Vic Toews resigns from cabinet and retires from politics

[Moonlight Graham]

Public Safety Minister Vic Toews has announced that he is retiring from politics and will resign as a cabinet minister and as member of Parliament for Provencher effective Tuesday, ahead of what is expected to be a major cabinet shuffle this summer.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/07/08/pol-public-safety-minister-vic-toews-cabinet.html

Hopefully he is retiring from Cabinet at least in part because Harper was going to remove him from his cabinet position as Minister of Public Safety during the upcoming cabinet shuffle. Toews has, IMO, been the most horrendous cabinet minister in the Conservative government since becoming Public Safety Minister.

Highlights of Toews' disastrous reign:

- Supporting the CBSA in secretly recording (via audio and video) travellers in Canadian airports:

Canada's public safety minister has ordered the Canada Border Services Agency to halt audio monitoring of travellers until a privacy assessment can be completed.

The announcement follows concerns from the federal privacy commissioner's office about reports that the CBSA had installed cameras and microphones at the Macdonald-Cartier airport in Ottawa to watch and eavesdrop on travellers.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/06/19/pol-border-services-agency-eavesdropping-travellers-halt.html

- Wanting to make it lawful for the state to obtain internet user info from ISP's without a warrant:

Toews introduced the Protecting Children from Internet Predators Act (also known as Bill C-30).If passed, the bill would grant police agencies expanded powers, mandate that internet service providers (ISPs) provide subscriber information without a warrant and compel providers to reveal information transmitted over their networks with a warrant. When criticised about privacy concerns, Toews responded that people "can either stand with us or with the child pornographers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vic_Toews#Federal_Minister_of_Public_Safety

- Supporting a reality TV show Border Security broadcasting immigration raids without the subjects' consent, amongst other concerns with their support for this show. http://www.amnesty.ca/news/open-letters/open-letter-to-the-honourable-vic-toews

Edited July 13, 2013 by Moonlight Graham

[dre]

Yeah this guy is a real scumbag. Loved when he called us all pedophile supporters when people got outraged about his idiotic internet surveillance act.

Edited July 13, 2013 by dre

[Wild Bill]

Yeah this guy is a real scumbag. Loved when he called us all pedophile supporters when people got outraged about his idiotic internet surveillance act.

I never liked Vic but he wasn't a "real scumbag". A dillhole maybe, of the first degree, but not a scumbag.

He was just one of those guys who thought that being emphatic could substitute for being right! IOW, if he smashed that square peg into the round hole it would fit because dammit! It was SUPPOSED to fit!

To me at least, a scumbag is dishonest and perhaps even evil. Vic wasn't one of those things, at least in intent.

Still, I always felt that the result of his approach WAS evil because he had no respect for the views of others and was frankly, a bit too dim to properly think out his own values.

I guess the word I am searching for is "righteousness". Righteous people have always scared me because if in their world view it is necessary they would cut off YOUR arm!

I think Vic had the misfortune to be raised by one of those evangelical churches. I am not attacking Christianity but we all know that some churches do have a streak of "righteousness". Worse yet, they think their way is the only way and that they "know it all" already.

Good hearts but bone heads!

I have similar views towards many lefties. I never liked the EFFECTS of Jack Layton's approaches to government but I always felt he was at heart a good person. I felt the same way about Bob Rae. He never wanted to destroy Ontario's economy when he was premier. I don't believe he and his NDP party had a "secret agenda". He and his people were just inexperienced and unprepared for government and did some bonehead things. Other NDP provincial governments such as in Winnipeg or lately, Nova Scotia, have done quite well. So the difference obviously must be the people involved and not the name of the party.

So I will not call Vic evil or dishonest. I am sure you could forget your wallet on the table and Vic would not steal it.

That being said, I am very, very glad he is gone.

Now his peer Julian Fantino - I suspect he IS evil! Certainly, he is dictatorial and shows no respect for the rights of ALL Canadians!

[margrace]

I never understood why Harper championed people such as Fantino, he is a very sociopathic personality.

