Liberals buy union votes with taxpayers' cash in elementary teache

[PIK]

So we lost out to the unions again. Teacher get everything back and we are on the hook again. The libs(and the teachers) are laughing at us all.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/06/13/liberals-buy-union-votes-with-taxpayers-cash-in-elementary-teachers-deal

Congratulations. You’ve been successfully blackmailed.

Education Minister Liz Sandals released details of the deal hammered out between the government and the Elementary Teachers’ Federation of Ontario (ETFO) Thursday.

Did I say hammered?

More like spoon-fed.

The government’s given the union just about everything they want.

First, they’re giving them back the 2% raise ETFO forfeited in the last round of bargaining because they were intransigent bullies.

Where other unions were more reasonable and signed on the dotted line, ETFO held out.

As a result, they didn’t get the same hike the other unions got for signing on early.

Any teacher will tell you when you reward the bad kids, you end up with chaos in the classroom.

The government didn’t just give away the house and the farm, they gave the teachers the barn and the cows.

It’s going to cost us — big time.

[Michael Hardner]

The editorial doesn't seem to think that the ending of banked sick days was much of a victory, but many do.

(Also - this 6 months at 90% off sounds like LTD to me.)

In the end, even if the government wins big concessions papers like the Sun will whine that it's not enough. We know where they want this to go, where it always goes, to no union, minimum wage - really that's the goal of any organization ie. to reduce costs.

But, it's not going to happen. The government won this fight, but if the Sun isn't happy then really they may never be.

[Boges]

Why is the choice always union jobs with unrealistic benefits or minimum wage jobs with none?

Most people are somewhere in between.

What bothers me about this deal is the 2% "catchup".

At the beginning of the economic meltdown this government offered 12% over 4 years. All the other unions took it, but this union, ETFO, turned it down.

Wynne, the education minister at the time, called their bluff and they had to settle for 10%.

This deal rewards them retroactively for their bully tactics.

[Michael Hardner]

This deal rewards them retroactively for their bully tactics.

It's a negotiation and they settled. Doesn't seem like bullying to me - after all they were handed the ultimatum.

[Mighty AC]

I'm not sure how this could be viewed as a win by the unions. The end of banked sick days and slightly fewer total sick days was a big, important and necessary concession. I was annoyed by the ETFO antics during the negotiation process, but government did what was right (IMO), stuck to their guns and trimmed costs. Now they have to mend working relationships. To be punitive would be irresponsible and hurt education.

Time to build bridges as more cost cutting will be necessary 4 years from now. Every year the ratio of the working to retired gets smaller and smaller.

[Keepitsimple]

Look for the Working Families Coalition (Teacher's Union) to be spending another couple of million to demonize the Conservatives and try to keep the Liberals in power. Now THERE'S an affront to democracy......unions effectively campaigning on behalf of a political party without it counting against Liberal campaign dspending. That's why unions have to be regulated for transparency so the public knows the score. Itr's disgusting.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Keepitsimple

[waldo]

Look for the Working Families Coalition (Teacher's Union) to be spending another couple of million to demonize the Conservatives and try to keep the Liberals in power. Now THERE'S an affront to democracy......unions effectively campaigning on behalf of a political party without it counting against Liberal campaign dspending. That's why unions have to be regulated for transparency so the public knows the score. Itr's disgusting.

huh! Hey now Simple... are you purposely eliminating the Ontario Nurses Association from the coalition it's a part of? Transparency??? The amount the coalition spent in the 2011 election campaign is known... how did that happen? My understanding is that, per the allowed rules, the coalition has always properly registered under the Ontario Election Finances Act... and it has always properly filed related (audited) Elections Financing Reports detailing advertising expenses... and it has always properly included Statements of Authorization within all its advertising (identifying it is the source of the advertising). Is there a problem? Of course, Simple... this is the same avenue available to and the exact same rules that Ontario corporations are subject to. Is there a problem?

but hey now, there's been a progressive series of lost cases (initiated by the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party) intending to show the coalition is nothing but an 'illegal Liberal front group'... it lost before the Ontario Chief Elections Officer... it lost before the Ontario Divisional Court... and it lost a unanimous ruling before the Ontario Court of Appeal. Do you view these rulings an, as you say, "affront to democracy"?

Simple, you say, "it's disgusting". Really? Why so? Because you don't care for the party the coalition has chosen to spend advertising dollars promoting? Is that it Simple?

[DFCaper]

huh! Hey now Simple... are you purposely eliminating the Ontario Nurses Association from the coalition it's a part of? Transparency??? The amount the coalition spent in the 2011 election campaign is known... how did that happen? My understanding is that, per the allowed rules, the coalition has always properly registered under the Ontario Election Finances Act... and it has always properly filed related (audited) Elections Financing Reports detailing advertising expenses... and it has always properly included Statements of Authorization within all its advertising (identifying it is the source of the advertising). Is there a problem? Of course, Simple... this is the same avenue available to and the exact same rules that Ontario corporations are subject to. Is there a problem?

but hey now, there's been a progressive series of lost cases (initiated by the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party) intending to show the coalition is nothing but an 'illegal Liberal front group'... it lost before the Ontario Chief Elections Officer... it lost before the Ontario Divisional Court... and it lost a unanimous ruling before the Ontario Court of Appeal. Do you view these rulings an, as you say, "affront to democracy"?

