High Salaries for police and firefighters

[Wilber]

Wilbur, what I like best about your post is the numbers that bring clarity to the dissonance between "Don't even apply if you're a white male" and a 75% white male graduation demographic.

Well, that was 9 years ago and only reflects a few local departments. Couldn't really say if things have changed since then but not that I know of. The RCMP and provincial forces may have different priorities. I think many departments make some effort to reflect the local demographic as much as possible but for the most part, entrance is still based on merit, not demographics.

[Scotty]

Police and firefighter salaries continue to rise at double the rate of inflation under the corrupt Liberal government, largely because of the kickbacks paid to the Liberal party by police and firefighter unions. I think the situation is particularly offensive when talking about smaller jurisidctions, as opposed to Toronto, where government arbitrators award the same salaries to fat, out of shape police whose main duties are to eat donuts and sit at speed traps as they do to cops in downtown Toronto.

I think the only answer for these towns and cities might be to fire all their police and firefighters, and use private sector security guards and volunteer firefighters. They could save an enormous amount of money with very little fall in the quality of services.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/toronto-police-budget-increases-to-1-billion-pay-keeps-outpacing-inflation/article27245007/

[Topaz]

Do any of you agree, that if people do a job that could be life-threatening, a high salary is granted , especially the military OR are u one that say, well, u decided the occupation so live with the danger?

[TimG]

Do any of you agree, that if people do a job that could be life-threatening, a high salary is granted , especially the military OR are u one that say, well, u decided the occupation so live with the danger?

The issue is not whether they should be well paid relative to average - the issue is how well paid? The problem with public unions is they assume they are entitled to raises just because time goes by. This is not sustainable. Raises must be connected to improvements in productivity and they cannot outpace the growth in the economy or the growth in government revenue that goes along with it. They should also take into account that the danger associated with jobs like firefighting is decreasing over time. Edited November 19, 2015 by TimG

[Michael Hardner]

The issue is not whether they should be well paid relative to average - the issue is how well paid? The problem with public unions is they assume they are entitled to raises just because time goes by. This is not sustainable. Raises must be connected to improvements in productivity and they cannot outpace the growth in the economy or the growth in government revenue that goes along with it. They should also take into account that the danger associated with jobs like firefighting is decreasing over time.

I agree with this completely, and there's no reason why a left-of-centre person shouldn't. The power of organized labour is obvious, but they need to agree to find win-win situations if they want to survive. Otherwise, a huge backlash will build up that will eventually create the political will to annihilate them.

[Scotty]

Do any of you agree, that if people do a job that could be life-threatening, a high salary is granted , especially the military OR are u one that say, well, u decided the occupation so live with the danger?

That would mean we'd have to be a lot more to garbagemen. Their jobs are, statistically, far more dangerous than police or firefighting.

The most dangerous jobs are

1 loggers

2 fishermen

3 pilots

4 roofers

5 steelworkers

6 garbage collectors

7 power line workers

8 truck drivers

9 farmers

10 construction workers

Police and firefighting simply are not that dangerous compared to other jobs, regardless of the aura which surrounds them.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/and-the-top-10-most-dangerous-jobs-are/article16352517/

Edited November 19, 2015 by Scotty

[Scotty]

The issue is not whether they should be well paid relative to average - the issue is how well paid? The problem with public unions is they assume they are entitled to raises just because time goes by. This is not sustainable. Raises must be connected to improvements in productivity and they cannot outpace the growth in the economy or the growth in government revenue that goes along with it. They should also take into account that the danger associated with jobs like firefighting is decreasing over time.

And we should take into account that while it's nice to be generous, we should not be so generous that we harm ourselves as a society. It's very nice to give police and firefighters $100k pay cheques and terrific benefits, but it means we have to make do with less police and firefighting, less ambulances and paramedics than we'd get if we took the same money but paid them a more reasonable $70k, for example. Many Ontario jurisdictions struggle to meet the response times for police and ambulances despite sky high budgets.

The same goes for teachers. It's nice to be generous, but teachers are approaching that $100k threshold too, in jobs which are so secure they're almost impossible to lose no matter how badly you perform them. That costs us in terms of having fewer teachers and more crowded classrooms.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Scotty

[Topaz]

Well one way to look at it, the new feds are going to taxes more income from high earners, so the country will get back through taxes.

[TimG]

Well one way to look at it, the new feds are going to taxes more income from high earners, so the country will get back through taxes.

Except the high income earners targeted are in the 250K+ range which is above the inflated salaries we are talking about.

[Scotty]

Except the high income earners targeted are in the 250K+ range which is above the inflated salaries we are talking about.

At the rate they're going they'll get there!

[overthere]

Well one way to look at it, the new feds are going to taxes more income from high earners, so the country will get back through taxes.

No, it will generate almost nothing in net taxes, which we will see soon in Canada.

Or that has been the experience of governments everywhere that have tried and ailed to tax the wealthy beyond a certain point.

Oh, and captial has never been more portable than it is now. The very wealthy just take their money, keep the passport, and leave.

And some well paid workers- like doctors- have no problem simply exporting their skills elsewhere. Thats a double whammy for us, since they were educated at public expense.

[Big Guy]

I believe that they get what they are worth. I would never consider either as a career and I wish the best to those who do.

[Smoke]

And now the Trudeau Liberals have announced that they will support the RCMP unionizing. Yet another public service union with which to ensure Liberal support and attack ads for the next election. And probably costs will increase dramatically, but that's OK....since Harper was ousted, the Liberals have suddenly become loving supporters of huge deficits.

[Smeelious]

Unionized RCMP...

Well at least that would prevent PMs from using them as Nannies.