[Moonlight Graham]

I never understood why Harper championed people such as Fantino, he is a very sociopathic personality.

Fantino is a corrupt SOB. Why they have an ex-cop as Minister of International Cooperation is beyond me. I'm guessing he knows close to zero about international development or foreign affairs...I doubt he learned much working for only a few months as Associate Minister of National Defence. If this guy is Toews' replacement we're not any better off.

[Guest Derek L]

Fantino is a corrupt SOB. Why they have an ex-cop as Minister of International Cooperation is beyond me. I'm guessing he knows close to zero about international development or foreign affairs...I doubt he learned much working for only a few months as Associate Minister of National Defence. If this guy is Toews' replacement we're not any better off.

I’m not exactly a “fan” of Fantino, but I fail to see how his prior work experience can preclude him for a certain cabinet position…….Mackay is arguably the most effective and popular MND the Canadian Forces have had since Andrew McNaughton…….yet he’s a lawyer.

[Wild Bill]

I’m not exactly a “fan” of Fantino, but I fail to see how his prior work experience can preclude him for a certain cabinet position…….Mackay is arguably the most effective and popular MND the Canadian Forces have had since Andrew McNaughton…….yet he’s a lawyer.

Derek, the big problem I have with Fantino is how he handled the Caledonia native protest. He basically let the natives do whatever the hell they wanted and then defended them against any reaction by the townspeople, for political expediency.

In effect, he took the protection of Law away from an entire town!

If you are not already aware, you might do some googling. There was also an excellent book by the journalist Christie Blatchford.

I have a relative who is an OPP cop stationed in the Caledonia area. He was there from the start and some of the things he told me would curl your hair. He also confirmed to me, personally but of course, privately, that he and the other cops were under specific orders to allow the natives free rein and to blow off any townsfolk complaints. Unless there was an actual threat of loss of life (and even that was rather vaguely defined) the police were not to intervene.

The man put in charge by Dalton McGuinty was Julian Fantino.

In my opinion, the man applied justice according to race and had no problems with throwing all the townspeople under the bus.

His actions were dispicable.

Harper and his crew, being westerners, almost certainly had absolutely no idea of what was going on at Caledonia and looked at Fantino as a "law and order" candidate. To many of us here in Ontario Harper could not possibly have made a worse choice.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Wild Bill

[Moonlight Graham]

I’m not exactly a “fan” of Fantino, but I fail to see how his prior work experience can preclude him for a certain cabinet position…….

Yes I know, Canada's federal ministerial/cabinet positions often aren't held by people who have any previous experience in their field. Our system of government is odd to say the least.

Mackay is arguably the most effective and popular MND the Canadian Forces have had since Andrew McNaughton

Most effective? Ridiculous. And popular with who?

[Guest Derek L]

Yes I know, Canada's federal ministerial/cabinet positions often aren't held by people who have any previous experience in their field. Our system of government is odd to say the least.

How is that odd? Aside from political expediency, their role is one of management of both people & money, ensuring the carrying out of the elected Government’s policies…..We don’t expect the MND to lead troops in battle or the Minster of Public safety to kick down the door of a grow-op.

Most effective? Ridiculous.

I base my assessment on his record…..during his tenure we secured several big-ticket procurement projects, from order to initial delivery, completed a successful combat mission in Libya well also completing our combat mission in Afghanistan, have had several major domestic operations……coupled with his involvement in several other procurement programs started under prior Governments that will have a major impact for not only the Canadian Forces, but Canadian industry.

I can't think of another minister with such a record since the war. Care to name one?

And popular with who?

The members of the Canadian Forces and many in the Conservative Party.

[Guest Derek L]

Derek, the big problem I have with Fantino is how he handled the Caledonia native protest. He basically let the natives do whatever the hell they wanted and then defended them against any reaction by the townspeople, for political expediency.

In effect, he took the protection of Law away from an entire town!

If you are not already aware, you might do some googling. There was also an excellent book by the journalist Christie Blatchford.