Simple, you say, "it's disgusting". Really? Why so? Because you don't care for the party the coalition has chosen to spend advertising dollars promoting? Is that it Simple?

So are you advocating that it is right that special interest groups should be allowed to use unlimited funds for please political campaining? That it would be okay for the oil changed industry to spend millions or even billions on slamming environmental groups during campaigns, as long as it is done within the current laws?

I personally think that allowing this behavior of these unions and of big business in campaigns need to change. Surprised you don't, or you only do when conservatives lose at it?

[waldo]

So are you advocating that it is right that special interest groups should be allowed to use unlimited funds for please political campaining?

no - within a legal and transparent context, I was responding to MLW member 'Simple's nonsense.

That it would be okay for the oil changed industry to spend millions or even billions on slamming environmental groups during campaigns, as long as it is done within the current laws?

no - BigOil shouldn't get in the way of Harper Conservatives charge against "enemies of the state"!

I personally think that allowing this behavior of these unions and of big business in campaigns need to change. Surprised you don't, or you only do when conservatives lose at it?

hey now! Let's bring in something intended to counter political parties reliance on 3rd party contributions... something like the per-vote subsidy on the federal level. Oh... wait...

[scribblet]

Look for the Working Families Coalition (Teacher's Union) to be spending another couple of million to demonize the Conservatives and try to keep the Liberals in power. Now THERE'S an affront to democracy......unions effectively campaigning on behalf of a political party without it counting against Liberal campaign dspending. That's why unions have to be regulated for transparency so the public knows the score. Itr's disgusting.

Yes, this group is a front for the Liberals and campaign on their behalf. They object to being depicted as such though and have recently sent a cease and desist letter to Hudak.

It's a good way to circumvent the Ontario Elections Act and they get away with it.

[waldo]

Yes, this group is a front for the Liberals and campaign on their behalf. They object to being depicted as such though and have recently sent a cease and desist letter to Hudak.

It's a good way to circumvent the Ontario Elections Act and they get away with it.

no - you're absolutely wrong... just another of your continuing stream of fabrications!

there's been a progressive series of lost cases (initiated by the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party) intending to show the coalition is nothing but an 'illegal Liberal front group'... it lost before the Ontario Chief Elections Officer... it lost before the Ontario Divisional Court... and it lost a unanimous ruling before the Ontario Court of Appeal.

and no, you're wrong again... the coalition has been in full compliance with the Ontario Elections Act:

...per the allowed rules, the coalition has always properly registered under the Ontario Election Finances Act... and it has always properly filed related (audited) Elections Financing Reports detailing advertising expenses... and it has always properly included Statements of Authorization within all its advertising (identifying it is the source of the advertising).

[scribblet]

Look for the Working Families Coalition (Teacher's Union) to be spending another couple of million to demonize the Conservatives and try to keep the Liberals in power. Now THERE'S an affront to democracy......unions effectively campaigning on behalf of a political party without it counting against Liberal campaign dspending. That's why unions have to be regulated for transparency so the public knows the score. Itr's disgusting.

This is from 2011 talking about their 'end run' around the elections act which they are getting away with.

No doubt they are an unethical union-backed Ontario Liberal Party front who have nothing to do with regular working families (well, not those kind of 'families')...

http://ogca.ca/working-families-coalition-does-an-end-run-on-elections-finances-act/

and here

http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/christina_blizzard/2011/03/04/17500486.html

OK, let's call this coalition what it is: A union-backed group that spends big bucks to push the Liberal agenda and uses negative ads to attack the Tories.

Here's the Oscar message in part:

"We've built a province that's the envy of many. But special interests are planning to use our provincial elections to reverse our progress," said the voiceover.

Of course, their version of "special interests" doesn't include powerful unions that do business with the province but who masquerade as just your average guy at election time.

[waldo]

No doubt they are an unethical union-backed Ontario Liberal Party front

no, again... Hudak and the Progressive Conservatives have lost 3 straight cases:

there's been a progressive series of lost cases (initiated by the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party) intending to show the coalition is nothing but an 'illegal Liberal front group'... it lost before the Ontario Chief Elections Officer... it lost before the Ontario Divisional Court... and it lost a unanimous ruling before the Ontario Court of Appeal.

Ontario Tories lose legal fight to Working Families coalition of unions

The Progressive Conservatives have lost a major legal battle in their long-running war with the Working Families coalition of unions.

Claims by the Tories that the group is a Liberal front were rejected by the Ontario Court of Appeal last Thursday.

“They lost before the chief elections officer; secondly, they lost before the Ontario Divisional Court; and now they’ve lost before a unanimous Court of Appeal.

