TTC Police Shooting

[Guest American Woman]

So what is plainly obvious to many of us, is not obvious to some. The video provides more than enough to go on in this case to know the cop was not justified.

You have no idea what the video doesn't show. What's plainly obvious to many of us is that a YouTube video is not enough to make a verdict.

[Black Dog]

Where was he hit and how many times? Without knowing that, it's rather hard to determine that he was no longer a threat......There’s numerous, anecdotal & documented cases of people being hit by much larger (rifle) calibers, in various conflicts since the invention of metal cartridges, and still capable of harm……Now if you can’t accept human biology and firearms ballistics you’re demonstrating ignorance on the subject mater, as such, your reaction is purely emotional, and in my opinion (as will be confirmed with the results of the investigation) irrational.

He was never a threat to begin with (at least at the time he was shot).

[Guest Derek L]

He was never a threat to begin with (at least at the time he was shot).

Why did all the passengers and driver leave the streetcar? Was he gassy?

[Black Dog]

Why did all the passengers and driver leave the streetcar? Was he gassy?

That's pretty dumb, even for you.

[Boges]

Why did all the passengers and driver leave the streetcar? Was he gassy?

Well he was a threat . . . to people without guns

[g_bambino]

Well he was a threat . . . to people without guns

He was also a threat to any person with a gun.

[Black Dog]

He was also a threat to any person with a gun.

No, not really. He was contained, alone on the streetcar.

[GostHacked]

He was also a threat to any person with a gun.

[GostHacked]

He was also a threat to any person with a gun.

If I have a gun, and you have a knife, and you are a distance from me, what threat do you pose?

But there are some who can even disarm someone with a shotgun...... with only his hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ejrv3fV2GE

[g_bambino]

If I have a gun, and you have a knife, and you are a distance from me, what threat do you pose?

That depends on the distance, what's between us, and my skills at knife throwing.

[GostHacked]

That depends on the distance, what's between us, and my skills at knife throwing.

Depends on your confidence in your skills. And if you meet a cop like this kid did .. you will meet the same fate.

Can't tell if trolls or blind apologetics.

[Black Dog]

That depends on the distance, what's between us, and my skills at knife throwing.

You're at least 7 feet away, up a short flight of stairs and slightly down the hall from me.

[Boges]

Very mature.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/08/08/ontario-ombudsman-outs-twitter-troll-attacking-him-over-sammy-yatim-shooting-as-durham-police-detective/

Outspoken Ontario Ombudsman Andre Marin says a Durham police detective accused him of “being card-carrying member of al-Qaeda” over Twitter after the ombudsman took sharp arm at police actions after the shooting death of Toronto teen Sammy Yatim.

On Thursday, not long before Marin was going to announce an investigation into the province’s direction to police on de-escalating conflict situations, an anonymous Twitter account named “Joe Mayo” tweeted at the ombudsman’s account: “[Marin] is card member of Al Qaida.”

In all caps, the same account also tweeted that Marin was “a complete douche bag!”

“Why don’t you stick your big French nose up your ass instead of business where it doesn’t belong,” the tweet added.

Marin’s account quickly responded, saying that “Joe Mayo” was actually Durham police detective Scott Dennis. (He initially identified the officer as Dennis Scott.)

No the think blue line doesn't exist at all.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Boges

[Guest American Woman]

Very mature.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/08/08/ontario-ombudsman-outs-twitter-troll-attacking-him-over-sammy-yatim-shooting-as-durham-police-detective/

No the think blue line doesn't exist at all.

From what I've read, it hasn't been confirmed that "Joe Mayo" is actually Durham police detective Scott Dennis.

[Guest Derek L]

That's pretty dumb, even for you.

Why is that? You said he wasn't a threat, clearly he was...

[Guest Derek L]

Well he was a threat . . . to people without guns

Really, a person armed with a knife is not a threat to a person(s) with a gun?

I’ll also ask, if the police didn’t have guns, would he then be a threat in your mind?