I have a relative who is an OPP cop stationed in the Caledonia area. He was there from the start and some of the things he told me would curl your hair. He also confirmed to me, personally but of course, privately, that he and the other cops were under specific orders to allow the natives free rein and to blow off any townsfolk complaints. Unless there was an actual threat of loss of life (and even that was rather vaguely defined) the police were not to intervene.

The man put in charge by Dalton McGuinty was Julian Fantino.

In my opinion, the man applied justice according to race and had no problems with throwing all the townspeople under the bus.

His actions were dispicable.

Harper and his crew, being westerners, almost certainly had absolutely no idea of what was going on at Caledonia and looked at Fantino as a "law and order" candidate. To many of us here in Ontario Harper could not possibly have made a worse choice.

But according to Moonlight Graham, if I'm understanding him correctly, Fantino would make the perfect Minister of Public Safety..........

With that said.....My money is on Shelly Glover to replace Vic.....So should Moonlight Graham?

[Wild Bill]

But according to Moonlight Graham, if I'm understanding him correctly, Fantino would make the perfect Minister of Public Safety..........

With that said.....My money is on Shelly Glover to replace Vic.....So should Moonlight Graham?

At Caledonia, Fantino only acted for the safety of the natives. Townsfolk were often the victims of intimidation and outright violence. One old man was whalloped with a 2x4 and left with permanent brain damage.

So Fantino's idea of Public Safety specifically exempted the townsfolk of Caledonia.

[Guest Derek L]

At Caledonia, Fantino only acted for the safety of the natives. Townsfolk were often the victims of intimidation and outright violence. One old man was whalloped with a 2x4 and left with permanent brain damage.

So Fantino's idea of Public Safety specifically exempted the townsfolk of Caledonia.

I don't know the story Bill, but I'll assume Fantino was acting on orders from up the food chain......no doubt politics played into it.

[WWWTT]

At Caledonia, Fantino only acted for the safety of the natives. Townsfolk were often the victims of intimidation and outright violence. One old man was whalloped with a 2x4 and left with permanent brain damage.

So Fantino's idea of Public Safety specifically exempted the townsfolk of Caledonia.

I notice that you are very nostalgic of the past to the point of infatuation.

WWWTT

[Wild Bill]

I notice that you are very nostalgic of the past to the point of infatuation.

WWWTT

I am stating that Fantino did not respect the idea that the law should not be racially applied and that the protection of the law is something that EVERY Canadian is entitled to receive!

I described EXACTLY what happened! Fantino was an enthusiastic enforcer of this travesty.

You are entitled to a differing opinion but you don't have to convince me. Why don't you go to Caledonia, sit in a Timmy's and listen to the bitterness?

You have an entire town who experienced what Fantino did that you have to convince.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Wild Bill

[jacee]

At Caledonia, Fantino only acted for the safety of the natives. Townsfolk were often the victims of intimidation and outright violence. One old man was whalloped with a 2x4 and left with permanent brain damage.

An "old man" in his 50's who was crushing a teenager's windpipe.

That said, Fantino's well past his best before date, if he ever had one.

[Wild Bill]

An "old man" in his 50's who was crushing a teenager's windpipe.

That said, Fantino's well past his best before date, if he ever had one.

"crushing a teenager's windpipe"? Out of what butt did you pull that one?

Got a cite for that? You are directly contradicting everything that has been reported in the MSM and offered in the courtroom during the trial.

So I ask you again to support your claim.

[guyser]

"crushing a teenager's windpipe"? Out of what butt did you pull that one?

Got a cite for that? You are directly contradicting everything that has been reported in the MSM and offered in the courtroom during the trial.

So I ask you again to support your claim.

Would it not be fair to post this as a response?

Why should I bother?

You won't accept it anyway. Goes against your catechism.

This is pointless. Like arguing with a Jehovah Witness.

Probably not, but goose gander and all that .

[Guest Derek L]

Him Steven Blaney to replace Vic.......never saw that coming.

[Wild Bill]

Would it not be fair to post this as a response?

Probably not, but goose gander and all that .

Exactly! Smell the irony?

It's the same old, same old.

