Rue Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 The only one owed an apology is DOP. I have no problem apologizing to him. You on the other hand have made it crystal clear what you stand for and how you throw out denials and accusations against an entire people claiming it is pretexted and justified as discussion about Israel. There I trust that was short enough for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 No problem. Apology not needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 The only one owed an apology is DOP. I have no problem apologizing to him. If it works for you. I have no reason to apologize for his constant twisting of my words, no matter how many times I correct him. Even when I have corrected myself and apologize to him, it is still used against me. I've called a truce a couple times, only to get stabbed in the back by more word twisting and blatant trolling. And I had to laugh at his last attempt to make amends with me. You on the other hand have made it crystal clear what you stand for and how you throw out denials and accusations against an entire people claiming it is pretexted and justified as discussion about Israel. My stance is that I do not recognize Israel as a legitimate country. I don't apologize for it either. I have always gave my opinion on this matter. I at least backed up my claims with some historical context. I was taught in school that Israel came about because of the holocaust. Which is not correct, simply because the notion of a new Israel in Palestine predates that by about 2-3 decades. Palestinians do not want to live in Israel. They want to live in Palestine. If you deny them their right, then you are also denying the Jew's right to have a state. I am not for genocide, no matter how bad my words get twisted by some members here. There I trust that was short enough for you. Yes, and much more concise. Sometimes, less is more. I know a long diatribe offers some relief on your part, but it does not make for a good read. So back to the illegal Jewish settlements in the West Bank. When are they going to get dismantled? And how did the name 'West Bank' come into play when it is on the east side of Israel? Or does Israel consider it a land bank for them to take later? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 And how did the name 'West Bank' come into play when it is on the east side of Israel? Or does Israel consider it a land bank for them to take later? Read 'n learn... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea_and_Samaria_Area http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_occupation_of_the_West_Bank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Read 'n learn... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea_and_Samaria_Area http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_occupation_of_the_West_Bank read 'n learn... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 read 'n learn... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan Alexander the Great finished off the Phoenicians in 332 BC. The men were slaughtered and the women and children sent into slavery in Macedonia. Alexander dragged the last Phoenician leader, Batis, around the walls of Gaza as per Achilles. Now...you were saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I was taught in school that Israel came about because of the holocaust. What kind of school did you go to? Which is not correct, simply because the notion of a new Israel in Palestine predates that by about 2-3 decades. No, it predates it by much more than that. I am not for genocide, no matter how bad my words get twisted by some members here. What do you think would happen if Israel did not exist as a country? You don't recognize it's right to exist, have you given a moment to consider the consequences if your wish was granted? And how did the name 'West Bank' come into play when it is on the east side of Israel? Or does Israel consider it a land bank for them to take later? No mystery there. It is the area of land on the west bank of the Jordan river, hence the name. It pays to learn some basic facts like that before debating topics you have little knowledge of. This one can go in your file alongside claiming Israel has settlements in Gaza (when such settlements had long ago been dismantled). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 what about the egyptians? what about the philistines? they were also there before the israelites. it is ridiculous to use ancient connections to the land to justify forcibly pushing out another group and declaring ownership of their homes. i use the word connection, knowing that many of the european jews who moved to palestine as a result of the zionism, have less of a connection to ancient israelites and the land than the population that was already living there in the early 1900's, which was over 90% arab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 what about the egyptians? what about the philistines? they were also there before the israelites. it is ridiculous to use ancient connections to the land to justify forcibly pushing out another group and declaring ownership of their homes. i use the word connection, knowing that many of the european jews who moved to palestine as a result of the zionism, have less of a connection to ancient israelites and the land than the population that was already living there in the early 1900's, which was over 90% arab. History is history. It doesn't stop at a particular year just to suit one's tale. What happened...as I'm sure you well know...is that the Ottomans got themselves involved in numerous conflicts...being Imperial colonialists like everybody else. The Crimean War sucked the coffers dry and the Sultan needed money. So in 1858 the Ottoman Land Code was enacted which allowed the buying/selling/speculation of land in the Empire. This opened the doors for the Zionist Movement (et al) that started buying as much land as possible. At first contiguous...then anywhere it was possible. All fair 'n square. Usually at cut-throat rates being Jews 'n all. Arabs were also allowed to buy land but since this meant serving in the Ottoman military and paying property taxes, few bought land. Jews were exempt from military service which created a de facto vassal Jewish state on the ground starting well before 1948. Of course, when the Ottoman Empire fell in 1918, numerous nationalist and pan-Arabian movements...including your Palestinian Cause...all wanted a piece of the pie. Most got what they wanted minus the Zionists and the Grand Mufti al-Husseini's lot. Jordan...the so-called real Palestinian state...was run by Hashemites who were viewed as carpetbaggers by the al-Husseini crowd who wanted their own pan-Arabian state centered on Jerusalem. The Mufti had dumped a lot of his own personal fortune as well as funds solicited from around the globe into the restoration of the Temple Mount and other significant holy sites. This in hopes of promoting not only his personal connection to Mohammed (direct relative, apparently) but also al-Quds as the third most holy site in Islam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 What kind of school did you go to? Not a very good one obviously. No, it predates it by much more than that. Then that backs up my notion even more. What do you think would happen if Israel did not exist as a country? You don't recognize it's right to exist, have you given a moment to consider the consequences if your wish was granted? The Jews were driven out of that area centuries ago. And now they have returned. Even with all that against them they are still alive and well. They HAVE survived without a country for centuries. No mystery there. It is the area of land on the west bank of the Jordan river, hence the name. It pays to learn some basic facts like that before debating topics you have little knowledge of. This one can go in your file alongside claiming Israel has settlements in Gaza (when such settlements had long ago been dismantled). I would advise not using the Gaza thing again. I corrected myself multiple times, with another certain poster, I don't want to be doing it for you either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Ghost you miss the point entirely and I am not sure if that is just you being obstinate or genuine. The fact that oppression of Jews pre-dates the holocaust and is the precursor of the origins of Zionism, does not mean the holocaust as well added to the Zionist imperative. The two are not separated. They are part of the same phenomena that gave rise to Zionism as was the oppression of Jews in the Muslim world. In Jewish history the continuation of persecution in the Middle East and Europe since the days they left Israel is continuous-the holocaust was simply the culmination of the European anti-Semitic response to Jews-the Arab world dhimmitude phenomena was the other. Those two components have now fused into one. They fused when Nazis brought their version of anti-Semitism to the Middle East after the British and French brought their versions and it all morphed with the already existing Muslim concept of Jews sbeing inferior infidel.. Germans deliberately wanted to wipe out Jews as did the Mufti. The British and French looked at the Jews as a nuisance-a people who they could turn against Arabs to play the divide and conquer technique of colonialism. Now you talk about spinning things. How much more spinning can you do? What is this nonsense the Palestinians want to live in Palestine. stop playing The Palestinians believe Israel is part of Palestine. They do not consider the 85% of Palestine turned into the Palestinian state of Jordan legitimate any more than they do Israel. They once did consider Jordan their state, but after Arafat afwe Arafat was defeated in the Black Sabbath uprising then gave that notion up. He then began talking of Palestinians as a distinct nationality. Until then he would not use that word. The Mufti certainly didn't. Palestine to this day means to the PA,Hamas, Hezbollah and the 300 other factions of terrorists,as meaning Israel, Jordan and all of the West Bank. As for Israel being illegal that is typical of the revisionism you give history. Not even the UN believes that and the UN is as bias against Israel as it gets. Israel is a legal state. No one but you and the terrorists, Syria and Iran believe that. You are in good company. I love your moderate views. Edited February 17, 2014 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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