[Guest Derek L]

That depends on the distance, what's between us, and my skills at knife throwing.

Or if your gun has a failure to feed........I've several Competition guns, each worth well over $1400 and $2000, yet they still will “jam” from time to time………Now a ~$600 service pistol used by police, be they Glocks, Sigs or Smith’s, are certainly not immune to a failure to feed……

Edited August 9, 2013 by Derek L

[ReeferMadness]

If I have a gun, and you have a knife, and you are a distance from me, what threat do you pose?

But there are some who can even disarm someone with a shotgun...... with only his hands.

Why don't you try it and let us know how it turns out?

[Black Dog]

Why is that? You said he wasn't a threat, clearly he was...

The difference between being a threat in a general sense (in that he was unhinged and had a knife) and being an immediate threat requiring the use of lethal force should be obvious to all. Except, apparently you.

[Guest Derek L]

The difference between being a threat in a general sense (in that he was unhinged and had a knife) and being an immediate threat requiring the use of lethal force should be obvious to all. Except, apparently you.

Please, explain a "general threat" and an "immediate threat"..........I'll ask you the same question, if said threat is predicated on if those threatened are armed with firearms, would that signal this young man being a threat to police if they were unarmed?

[cybercoma]

Derek, why don't cops open fire immediately whenever anyone has a weapon anywhere? Because your line of argument implies that cops should shoot to kill anyone at any time, as long as they're holding a weapon. They don't do this. Care to reconcile why they don't do this with what you're arguing?

[Guest Derek L]

Derek, why don't cops open fire immediately whenever anyone has a weapon anywhere? Because your line of argument implies that cops should shoot to kill anyone at any time, as long as they're holding a weapon. They don't do this. Care to reconcile why they don't do this with what you're arguing?

Differing circumstances, but one fact remains the same, when someone has a weapon, police will draw theirs and not because that person isn’t a threat to both officers and the public.

[Black Dog]

Please, explain a "general threat" and an "immediate threat".

You...you don't see the difference between "holding a knife" and, say, " lunging at someone with a knife?"

And... you own firearms?

Your obtuseness here is even more funny when you consider you posted the chart that cops use in training to determine the different levels of threat and the appropriate level of force with which to respond, which detailed precisely the distinction I'm talking about.

Differing circumstances, but one fact remains the same, when someone has a weapon, police will draw theirs and not because that person isn’t a threat to both officers and the public.

No shit Sherlock. But they aren't supposed to shoot unless "the subject exhibits actions that are intended to, or likely to, cause serious bodily harm or death to any person."

[Guest Derek L]

You...you don't see the difference between "holding a knife" and, say, " lunging at someone with a knife?"

And... you own firearms?

Your obtuseness here is even more funny when you consider you posted the chart that cops use in training to determine the different levels of threat and the appropriate level of force with which to respond, which detailed precisely the distinction I'm talking about.

So did the people aboard the streetcar rightfully think the young man a threat? Nothing obtuse about that question you appear to refuse to answer…..

No shit Sherlock. But they aren't supposed to shoot unless "the subject exhibits actions that are intended to, or likely to, cause serious bodily harm or death to any person."

And what would those actions be? Refusing police commands to drop the knife? Advancing towards officers perhaps?

Now did you actually read the chart I posted a few pages back, namely the portion allowing for lethal force?

[Black Dog]

So did the people aboard the streetcar rightfully think the young man a threat? Nothing obtuse about that question you appear to refuse to answer…..

Sorry, I must have missed the part where he was gunned down by people on the streetcar.

And what would those actions be? Refusing police commands to drop the knife? Advancing towards officers perhaps?

Are either of those actions likely to cause serious bodily harm or death to any person? No reasonable person would think so. (I also love the "advancing towards an officer" thing which in this case meant "crossing an arbitrary line some distance away from the officer." Reminds me of South Park's Uncle Jimbo: 'It's coming right for us!")

Now did you actually read the chart I posted a few pages back, namely the portion allowing for lethal force?

I did. i don't think you have, though.