The Conservatives still face the possibility of having to pay up to $100,000 in the unions’ legal costs.

[Keepitsimple]

The reason the court cases against the "Working Families Coalition" was lost was that there was no proof that any funding went from the Liberal Party to the Unions.......and I doubt that there WAS any money. Nonetheless, it's a travesty in that it's obvious that the quid pro quo has cost Ontarians literally billions over the years. In the case of teachers - those billions could have been spent on real advancements in the classroom - or capital funding for aging schools.

There are thousands of teaching grads who can't find work. When supply is greater than demand, there's supposed to be a moderatng effect on wages....but with Unions in bed with the government, the Fox is running the Chicken Coop. McGuilty as charged.

[Boges]

What the PCs need to do is getting Big Oil behind them I suppose.

It'll be interesting to see how the WFC attack the Tories in the next election. They came out in full force against the Liberals in a Bi election in K-Dub.

I believe there's also a court case pending on the implementation of Bill 115.

They stand to look a bit hypocritical if they start campaigning for the Liberals now.

[Mighty AC]

Is telling unions what they want to hear any different than telling religious groups what they want to hear? Politicians love sheeple wherever they can get them.

[scribblet]

The reason the court cases against the "Working Families Coalition" was lost was that there was no proof that any funding went from the Liberal Party to the Unions.......and I doubt that there WAS any money. Nonetheless, it's a travesty in that it's obvious that the quid pro quo has cost Ontarians literally billions over the years. In the case of teachers - those billions could have been spent on real advancements in the classroom - or capital funding for aging schools.

There are thousands of teaching grads who can't find work.................

I doubt the Liberal party actually gave money to the Unions also. WFC was started by some unions, which included, const. trades, nurses and teachers but a couple of teacher unions may not back the Liberals now. The WFC spends millions on attack ads and according to the P.C.s they spent $2.1 million on attack ads during last year's election.

I think the candidate can spend something likea $1.19 per no. of electors, so should there also be limits on third parties in order to level the playing field ?

I guess it begs the question, should third parties be subject to spending limits during a campaign ?

Edited June 17, 2013 by scribblet

[Keepitsimple]

In the next election, I'd like to see the Tories go after the Working Families Coalition - with attack ads. The attack ad would start with "No doubt you've been viewing attack ads from the WFC that take aim at the Conservative party and it's hard-working members.....it's time to shine the light on who the WFC is......they are the big unions - unions who have benefitted from the McGuinty/Wynne approach to governing - tax and spend. While hard-working Ontarians have gone with little or no increases in their take home pay - here's a list of these unions and the raises they have accumulated since the Liberal government came to power (Start scrolling):

Working Families Coalition - they want more of the same.

It's time to say "enough is enough"

It's time for a change

[Boges]

In the next election, I'd like to see the Tories go after the Working Families Coalition - with attack ads. The attack ad would start with "No doubt you've been viewing attack ads from the WFC that take aim at the Conservative party and it's hard-working members.....it's time to shine the light on who the WFC is......they are the big unions - unions who have benefitted from the McGuinty/Wynne approach to governing - tax and spend. While hard-working Ontarians have gone with little or no increases in their take home pay - here's a list of these unions and the raises they have accumulated since the Liberal government came to power (Start scrolling):

Working Families Coalition - they want more of the same.

It's time to say "enough is enough"

It's time for a change

Or saying the Working Families Coalition is funded by teachers unions. Here are some of the things teachers unions have said about the current Liberal Government.

Then list some of the nasty things they said about the Liberals when they had a temper tantrum last summer over Bill 115 trying to win the K-Dub seat.

Then say "Would you vote for a party, who's supporters don't even like them?"

[Topaz]

Seems like this "union" was created because of the PC, the harris era and we all know that conservatives are for the business sector and not for workers, so can one blame them?? It's very tough to fight against corporations, if one has a party in power against workers.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I was surprised about 2% gain.

The real travesty is not unions fighting for their workers benefits, compensation and working conditions.

The real travesty is how the public simply accepts that corporations no longer share their record profits in the form of increased benefits, compensation and working conditions with their workers.

The slant put on these stories by the media corporations to support their bretheren is simply to get people to come to terms with the fact that they are paid less and to hate someone who makes more instead of the corporation who refuses to raise wages.

[Shady]

It's an incestuous relationship between the left and public sector unions. They promise more pay and benefits, in return the unions promise their voting support. Meanwhile, John and Jane Q. Taxpayer get to pick up the tab.

[margrace]

Just like a lot of other stupid arguments on here.We don't need laws re zoning that would stop floods, we don't need laws that protect ordinary man and give him a decent wage, we don't need laws to protect us from the greed of the big companies and their share holders. Kick the little man down and keep him there, don't allow unions this just makes him to uppidy for his own good.

[jacee]

It's odd that people assume the WFC and unions support the Liberals.

[Boges]

It's odd that people assume the WFC and unions support the Liberals.

Evidence would indicate that's their party of choice.

If they're backed by the teachers, up until this past year, the teacher's unions got pretty much everything they wanted.