between management and unionized workers is good. From what you've told us in the past, working in the federal public service was equally miserable. The problem, of course, is that management has very little recourse when it comes to under-performers and thus there is very little incentive to perform. This invariably puts management and labour at odds since their goals don't align.

As for Canada Post's apparent layoff practices, this is 100% normal and the absolute smartest way of doing things. I'm not sure how you somehow see this as inappropriate. For reasons already mentioned, it'd be foolish to lay someone off and subsequently allow them free reign in the office.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Moonbox

[msj]

They also have the severe and recent handicap of the Trudeau government.

Specifically, how has a Trudeau government affected the Canada Post and union?

Also, specifically, how would this be different from a Harper government?

[Boges]

Specifically, how has a Trudeau government affected the Canada Post and union?

Also, specifically, how would this be different from a Harper government?

I believe they put the brakes on the move to remove door-to-door delivery across the board.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/door-to-door-mail-delivery-could-return-after-canada-post-review-1.2888724

[msj]

They have.

And they have brought in a commission to study the issues too.

A study that will not be released until the end of this year at the earliest so we will have to wait and see if it provides comfort to one side or the other.

[overthere]

Specifically, how has a Trudeau government affected the Canada Post and union?

Also, specifically, how would this be different from a Harper government?

Specifically, by directly interfering with the execution of the Canada Post business plan by forcing them suspend the switch to community mail boxes.

Specifically, the Harper govt did not interfere with the long time federal mandate to allow CPC to operate their business efficiently and without subsidy. Martin and Chretien also joined Harper in doing this -not interfering in what has become an effective and coherent business operation. The last PM to stick his stupid face into their business was Mulroney, who hammered the brakes on the CPC closure of many tiny rural post offices about halfway through that program. Since then, Chretien, Martin nd Harper allowed much of that to proceed more quietly. Why? because it makes business sense. Halting the cessation of home delivery by Trudeau is equally stupid. Its main result has been to encourage what you see today: pointless labour unrest and disruption of mail delivery.

[overthere]

I don't know of many public sector labour monopolies where the relationship between management and unionized workers is good. From what you've told us in the past, working in the federal public service was equally miserable. The problem, of course, is that management has very little recourse when it comes to under-performers and thus there is very little incentive to perform. This invariably puts management and labour at odds since their goals don't align.

As for Canada Post's apparent layoff practices, this is 100% normal and the absolute smartest way of doing things. I'm not sure how you somehow see this as inappropriate. For reasons already mentioned, it'd be foolish to lay someone off and subsequently allow them free reign in the office.

The labour relationships at Canada Post and the mainstream federal unions could not be more different.

There is no incentive whatsoever for federal management to hardball their labour relationship with unions like PSAC. None. In fact, cutting the labour force numbers also means the unimaginable horror of laying off some of the many layers of management that have been carefully built to insulate themselves against such a calamity. Second, there is no financial or business reason to cut costs of organize the workforce effectively- everybody still gets paid no matter how much is wasted.

That is not the case at Canada Post, and has not been for over 30 years. There is no subsidy, the taxpayers are not backstopping bad decisions. The deal has been this: the federal govt will allow CPC as a semi-independent Crown agency lots of latitude to deliver the mail without disruption to the Canadian economy . In return, Canad Post will not be subsidized. It has worked out pretty well for over 3 decades, times that have had much tumult and some very serious existential challenges. But those challenges have had little interference/minimal involvemnent from the PMO except for two occasions, and both times for purely poltical reasons: From Mulroney in the late 80s, and from Trudeau in 2015/2016.

[?Impact]

Specifically, the Harper govt did not interfere with the long time federal mandate to allow CPC to operate their business efficiently and without subsidy. Martin and Chretien also joined Harper in doing this -not interfering in what has become an effective and coherent business operation.

Harper stuck his stupid little face into Canada Post in a big way:

Violated Rights

Lame Duck appoints stooge

Smoking Gun

Hot Button

[msj]

Harper stuck his stupid little face into Canada Post in a big way:

Violated Rights

Lame Duck appoints stooge

Smoking Gun

Hot Button

Yes, I suppose if/when Trudeau legislates the striking posties back to work then we will hear about how this is further intrusion blah blah blah forgetting that Harper did exactly that in 2011.....

Edited June 30, 2016 by msj

[Moonbox]

That is not the case at Canada Post, and has not been for over 30 years. There is no subsidy, the taxpayers are not backstopping bad decisions.

It's absolutely subsidized and it's either supremely ignorant or naive to say it isn't. While the government might not be writing them cheques directly, they maintain the monopoly that Canada Post has on regular mail and ensures that nobody can compete with them for that business. Wages and benefits are being artificially subsidized by the lack of competition and the businesses and consumers that still use the mail and have no other options pay for this subsidy.

[The_Squid]

Can anyone point to a modern country, similar to Canada's geography and population, that has a privatized and competitive national mail system? It would be interesting to be able to compare the two systems.

Comparing a place like Luxembourg would be problematic for obvious reasons.

Edited July 4, 2016 by The_Squid

[cybercoma]

What's obvious to you isn't going be obvious to others but then again explaining it won't make a damn bit of difference with partisans anyway.