Like I keep saying, with some folks it's like arguing with a Jehovah Witness. Sooner or later you realize that nothing you can say or no evidence you could ever show would make the slightest bit of difference in changing their minds.

However, they can and do at any time pull something out of their butts that is either not relevant or totally unsubstantiated and they demand that you swallow it whole, on the spot.

It's as if their brain is hardwired.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not their own set of facts.

It's actually my fault. I knew what would happen and I wasted my time anyway.

I should have just ignored the postings.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Wild Bill

[guyser]

Exactly! Smell the irony?

The irony that you did the same , as in pulled out of butt, in another thread and now its turned on you and you dont like it?

Yeah....I smell it.

[Wild Bill]

The irony that you did the same , as in pulled out of butt, in another thread and now its turned on you and you dont like it?

Yeah....I smell it.

"Not like it?" I knew exactly what I did when I did it and was waiting to see specifically WHO would pick up on it!

What I am smelling is a whole bunch of "rabble" style debaters. I am beginning to think this board has gone so far as to just not be worth it anymore. I had hoped for more when I came back.

I don't demand any changes. A group is what it is and I understand that I and a few others are the exceptions. Up until a few years ago it was different.

I don't enjoy debaters who make personal attack style rebuttals. I do not find those of "righteous" views entertaining. Perhaps I can find a board where people are more polite and informed with their arguments.

MLW seems to be getting to be more and more of a "rabble" board of symbolism over substance, with a lot of shouting.

Perhaps if I just reduce my posting to an absolute minimum posters like yourself can avoid getting upset with someone who doesn't share the same views.

I may not totally leave. If I stick just to the science and tech threads I seem to upset far fewer people.

I wonder why that is so? I suspect that the only people who know the answer are the ones who participate in the science and tech threads!

[The_Squid]

An "old man" in his 50's who was crushing a teenager's windpipe.

That said, Fantino's well past his best before date, if he ever had one.

That's a load of crap. He beat a defenceless man until he was nearly dead. His lawyer didn't even claim this as a defence! Not sure where you got this information...

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/12/23/native-attacker-given-reduced-sentence-for-vicious-caledonia-assault/

[Moonlight Graham]

How is that odd? Aside from political expediency, their role is one of management of both people & money, ensuring the carrying out of the elected Government’s policies…..We don’t expect the MND to lead troops in battle or the Minster of Public safety to kick down the door of a grow-op.

Well, at least in a US-style system of government, unlike our Westminster-style system, they have more separation of powers in that system and the President is able to choose whomever he feels is most qualified in the entire country to be in his cabinet and isn't confined to choosing people sitting in the legislature (Congress). Therefore he/she can actually choose ie: someone with health field expertise as the 'Secretary of Health and Human Services', or a top scientist as head of the Environmental Protection Agency. These seems far more sensible to me.

[Guest Derek L]

Well, at least in a US-style system of government, unlike our Westminster-style system, they have more separation of powers in that system and the President is able to choose whomever he feels is most qualified in the entire country to be in his cabinet and isn't confined to choosing people sitting in the legislature (Congress). Therefore he/she can actually choose ie: someone with health field expertise as the 'Secretary of Health and Human Services', or a top scientist as head of the Environmental Protection Agency. These seems far more sensible to me.

Ahh, but the President can't choose anyone he desires since they have to be confirmed by the Senate.....Now if his party controls the Senate, that is more the case, but if not........

Edited July 16, 2013 by Derek L

[Moonlight Graham]

Ahh, but the President can't choose anyone he desires since they have to be confirmed by the Senate.....Now if his party controls the Senate, that is more the case, but if not........

But that's good, it's part of that system's checks and balances. The President usually gets whom he wants though unless it's a controversial pick. But that isn't my point. My point is the POTUS (confirmed by the Senate) is able to choose the people with the most expertise and qualifications in the country to be in specific cabinet roles (though in many cases the POTUS doesn't do that lol, but the choice is there). In Canada, our Ministers usually have to learn on-the-job, and the few years they're usually in their Cabinet roles isn't a replacement for decades of education and experience.